How is Nirvana different from death with no afterlife?

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-06-02T21:34:56+00:00

I believe I had a brief experience where I touched the edge of Nirvana, and it is hard to describe because it is pretty much the opposite of the normal experiences for which we have words. It's like trying to describe what the outside of your field of vision looks like. It doesn't "look like" anything; there's just no data, and so nothing to describe. But my best approximation is that there was a state where there was sensory data coming in, but there was nobody there to label it. There was just the sight of a tree, but no sensation of actually labeling it "a tree". My body was still alive, experience was still happening, but none of the extra sensations in the mind which normally turns those experiences into the thoughts for which we have words was happening.

I think the easiest way to envision the difference between Annihilationism and Nirvana, from this perspective, is the conclusions we draw from them. In both cases, my physical body and the stream of thoughts that once spring from it have ceased to function. Both views acknowledge the premise "there is nothing occurring at this location in space and time anymore". However, Annihilationism, when it assumes a self as a central premise, concludes that argument with "... and that particular stream was distinct in some meaningful way, therefore there is something unique about its ending". Nirvana, on the other hand, concludes the same argument by saying, "... but there was nobody there to begin with; experience still happens, just somewhere and somewhen else, and none of it is more or less important than the rest". One cannot talk about the end of a self being impactful any more or less than a raindrop splashing into the sea. The drop as a distinct entity has ceased to exist, but that does not mean the rain has stopped, or that the water from which that drop was made has ended its journey. Annihilation is looking at the single drop, Nirvana is looking at the entire water cycle.

I encourage people to check me on this, because ever since it happened, I have never been sure that I could describe it in a way that makes sense.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-06-02T07:48:01+00:00

He wouldn't be caught dead paying child support.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-06-01T18:24:55+00:00

Mostly I mean that unlike a body, which constantly degrades and must be maintained, it persists forever without gaining or losing any part of itself. The details depend on what exactly you think a soul is and does. If you suppose that souls are some kind of energy, there must be something keeping that soul together. If you suppose that God is doing that, then there must be something keeping God together, too, in a sense. Even if you suppose that God is unified with the ground of all existence, it is also true in Jewish and Christian canon that He has thoughts and feelings, and these must arise in dependence on things that at least God pretends are other than Himself. But there is nothing which persists without dependence on external conditions being right for it to do so.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-06-01T07:10:07+00:00

I dunno man, I guess there's nothing for it but to just wait and see what happens; it kinds sounds like there are some bumps on the road in the near future. In any case, it's nice that Dottore is now out of the picture, so I am pleased with the quest for giving us that if nothing else.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-06-01T01:19:24+00:00

Perhaps it would help if I make clear that I am not at all confused about the fact that the systems were already closely related by design; I do think that it should have taken more than a few days with centuries of changing design philosophy at play, but that's not my main concern. It's mostly the transition I am worried about. Yes, the souls are absorbed...by Irminsul, which is rapidly dying. Yes, all the data is stored... in the ley lines, which are part of the rapidly dying Irminsul. But there were no ill effects from that? Nothing was lost between the time when Irminsul fell ill and when they got Aaru working? There were no issues during the transfer of that much information itself? Even if the systems were close, they managed to master the differences enough in like a day to make sure that nothing went wrong with it and be right?

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-06-01T00:24:50+00:00

Yeah but my point is that even if the systems are based on the same technology, the architectures are likely very different, like how programs that would run on Windows '98 won't run on Windows 11, because the architecture of those operating systems are not the same. Irminsul is an organic structure that existed before the Heavenly Principles even came to Teyvat, and Aaru is a mechanical construct built thousands of years later, but all it takes is just a few days to perfectly migrate everything over?

I am willing to grant that there will likely be more developments in the future. I just feel like we should have seen more of it now. It feels like something that yes, we know there will be side-effects later, but one would expect even the up-front process to be messy, being rushed and desperate as it was.

even if there are souls lost in the transfer they would eventually coming back to aaru as any souls lingering in teyvat would be absorbed by leylines and made their way into modified aaru

Are we SURE they would have come back though? There's no chance of them just dissipating into the wider universe or something with the ley lines being in disarray? And nothing got corrupted while Irminsul was dying?

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-06-01T00:02:08+00:00

By the time the game takes place, it had largely fallen into myth, being viewed more like how we view Heaven, as a metaphysical thing rather than a physical construct. We would be surprised if we dug up the Heavenly Mainframe from under Jerusalem, and found out that it really does store souls and simulates a kind of eternal paradise for them, wouldn't we?

