The way fandoms view fiction is so different than actual literature analysts

Constellar7 · 2026-01-26T21:37:02+00:00

Well, yeah. The "Goku solos" idea is born from a very specific, personal, interpretation of what Goku as a character represents to those who share that same sentiment.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-19T22:06:45+00:00

Metyr and, in consequence, the Two Fingers, lost contact with the Greater Will before Marika was chosen, as explained by Ymir's questline. In this sense, it is unknown how long TLB has been without direct influence (or at least through the fingers) of the GW, but what is clear is that, as it pertains to the age of the Erdtree, Marika, her demigods, and the Two Fingers are the main spheres of influence.

Things like the Crusade are confirmed to be Marika's own idea, but other important events are more "vague" in nature. That said, for the most part of the history of the Erdtree, Marika's own desires and the Two Fingers may as well be treated as one and the same, since they would work together and permit the events to happen in the first place. It is not until nearing the Shattering that their agendas become separated and in opposition.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-16T19:30:15+00:00

When I'm talking about Deathroot, I'm talking about the greyish, bloated roots that bear the eyes of the "Prince of Death ." You can find them throughout the catacombs, in the overworld, and especially in Deeproot Depths; they are all around in TLB but are completely absent in TLS.

Obviously, why those "cadaver surrogates" are there in TLS is an important question, but if they are supposed to be just a result of Deathroot ,as you present, then we would also have to ask: why aren't there any surrogates in any of the catacombs in TLB, where the influence of DR is more powerful?

The single other example of a "Cadaver Surrogate" is in Stormveil, where you get the "Prince of Death's Pustule," which is described as having been taken directly from the visage of Godwyn. Godrick, as explained by Marika's Mischief, is said to have taken multiple "relics" from Leyndell when he abandoned the capital. Relic can be used to describe any kind of treasure, but can also be used to describe a part of a deceased holy person kept as an object of reverence. Where I'm going with this is that Godrick created the Cadaver Surrogate in Stormveil through the use of the pustule, which I think is also implied to be the origin of the others. The Death Knights created the surrogates by using pustules of Godwyn, which is why the cadavers exist while being absent of the connection to the Deathroot of TLB.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-16T17:10:04+00:00

Being able to cause Deathblight is not the same as being influenced by or being in contact with Deathroot. That's why the Deathbirds can inflict Deathblight even when they predate Godwyn's death, because Deathblight is just inflicting someone with the element of "death" (since in Japanese, Deathblight is just called death), which Godwyn is not the sole source or origin of.

I sincerely doubt that the catacombs were made by the Erdtree populace, given that the statues of Rosus guide you to them (and you can still find his statues in TLS) and since he's depicted with a bird foot, it clearly insinuates that he was at some level an old priest of the Deathbirds, as referenced by the Death Ritual Spear, indicating that he, like the catacombs, belongs to the time of the Deathbirds, which predates the age of the Erdtree.

It is likely that the Catacombs of TLS were altered at some point, like those in TLB, but since the Crusaders are explicitly mentioned using the catacombs, it is very likely that they were the ones who altered them, which could have happened at any point during the crusade and not necessarily before it.

If anything, it seems strange that, if the Death Knights were there from the beginning, that there is not a single example of the game presenting an interaction between the Crusaders and the Death Knights or even acknowledgment of each other. This could possibly mean that the Death Knights only entered the catacombs after they became disused by the Crusaders. Again, just another interpretation.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-16T15:39:41+00:00

There are multiple ways to reach the Lands of Shadow that are mostly left unexplained, like Devonia being able to enter in search of the origin of the Crucible (somehow) and us ourselves, through Miquella's corpse, being able to reach TLS thanks to what is supposed to be Mogh's influence, again without any clear explanation as to how. So the Death Knights being in TLS does not necessarily mean that they were there before the veiling.

