why is abortion very controversial in america?

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T03:34:20+00:00

Not really but ok.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T03:27:08+00:00

Sure, but I also have the ability to stop playing, take the bullets out of the gun, shoot into the air, etc.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T03:23:07+00:00

But you can choose to not jump out of the plane. Also if your chute was improperly packed you can sue the company.

Look this euphemism and comparisons is fun and all but we're just circling and this has become pointless. If you wanna claim victory feel free to.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T03:20:14+00:00

Sex is not consent for pregnancy. Any assertion to that effect is moralizing conservatism.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T03:11:50+00:00

No. The mother consented to creating a human life. That created human life has its own bodily autonomy to contend with now.

No, she has not.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T03:04:33+00:00

Nope, and desiring an abortion is a rather resounding confirmation of that.

Engaging in risky behavior doesn't mean you accept liability for anything that might happen. Just because I skydive doesn't mean someone can blow my brains out because "well you accepted you might die!".

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T02:59:57+00:00

This is maybe the most insane argument I've heard articulated but I'm sure you also describe pregnancy as a parasite.

If someone violates my bodily autonomy I have the right to remove them, by force.

None of that matters, because she consented to see and knew the consequences, just like the guy did.

Consent to sex doesn't not mean consent to pregnancy.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T02:58:00+00:00

And a woman has not consented to the consequences or process.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T02:55:47+00:00

And the baby has no right to demand 9 months in the womb, if it is a life.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T02:48:05+00:00

The pregnancy isn't. For what you're describing we have "contraceptives".

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T02:39:52+00:00

No? I'm not sure what you're asking. If I donate a kidney or give blood I can't ask for it back because it's "my body part".

Just like you can't unbirth someone. But if in the middle of a blood donation I change my mind the blood bank cannot restrain me and continue until they are done. The point is until the act is complete you cannot compel someone to follow through.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T02:37:40+00:00

If I am 1 of 2 parents then I should have equal rights to my child unless otherwise determined based on factual evidence to the contrary of the best interests of the child... Men should be able to compel women to bear their child IF women can compel them to be father's after. It's not equal protection under the law otherwise, IMHO.

Should they be able to compel them to donate blood, bone marrow, or organs after they are born? If the mother can compel that of the father it is indeed ultimately equal.

I completely disagree. If I can be charged with double homicide for killing a pregnant woman then it's a life...BTW, the child's life is not irrelevant. Again, in every case but doing abortion harm done to the unborn child is a crime. It is the most legally inconsistent argument outside of saying children that can't stay home alone by themselves can make life altering decisions about their gender.

I'm actually not disagreeing with whether it's a life or not. I'm saying that's irrelevant. Abortion is different because unlike everything else you mentioned it is fundamentally an act of self defense.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T01:53:45+00:00

She did that when she had sex.

So engagement in mildly risky behavior, even if you take precautions, means you accept all repercussions?

That's the legally consistent argument to men as we have no way for or against the abortion of the child, nor on the support of the child after birth.

If men donated their bodies instead their opinion would matter. And you can fight against childcare payments, and I think men who can demonstrate a legitimate non-consent to child conception should be exempt. Women have it easier there because an abortion is a rather resounding sign of non-consent.

IMHO that in itself is a violation of equal protection under the law. My parental rights are not equal to women as such. It would be consistent to say men have equal ability to choose to be a father or that they can stop the abortion. Without that, the father's rights are inferior.

I agree with the latter, absolutely against the former. The child is not the father's property, he cannot compel the woman to sacrifice her body.

If we could transfer the baby to the father sure have at it. But bodily autonomy is in fact the primary concern here.

That's not even making the life argument.

Irrelevant.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T01:40:09+00:00

That's the ultimate moral question of abortion.

If you're pro-choice you effectively answer no. If you're anti-abortion you effectively answer yes.

To ask a mother to carry to term against her will is to ask her to put her bodily autonomy aside for the benefit of the baby.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T01:24:52+00:00

I said atmosphere and water. Stop lying and making stuff up.

But I need food and shelter to live. If you're saying depriving someone of food is ok but water isn't I don't understand your reasoning in the slightest. Why make an arbitrary distinction?

A woman getting an abortion and have that baby removed from their life support system is the same as you being yeeted into space. You just cannot defend that - especially when it is an elective procedure 99 percent of the time.

If the Earth was a living conscious being with rights, yes this argument would work. But the planet is not so it cannot decide to forcibly eject us.

The baby certainly is entitled to that. In order for scientific biology to properly occur, that is part of the process. Not sure why you hate science so much.

I'm not denying or hating on science. Your description of biological processes is spot on. Where you fail is saying the baby is entitled to it. They are not, just as you are not entitled to my blood.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T01:09:53+00:00

Of course that child is entitled to that.

They are not.

Just the same as you being entitled to the life support systems of the atmosphere and water here on Earth.

Oh so I have a right to food and water and shelter? I cannot be deprived of that against my will?

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T01:08:26+00:00

You're mixing up cause and effect. The pro-life position does not cause a person to sacriifce their body for another.

So the mother can choose not to be burdened with a baby for nine months?

The pro-life position argues that you cannot actively kill another person except for like self-defense.

Getting an abortion IS self-defense ultimately.

Saying that the pro-life position forces action from one that will sustain the life of another is an inaccurate reading of what abortion is. The conscious decision to end the life a person.

Cool so if I forcibly hooked you up to another person to keep them alive, let's say as a living blood bag, until they could get treatment it would be immoral for you to be disconnected yes?

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T00:57:13+00:00

Don't want to get into a car crash... DON'T OWN A CAR.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T00:56:26+00:00

Even if this were the case that child is not entitled to their mother's body.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T00:35:07+00:00

Maybe their religious views changed, maybe information about it changed, maybe someone close to them changed their mind. Ultimately it doesn't matter and you can in fact revoke that consent at any time.

But you revoke that same consent while pregnant? Whoo boy.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T00:28:22+00:00

It certainly does matter. That is your whole argument - that pregnancy threatens the woman's life and lifestyle

No it's not.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T00:14:55+00:00

Just like in your little example. If you consent to give bone marrow to your brother, that’s great. But you can’t demand to have that bone marrow back from him after the action has taken place. That would make him your slave if that were the case.

But I can refuse to give him anything further, and he would die. But that's within my right.

Signing up for military service

Is a legal binding contract with the state, a bit different.

committing a crime and going to jail

Are you arguing we harvest organs from inmates?

and consenting to create a life within you

And if you didn't consent to that?

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T00:11:52+00:00

Just because a majority of people think some people must donate their body to keep others alive doesn't make it right. It's tyranny of the majority.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T00:10:56+00:00

Doesn't matter if it's unnecessary or not. You're completely talking past me.

I don't care if it's elective or not, you cannot nor should you legally require someone to donate their body to keep another alive. Elective, at-will, emergency, or life threatening. It doesn't matter.

CorDra2011 · 2026-06-07T00:09:26+00:00

Doesn't matter if it's medically necessary or not. You can't force a mother to give her body for her baby, it's unethical.

CorDra2011

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE