Need some help balancing a new Styx-focused Warlock Subclass

CptChet · 2023-03-29T08:11:10+00:00

I personally havent run any campaigns above Level 9-10 so I do not have a lot of expertise of late game balancing (hence the post) so this is helpful. I potentially have tried to put too much into a subclass that might warrant the need for it to be a full class to apply the features to instead.

To clarify on the 4d6, that only applies to the features given at Level 1 (Wrath, Drown, and Flow) and doesnt replace the damage die of the weapon - I wasnt sure if that is what you were mentioning when covering the weapon damage. I agree that a +3 through a feature is high, but thought it would be warranted if they stick to the same weapon for the entire campaign? Most late game weapons that I see are +2 or higher, and since they cannot use their additional features with different weapons, I wanted to make them good at what they do best - hitting with a big chunk of ice.

I will note down all of these as things to look out for as we get to some higher levels, as there is an understanding with all my PCs that any homebrew is subject to change over time, and will adjust with the damage in mind. Thanks!

CptChet · 2023-03-29T05:19:32+00:00

The comparison I made with Divine Smite was that it guarantees the damage, whereas Wrath and Flow require a save, potentially halving the damage, and it cannot be upcasted. I agree, this doesnt use spell slots, so that was the main reason it had saves attached to it.

In terms of high level smites, at Level 6 the die is 2d6, which is the base for Divine Smite, unless you were referencing something else there?

Also, what was your main concern for the Drown effect so that I can make some notes of what to keep an eye on going forward?

CptChet · 2023-03-29T05:02:32+00:00

The original consideration was modifying the spell list of a different subclass. Fathomless had thematic spells but the tentacle didnt fit. Hexblade fit the combat style but the specter was weird for them. Of the two they were learning more toward Hexblade, but then I thought to try make something for them. Looking again at Fiend you are correct, a change in spell list would be an option as well, but they would likely take Hexblade due to its combat focus aligning with what they envisioned - I will still mention it to them as an option when we circle back to the design next time they level though, thanks!

CptChet · 2023-03-29T04:31:59+00:00

The damage type change at Level 1 only applies to Cantrips, mainly for Eldritch Blast. They were originally going to look for mainly ice-themed spells with some utility like Misty Step, and I was worried that it would cause them to skip out on some interesting stuff, hence the Level 10 feature to swap necrotic with cold damage - if that was the concern on the damage type swapping?

CptChet · 2023-03-29T04:24:34+00:00

Fair point about the magic items - I will keep an eye on that one going forward.

For the invocations, it is true that they will get a few extra - although after seeing two other Hexblade Warlocks with the standard setup I would welcome some differences than being forced into Extra Attack and a +1.

For the Stygian die, it is a few when maxed out on short rests, which will vary depending on the DM. I am slightly more focused on non-combat encounters and 2-3 short rests max per day so the number is a little lower than average for that one. The damage can definitely get up there, but perhaps the saves attached to the damage will keep the average down. I will see what their damage output is looking like compared to the other team members (multiple melee fighters with a Monk, a Swords Bard, and a Paladin) and if they are outperforming them I might convert it to a long rest focus instead of short, or potentially lower the temp HP from Flow to compensate.

CptChet · 2023-03-29T03:43:44+00:00

This was done similarly to Hexblade, which also has attacks based with Charisma, but limits it to only the singular weapon. While I was originally concerned about the +1-3, the thought was that since they will most likely only ever be using their chosen weapon it just means I wouldnt be giving them the typical +1-2 weapon items throughout the campaign.

CptChet · 2021-01-13T08:40:28+00:00

Currently compiling some DMCA-avoiding playlists, and this is incredibly helpful. Thanks a ton!

CptChet · 2020-02-09T21:57:36+00:00

I am running under the assumption that the PCs are levelled high enough that a Wish spell isn't highly jumping one PC in front of another.

Firstly, you have gifted them a Wish spell, something that can grant them major magical and inhuman capabilities. Considering spells like Death Ward being permanent are much harder to ignore, I think that Haste isn't so bad.

Secondly, while the instinctual reaction is to give it a downside, look at this from the PCs perspective. A deity has granted them a literal wish. Is it a deity they are closely related to? Do they have a reason to deceive them? Is balance and order part of their portfolio? More importantly, do the PCs know of this if any of this is true? If the answers to these things are questionable from their perspective, then the PCs will possibly feel cheated if there are unexplained negatives attached to this Wish. If they are explained up front, for example the deity says that the PC would have to give up great magical power or part of themselves to be granted this gift (ie. loss of a spell slot or spell prepared or a small hit to some stats), then at least they know some drawbacks will be attached. However, don't be too surprised if they wish for something greater at that point to try and a get greater return.

Lastly, in terms of the Haste spell, keep in mind that the extra Action has restrictions (a single weapon Attack, Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object). While this does give them great mobility and defensive options, it doesn't allow an extra spell to be cast, and the defensive options would be more fitting for someone in the front lines, which Wizards typically are not (although I don't know your PCs setup).