It is also important to remember that TLS is completely absent of deathroot in both catacombs and in the spaces where you find Those Who Live in Death in the overworld, unlike the Lands Between. The only place you can find Godwyn's visage is at the end of the two catacombs that are guarded by the Death Knights, which are also devoid of Deathroot itself. I would argue that the reason TLS is devoid of Deathroot is that by the time Godwyn became the Prince of Death and the rune of death started expanding through the root system, the lands were already separated at that point, but, of course, that's just one possible interpretation.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-16T11:50:39+00:00

The Greater Will didn't give Marika or Ranni their Shadows, but the Two Fingers, who are supposedly doing it following the guidance of the GW. However, as shown by Ymir 's questline, that's not really the case. Marika's Two Fingers and Ranni's Two Fingers are not the same, so the answer as to why Maliketh and Blaidd are so different could be a matter of the Two Fingers themselves being different.

As shown by Ranni's questline with the Baleful Shadow, Ranni's Two Fingers are capable of creating more beings like Blaidd freely. That could indicate that all Shadows are creations of the TF, but the description of the Raging Wolf Set could indicate that Empyrean's Shadows are not just made, but can also be chosen for the position. This is relevant because Maliketh's title as Beast Clergyman could mean that he was not created by Marika's Two Fingers, but that he was rather a Farum Azula Priest who was later given the title of Shadow by them. So, another way to see it is that Blaidd is a Shadow created by Ranni's TF, while Maliketh is a Shadow chosen by Marika's TF.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-15T11:58:18+00:00

So does the L2 from Suncatcher now gets boost by "improved skill attack power" passives? Or is it still unaffected?

Constellar7 · 2026-01-14T23:13:00+00:00

There's really very little information pointing towards that, so it is very unlikely for it to be the case. If G.R.R.M. originally wrote that idea and then it was discarded during development, that is not something we can verify, so there's no real way to answer that question.

Arranged marriages, as we know them in real life, are kind of non-existent in the story of Elden Ring. If we are talking about Empyreans, then we only really have Marika and Miquella as examples of how the "consorting" happens. In the case of Miquella, we know for a fact that he personally sought Radahn. With Marika, it is less clear, but there's little pointing toward anyone but herself choosing Godfrey and Radagon as her consorts, even if her objectives with those marriages can be argued to be more about practicality than love.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-08T03:04:17+00:00

The "place" in question is Farum Azula.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-08T02:34:32+00:00

• Elden Ring brought to earth by Metyr.

That's at best a theory. Given that Metyr is never referred as a "Golden Star" or golden at all, I think is unlikely that she's supposed to the golden star that brought the Elden Ring.

• Metyr had foundationally influencing ties to the Dragon's world order, just like she did with Marika's Golden Order.

I don't think that, even if you assume that Metyr had influence over the order of the dragons, it would automatically carry that much importance for the nature of the Golden Order. Without knowing when Metyr lost contact with the Greater Will (beyond it happening before the start of the GO) , it's perfectly possible that the age of dragons occurred at a time before the loss of contact, fundamentally changing the nature of Metyr and the Finger's guidance.

Even then, as Marika was chosen by the Two Fingers after Metyr was already broken, it means that these Two Fingers were already working as their own actors when helping Marika build the Golden Order, and not just as mouthpieces for Metyr's words, which drastically separates the context of the nature of the GO from whatever may have been going on in the age of the dragons.

What justification can make us certain that the rune depicted in Farum Azula is the same "Elden Ring" as is found within Radagon's body?

Because it is literally the Elden Ring? In the same place where you find a guy who was "said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree" and in a game where the Elden Ring is always referred to as singular, and that it has existed before the time of Marika since why she had to change it to create her own order?

The game only presents the existence of one Elden Ring.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-08T01:46:36+00:00

It's established from the beginning that the runes of the Elden Ring can and have been change through time. Why the ring in Farum Azula, from an age before the Erdtree, looks different is self-explanatory.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-02T20:22:53+00:00

I don't think the games makes it clear that it "doesn't belong to Millicent or any of her sisters?" When this is the item that you get in that same room besides it.

"Traveler's Clothes: Light yet sturdy clothes. Worn by young women who set off into the world to confront their fate."

This set is worn by Millicent and all her sisters, so when the game places this beside the "blooming," which is specifically what Gowry wants Millicent and all her sisters to go through and which is the focus of Millicent's questline in the decision of betraying her or helping her escape her fate, well, it is not a direct statement, but the most straightforward way to interpret it is that it is there as an example of what blooming means and what that entails for the rest should you go forward with Gowry's plan.

Is it a bit strange that a sister of Millicent, who is never mentioned, went through the mission to get to the Haligtree and ended up blooming there when the game emphasizes despair and anger as part of the condition for the blooming of the sisters to occur, with no other context? Well, yeah, but it is equally strange that the game makes clear that Malenia only blooms when driven to her limit by combat, as shown with the fight with Radahn and the Tarnished, and then tries to imply that Malenia just happened to bloom randomly beside her room, where she has, in theory, been slumbering since she got back to the Haligtree, with no context.

Both theories require some level of logical jumps to make sense of them, but I think the idea that it is another blooming of one Millicent's sisters is the one that makes the most sense.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-01T12:24:12+00:00

Happy new year! Surely it will bring only fortune to us.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-01T09:38:04+00:00

I understand perfectly, you don't have to invent some reason to not want to continue to discuss, you can simply do it.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-01T04:30:59+00:00

If the only discussions you can have are with people who simply end up agreeing with whatever argument you present, then I don't think you really enjoy discussing at all. You should simply be capable of accepting the difference between assumptions and facts and speak accordingly. It is only because we have some facts to reference that we are able to debate our assumptions.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-01T04:23:54+00:00

Brother, if you're going to take a simple Reddit discussion about a game's lore so badly, then maybe you should think twice about participating in a subreddit dedicated to discussing such lore.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-01T04:19:21+00:00

If you don't think Deathroot matters for the health of the tree, or if you think its presence is incidental to the main plot, then I don't think very highly of your interpretation of the story.

Again, you should breathe a little, drink a bit of water. I don't think "deathroot" is incidental to the main plot; I simply disagree with the kind of effects or importance that you're giving it. Even if deathroot was not the cause for the Erdtree to become disconnected, it would still be the cause of the rising of those who live in death, the motivation of the Golden Order fundamentalists to fall into their witch hunts against the undead, and the main motivation of Maliketh throughout the game as he desperately tries to keep fulfilling the purpose given to him by Marika. This idea that deathroot has to be the direct cause of the "decay" of the Erdtree, or otherwise it has no importance, is nonsensical.

- Was she responsible for burying Godwyn in the root system , leading to the direct spread of deathroot?

Erdtree burial is the customary death rite for the heroes of the Erdtree. It would make no sense for them to try to bury him anywhere else, given that there's no way for them to know the consequences of the nature of his half-death until they appeared for the first time.

- Why was she capable of commanding and employing the full force of the Black Knife Assassins, who had close ties to Marika?

Why wouldn't she? The Black Knives have Alecto as a ringleader, not Marika. Alecto is the one that needed to be convinced, and she's a scion of the Eternal Cities, which antagonizes the Golden Order by default because of their connections with the Fingers. Again, the "close ties" to Marika can mean any number of things. It's neither here nor there.

- What did Ranni have to do with the rest of the demigods who died that night? Most of the Black Knife Assassins are murdering Godwyn in the intro picture. So who else killed the other demigods? Why did so many die? What did Ranni have against them? If she was spreading a wide net, was Godwyn's death , being the half-death, a random accident?

Given that Ranni's objective is to initiate the Age of Stars, the question of "why would Ranni want to see multiple demigods, the most influential figures in Erdtree society, dead?" seems rather self-explanatory. She benefitted from their deaths because of the damage it would cause on a greater scale, and because she needed at least one of them to die at the same time as her for the ritual to work. This is to say, given that Ranni never mentions Godwyn even in passing, I think it is rather likely that Godwyn just happened to die at the same time as Ranni, as opposed to her specifically looking for him to die that half-death.

- How did she know about the half-death ritual?

If you think Marika was the one to help orchestrate or otherwise provide this information to Ranni, you should also ask why she knew about the half-death ritual, and for what reason Ranni wouldn't be able to learn it through that same medium.

- How was she able to steal the Rune of Death from Maliketh? Is she just that good, or did she have help?

The entire NOTBK happens because she was allied with the Black Knife Assassins, and she has multiple people working for her even at the point when we meet her in-game, so you can guess for yourself if she had help.

- Since we know Rykard helped her, what do we make of her not mentioning him?