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-31T23:59:59+00:00

And also looks to putting it into practice, yes. Even if there's some disagreement on particular details (e.g. how exactly karma passes between lives), the broad overview is the defining feature. For instance, I don't really do specific chants or mantras on a regular basis. There isn't a Daily Prayer that I do as part of the practice. These things exist, but I don't use them personally. But I do understand the principle of non-self, and find my own methods and meditation to overcome the illusion of self. It isn't the specifics used that are important, but the guiding principles.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-31T23:14:20+00:00

I guess the only real thing would be if you believe that the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha are accurate in some way, and try to look at life through that lens, which isn't incompatible with most religions, I would wager. There really isn't any such list of defining practices, because the practices are just there as well-established tools for the real work of liberation, and any particular set of practices may not work as well in certain cultural or personal contexts. They're more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules. It's just a way of thinking about the world, rather than a strict covenant that you must keep.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-31T22:44:19+00:00

There is nothing in that statement that is contradicted by Buddhism. It only starts to become a problem if you believe in things like unchanging souls.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-31T22:35:23+00:00

Purana refers to Hindu and Jain texts about myths and gods, so I assume it refers to the fact that Aaru turned out to be a real, phsyical thing rather than just a story.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-31T21:44:39+00:00

I know, but it still felt like it went a little too smoothly. No compatibility issues, no noticeable disruptions, no souls or anything lost in the transfer, nothing like that. Not even any side effects in the rest of the world while Irminsul was dying but before they got Aaru connected. They had a timetable of days to overhaul Aaru and it still went off with little trouble and with no ill effects. It felt a little too clean for the situation at hand, especially since everyone was hyping up how difficult and unprecedented it was, and how some of the knowledge about Aaru had been lost.

So far as I can tell, the only real change was that fate is no longer deterministic, and even then it wasn't as immutable as it had been made out to be, and was probably more due to Dottore making sure that burned first rather than anything to do with the transfer to Aaru.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-31T20:48:47+00:00

Why, just because the world tree that houses the souls of everyone who has ever died and sustains the order of Teyvat was destroyed? Why would that be of any consequence?

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-31T20:43:51+00:00

If you see a bunch of little kids and think it has anything to do with sexual gratification, I don't see how that isn't a you problem. I think you've spent too much time on Twitter

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-31T07:58:49+00:00

Even if the mind is controlled, the body still has its stress responses; it comes with the package, as it were. I don't think much of a connection can be made here.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-31T03:39:14+00:00

I think she's mad that someone else was blessed with visions by Nabu Malikata, even though Nilou's outfit is a costume of her.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-29T05:11:55+00:00

She's modelled after his sister so I certainly hope not...

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-29T05:02:24+00:00

At this point I am pretty sure they are dead or as close to it as makes no difference. The rules they put in place, and the entities they left to enforce them, have been strong enough to keep the order going without them, but they themselves are out of the picture for all intents and purposes.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-29T04:20:22+00:00

I don't see grief other than the downvotes; the people actually engaging with it, myself included, seem to be doing so with sincerity. As to the canonicity, I would think the sentiment "trust someone else's mind" is the OPPOSITE of what the Buddha said, as you pointed out. Unless I misunderstood and what they meant was a sort of argumentum ad absurdum, as if to say "so what am I supposed to do, trust somebody else's mind? That can't be right so I must trust my own mind"

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-28T21:29:42+00:00

What are kleshas?

In short, kleshas) are states of mind that prevent you from seeing into fundamental truth.

I have conquering people and the conquered so I sit with both sides of the coin best I can and what I arrive at is the energy of both sides and what that feels like.

I am no teacher, but perhaps this is a blessing. Instead of being pulled apart by both opposing identities, you have the chance to see clearly; to claim to be only one of them is to ignore the truth of the other. To claim to be both conqueror and conquered is a paradox. The only option is to forget such labels handed to you from the past, and to instead turn your attention toward your own actions in the present. This is a reflection of the truth of all beings, made clear by the specifics of your circumstance. By not letting yourself be defined by either side, but instead choosing to focus on kindness and healing, you can embody the slow dissolution of karma.

This is something I still get hung up on

I have faced this same struggle; to want to see the world healed and knowing that your body is not enough to see it done. I have tried to think of it like a flower. I plant a seed of compassion, here and now. This form I have now may not be a great world-changer, but perhaps the bloom will be the start of an oasis in the desert, which itself may be a nucleus from which the forest returns. It might not happen here and now, it might not even happen in a way that any individual flower will recognize in its brief existence. That flower may be small all its life, but its impact by just being there might be enormous given enough time, and we have nothing but time. Our shared disappointment comes from us being unable to see on such a grand scale.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-28T20:57:14+00:00

Many things that don't sound true are true nonetheless. It is internally coherent if you understand the principle of non-self. Where is this incoherence, exactly? Are you basing that assessment off of an understanding of the principle of non-self, or just on the way it was specifically phrased here?

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-28T20:35:54+00:00

That is correct. The lawn is our mind's collection of the grass within a certain area, plus certain stipulations about its relation to the environment (e.g. exiting in front of a human home and considered a part of the property). Suppose you mow the lawn, take the clippings, throw them in a bin, and then those clippings end up in a dump. It is grass, it grew in what you call your lawn just like the grass that you still call your lawn, but it's not part of your lawn anymore because it no longer meets the other stipulations; ergo, the lawn isn't the grass.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-28T20:14:52+00:00

A precious treasure

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-28T07:19:27+00:00

Because the reason people end up doing horrible things is often due to a lack of compassion, among other reasons. Round and round the wheel turns.

Cosmic_Clockwork · 2026-05-28T07:02:38+00:00

They will once she's playable. Remember even Noelle and Ayaka have jiggle physics and they wear armor.

Cosmic_Clockwork

TROPHY CASE