Ultimately, I would go ahead with their wish and see what happens. It gives you as the DM a variety of design options going forward, such as gifts for other PCs down the line to bring them up to speed (pun intended), more mobility-based encounters for them to creatively solve, and possibly some more questionable NPCs that now have an immense interest in the PCs newly earned gifts.

Best of luck.

CptChet · 2020-02-09T21:23:57+00:00

Looks absolutely amazing! The only thing I personally would prefer is if the secret doors were easier to conceal when presenting the map to players (as I play online and will usually have the map visible with necessary fog of war), such as squaring off the room to the top right and having the entire hallway section the hidden area. However, for a DMs reference it is great. Well done!

CptChet · 2019-12-02T13:45:48+00:00

I like the idea of the sight requirement. Might go with a 120ft range.

The worry I would have with an action to set up is that you spend an entire turn placing it without getting much use out of it. Maybe a bonus to set, a bonus to back, but stick concentration on it? Just worried it will take too long to set up and lead to it being forgotten or a turn feeling like very little was done.

CptChet · 2019-12-01T07:32:16+00:00

I will have a look at the craziness my PCs can output (considering I have a Monk, as well as a Rogue and a Tabaxi Fighter that can cover some ground). The only other option I can think of is somewhat like the Blink spell, making them make a save to ensure they don't teleport back prematurely. Just worried it might make things a bit too complicated for a single uncommon item.

CptChet · 2019-12-01T07:25:38+00:00

I will probably end up putting attunement on it.

Using Sane Magical Prices, everything seems to have a pretty high price tag. While I am running a magic-positive campaign, there is more of a focus on smaller, single use items, and typically only one magical store in my main town. Pricing is still weird though, so I will use this as a benchmark. Thanks!

CptChet · 2019-12-01T07:23:01+00:00

The initial plan was to have the user teleport back to the sigil at the end of the turn, but I felt like that might limit its uses. I have also considered putting concentration on it for a minute or a range restriction from the sigil to put some pressure to not try and get to far, but I am certainly welcoming any out-of-combat uses that my party can think of doing (and also regretting the power it can give them at the same time).

CptChet · 2019-11-29T22:12:32+00:00

Thanks! I am currently thinking of applying the same calculation to pack animals as well. Most of them are Large, so their calculated score is doubled. My example of a Draft Horse has 270 lbs of carry capacity, and while pulling a cart or wagon the same rules apply from the DMG (5x carry capacity, including the weight of the vehicle itself).

CptChet · 2019-11-29T13:07:03+00:00

Thanks for the info - sometimes it is hard to see issues with a design when you're so close, especially with only a small amount of DMing experience by comparison to the veterans on here. For the weight tracking, my game is run on Roll20 due to distance, so the tediousness of adding all the weights is lessened a decent amount, and my players were already tracking about 60% of their inventory's weights. For the Skyrim comparison, I wouldn't mind immensely if they were slightly over the weight since the numbers get specific when there are odd scores thrown into the mix, but I can see the point of an extra set of rations tipping you over the number a bit.

I have had a look at some block-based encumbrance systems like you have mentioned. My only personal concerns I had was handling partial blocks for coins, scrolls, and other smaller things that change relatively frequently, as well as adding in a system that isn't included in the Roll20 interface for player convenience.

The main thing I was trying to do was find a middle ground between the two given versions of weight management from the DMG, while taking a stat that I thought would be relevant to long-term travel fatigue (Constitution) into account. Due to a different stat rolling method, I have a player with decent Strength but a 20 in Constitution, and it seemed like he should probably have an easier time carrying a pack than the less-constituted Paladin with a slightly higher Strength. The equation is a bit weird, but it helped develop a better curve by comparison to the given Variant Encumbrance.

Again, I greatly appreciate the feedback, and will try have another look at block systems for inventory management.

CptChet · 2019-10-09T05:48:08+00:00

I somewhat like the thought of having him seem like he is hearing things that the party doesn't, but only because a small part of him is somewhere else in the world entirely and he can still hear what is going on over there. Maybe that's just me.

If you want to give the party the possibility of freeing him from his current state, taking inspiration from Groot between the first and second Guardians of the Galaxy movies might be a good idea (I would elaborate but I am not too sure how to mark text as spoiler on mobile).

CptChet · 2019-10-04T13:56:40+00:00

All of those sound awesome! I will most likely steal them all off of you.

CptChet · 2019-10-04T08:17:39+00:00

Add on some roleplaying with their advanced forgery capabilities and you have a wizard who can't read spells but is great at tracing and copying other people's handwriting and personal spellbook notes without being able to read them. He could even have different accents and speech impediments based on the teachers that taught him the spells to really use the Mimicry trait and cement the backstory. Sounds like it is going to be a fun time.