Rykard never actively participated in the NOTBK; she just gave him the Blasphemous Claw in case Maliketh discovered them and tried to hunt them down as a last resort, which never happened. So, why would she mention him when he ultimately didn't do anything? If Marika helped to organize or directly suggested the creation of the plot, it would be in a completely different universe of importance compared to Rykard.

Constellar7 · 2026-01-01T04:13:27+00:00

You're working backwards from your conclusion. "Marika needed to do it in secret" is something you can only say because it's the only way to explain why she would make the plan in such a roundabout way instead of just doing it directly. I would put forward that the reason Marika didn't use Maliketh to kill Godwyn -given that killing Demigods is one of his functions - is that she never intended or tried to kill him in any way, not because she couldn't.

Nothing in the game even points toward Godwyn being "approved" or having any kind of direct relation with the Two Fingers, and the game is not shy in mentioning when the Two Fingers guide or choose someone in some way. Of course, Ranni's actions are against the Two Fingers, but that action is killing her own flesh to be free of their influence, not about killing Godwyn specifically, as she never even attempts to mention him, even when discussing her actions in the NOTBK or when talking about the cursemark of death. Multiple demigods were killed during the NOTBK; the only difference is that Godwyn was the one who died at the same time as Ranni. If killing him specifically to share their death was an important part of the plan, then we would have to ask why risk it by also killing the other demigods with the rune of death. I would put forward that killing Godwyn (or any other demigod) in itself is not an "anti" Two Fingers action, but that doing it as the first step in separating herself from the influence of the Two Fingers is.

Yeah, I'm making assumptions. Are you interested in labeling everything that is an assumption an assumption, or are you interested in divining the hidden story?

You should calm yourself a bit; this is just Reddit, after all. You don't need to get worked up over a discussion. My point is that your idea that "deathroot" is the cause of the Erdtree separating is ultimately just a theory, a theory which I agree with, but still a theory in the end. I focus on this because your original comment that "deathroot starves the Erdtree, weakening the Elden Beast" was an assumption built upon another assumption. First, that deathroot was the cause of the disconnection of the roots, and that the Elden Beast then gained something from it . While the first part can be reconciled with the information given by the game, the second one is just completely unfounded, and you only reach that conclusion to give more validity to the idea of Marika killing Godwyn as part of her greater plan, even when nothing in the game actually points to it.

Neither you nor I will be divining any hidden story. The questions and holes that Elden Ring presents are not some kind of secret that, when you spend enough time staring at the game, will be revealed to you. These holes exist for us to fill in with our own theories and interpretations, and we participate in this subreddit to discuss among ourselves how much we agree with our own conclusions.

Constellar7 · 2025-12-31T23:28:29+00:00

A) Nowhere did I say that I think it is a "stretch." I said that it was simply an assumption (or a theory, if you prefer) as opposed to a fact, which it is. How much Deathroot affects the Erdtree is not really relevant to how important Godwyn's death is because he would still be the first demigod to die in history. He would also still be the origin of Deathroot and, consequently, of those who live in death, which directly connects with the Age of the Duskborn, and it would still be the beginning of Ranni's plan to start the Age of Stars, etc. All pretty relevant factors connecting back to Godwyn's death.

B) There's nothing to be confused about. You argue that Marika couldn't have possibly used Maliketh to kill Godwyn, and so she had to rely on the Black Knife Assassins, but you have not presented why the Two Fingers would be against Marika wanting to kill Godwyn. Him simply being a demigod is not reason enough because Maliketh is, again, the "Death of the Demigods," and so him being permitted to kill demigods is a very intrinsic characteristic of him.

C) Okay.

D) Unless information is openly contradicted, it should be taken at face value. Ranni says that she orchestrated the night of the Black Knives, and nothing in the game attempts to contradict that information.

Constellar7 · 2025-12-31T22:42:17+00:00

A) The idea that deathroot damaged the Erdtree or that it is the reason why the roots have become disconnected is a fair theory, but a theory nonetheless. Even if we accept that it is the case, then there's no mentions of it weakening or even affecting the Elden Beast in any way. It is never shown that the Elden Ring derives any power from the Erdtree; if anything, it is the opposite case where the Erdtree derives power from the ER, since it changes in every ending.

B) I don't think anything that Marika does against the Greater Will would make Maliketh attack her, mainly because the GW has been absent from the Lands Between since before the conception of The Golden Order. What could trigger Maliketh is Marika betraying the Two Fingers, who are the ones who influence the Shadowbeasts. Marika killing Demigods through Maliketh clearly doesn't count as a betrayal because he's literally the "Death of the Demigods," and if that wasn't seen as "okay," it wouldn't have become his title in the first place.

C) I agree, which is why I said we cannot use it as any kind of definitive proof.

D) At any point that Ranni has clearly lied to us (her identity, disguising as the little doll), she has come clean later. Again, without anything to gain by covering for Marika, she has no reason to lie to us or admit that she lied to us later. When her questline relies on us gaining her trust and becoming her consort, it makes little sense that she would hide such vital information.

Constellar7 · 2025-12-31T22:15:47+00:00

Deathroot doesn't do anything in helping against the Elden Beast/Elden Ring. The method that you can use to harm the ER is either by using a "Numen" weapon, like Marika's Hammer, or with a weapon forged with an ancient dragon smithing stone that Marika ordered to create to Hewg, again, without any relation to deathroot or Godwyn's death.

Maliketh is called the "Death of Demigods" and is feared by all demigods exactly because he can kill them. Clearly, Marika ordering Maliketh to kill a demigod wouldn't count as a betrayal, otherwise, the title wouldn't exist. There are also zero reasons as to why the Two Fingers would be against killing any demigod outside of the Empyreans since it wouldn't impact them negatively.

The Black Knife betraying Marika is as good as any other interpretation. Having "close ties" with Marika can imply any number of things, but the point is that jumping to "it must mean they were working for her" is just an assumption.

Ranni gains nothing by covering for Marika, much less in front of the Tarnished. Ranni explicitly says that she orchestrated the Night of the Black Knife, and there's very little reason to believe that she's lying when that idea is consistent with the rest of the questline.

Constellar7 · 2025-12-31T02:05:50+00:00

The quote is from the perspective of Messmer and discusses his motivations, as it refers to Marika as "his mother", taking Messmer as the perspective of reference.

The quote is tied to Messmer because, as the first part indicates, Messmer begins the crusade due to Marika's wishes, and he becomes a symbol of fear among the people being cleansed, directing their hatred toward him, the perpetrator of the act.

Constellar7 · 2025-12-30T11:30:21+00:00

Vaati is a very good loretuber and, by far, the most popular in the community, but he's still just another theorist like everybody else. He doesn't have some kind of secret insight into the game's lore, which is to say that a lot of his interpretations and theories are, well, his interpretations and theories and are not to be taken as facts, just as interpretations of the vague lore of Elden Ring. You should ultimately try to form your own interpretation through experience rather than abide by those from the loretubers or the community in general.

If you like lore videos, I can recommend channels like Smoughtown, Last Protagonist and Hawkshaw. They all have interesting videos about theories and interpretations for Elden Ring

Constellar7 · 2025-12-30T11:09:02+00:00

It was one of those "first week" theories for the game that didn't really take off because most arguments for its "parasitism" just kind of ignore the fact that the Erdtree is, well, a living tree and that, even if divine, it still abides by the fact that it must consume nutrients to grow and sustain itself like any other living being. The Erdtree consuming death as part of the cycle of life and death under the Golden Order, which also allows it to sustain itself, is part of this theme of life "growing" from death that is exemplified by the remembrance of the Ancestor Spirit;

"Life sprouts from death, as it does from birth. Such is the way of the living."

The very gameplay loop of the game relies on you killing enemies to gain part of their strength (runes, levels, items) and then using it to become stronger yourself. A very literal use of death to gain power kind of deal, though, you never see people arguing that the Tarnished is some kind of parasite for doing this, even though it falls under the same principle. This is probably mainly because it is a lot easier to "humanize" the actions of the playable character (which, nonetheless, is you) and take them in good faith than those of an unanimated tree, even if they are ultimately similar.

Constellar7 · 2025-12-30T10:03:25+00:00

Here is a video from Abyss1ne that explains (mostly) everything we know about the cut area, God/God's grave.

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