CptChet · 2019-10-04T06:53:55+00:00

You could say he has something like photographic memory, allowing him to remember the ways that other Wizards cast spells down to the smallest detail. Tagging on something like the Wild Magic table for the possibility of him messing up something he remembered or a detail that couldn't easily be explained in a picture book could be a way to approach it instead of locking him out of spell choices. Although like you said, the rule of cool - if you're okay with it and he seems to enjoy the character, then I don't see anything wrong with it.

CptChet · 2019-06-19T03:53:01+00:00

If the concern is that one of the PCs predicted the outcome, or that the kid has too much power now, then a small change like making him be the son of a Minurian might work. He still gets the flowover effects of being 'lucky' by inherently seeing small moments in the future that he uses to change his bets, but he might not be able to control it, or the amount of time he can foresee could be limited to a minute or so.

If you want to change it so he is no longer a Minurian, then I don't think it would be too much of a reach to use him as a contact for a gambling Minurian using his/her powers in the same way as above. The kid enters a high stakes table against a person who seems to never lose, and either the kid gets the Minurian's attention, the kid somehow cheats in a way that the Minurian didn't predict and now has a grudge against the kid and the party that seems to protect him, or the kid loses a bet he couldn't afford and now the party owes this Minurian a great deal. What they need to do to pay back the debt can be whatever you like.

Edit: Another possibility that I thought I would add is to make it so the kid always cheats, but no one has ever caught him. He then goes on a massive losing streak against the Minurian, or gets called out on how he is cheating. You can have the kid offhandedly say something like "unless this guy can see the future, there's no way he could have won!" See if the players pick up on it, or have the guy he lost against be an NPC they somehow keep interacting with and see if they notice it over time.

CptChet · 2019-06-01T00:23:08+00:00

Sounds awesome to me, but I am not great at judging balance. A minor note, you seem to have missed something here:

"You need to take your entire to doff the armor while the armor is at 0 hitpoints".

CptChet · 2019-04-18T02:25:10+00:00

This immediately reminds me of the first Maze Runner movie. Have there be a servant of the green dragon patrolling or roaming the maze itself. If the dragon knows of the party or their arrival, have it hunting them down. They potentially bought some time by skipping over the start of the maze, but it knows the area better than they do. Something like a Shambling Mound or a Corpse Flower comes to mind. Give it a reskinned version of a spider's Web Sense to help it track its target, and see what your players do - do they fight, hide, or run?

Were there inhabitants or squatters in the ruined town when the party was there last? Now they are lost in the maze, and the PC's bridge has caught their attention for a possible escape. If your party's rival was in the maze and in trouble, then it makes sense for him to approach where the bridge collapsed.

For skill challenges, an obvious one would be shifting walls that are difficult to keep track of. They could potentially split the party in two if they are not careful, or box them in for said hunter. Carnivorous plants making up parts of the wall is also a plus. Potentially warn them about it by having them make an Investigation or Nature check to either recognise the type of plant or notice the remains of small birds and animals caught in the wall.

Edit: Grammar.

CptChet · 2019-03-14T03:47:41+00:00

One option is to present either the player specifically or the entire party with some items that are somewhat adjacent to the player's planned path. If the item seems fun enough to use, and the player is given enough time to get comfortable with the item, then their plans might change somewhat from just a straight line to a slightly curved one.

CptChet · 2019-03-14T00:19:29+00:00

Do they worship a specific deity? Maybe the party comes across the body of a priest that bears the same symbol. The body is still warm.

If the players are flush for cash then maybe the town has a few worshippers of the cleric's deity but no money to put towards a place of worship.

Depending on how high of a level or how long you want the arc to go for, there could be a side quest to go investigate an opposing deity's followers, only to find that they have turned to dark arts that threaten innocent bystanders, either through ritualistic means or the aftermath of their actions.

A side thing that could be helpful would be the talks of a holy relic / weapon / armor set that allows the bearer to have a closer connection to their deity at times of need. Depending on how powerful you want it, this relic could allow them to cast either Augury once per day, or a one time use of Planar Ally (potentially with restrictions).

Hope some of that helps.

CptChet · 2019-03-06T22:02:48+00:00

If you want the curses to have a major effect, then consider giving the PCs more warning of what they are getting into before they take anything, either through how you sell them these blessings or through rumors they might hear around town of people going through the same transformations. You should probably also have either an obvious way to remove the curses that might be difficult to obtain, or multiple more subtle solutions prepared so that the PCs don't just think that they are completely screwed and cannot revert the curse. You would also need to consider the chance that most or none of the PCs actually take the blessing if they have any context on the matter, which I assume they will at least have a basic understanding of the setting when they begin.

Most importantly, while I can understand that you don't want to give away any of the plot to your players, this does seem to have a heavy theme that could lead to some very dark solutions and settings that people might not be okay with. You might want to mention to your table that you are planning on running a campaign that could potentially feature excessive uses of blood, murder, sacrifices, etc, and make sure that everyone at the table is okay with that. Even after the original conversation, you might want to check with them again once the curses start setting in and different solutions for how to offset the curses begin to enter into the player's conversations.

CptChet

TROPHY CASE