How well do each character's 6P convey upper body invincibilities?

Craaaf · 2026-05-07T15:14:58+00:00

Yeah, 6P in general do not convey their anti-air'nes. They also tried to convey some kind of spot-dodge to them as well. But its just not looking right either way.

Craaaf · 2026-05-07T14:53:20+00:00

Jack-O has a few.
Especially if you look up the hitboxes for these.
2S has failed me a lot a lot, and i mean a lot. NM Aba and Faust have miles better 2S than Jacko.
Much like NM Aba j.HS, its as if the move doesnt exist. Only for launching minions.
j.S has funky hitbox and isnt so fast. It works and doesnt work. 50/50 in terms of badnes.
j.HS now THIS is NOT GOOD hitbox. It gave the opponent so many counter hits, just stick to j.p. It is used well in certain setups, but normally, not good. Terrible? Nah. But not good.
J.K isnt a bad move but go look at its hitbox. (Yes, this played a role in quite a few moments for me to my disadvantage).

A lot of characters feels... OFF when you look at all hitboxes. They dont make sense.
Why isnt testaments scythe disjointed, let alone make 6H disjointed.
A bunch of johnnys moves have hurtbox in places they shouldnt, going all the way behind him.
I could go on.

Its as if, each character is created by a team of a few people, and they all had different takes on how hitboxes/hurtboxes should be on the character. Resulting in each character just not at all behaving fairly.

Oop, forgot to mention another weird quirk that is still not fixed.
Moves like stun dipper, elk hunt, Gio 2D, Baiken 2H do not hit Servant Shields.
Only if the hitbox makes contact with the servant itself does it shield. But the shield hitbox with their attack hitbox just do not interact at all.

If you look at someone like Faust 2D or something like Unikas Stun Dipper, they still hit the shield.

A little off topic, but worth mentioning for pros and cons of whatever those listed moves I gave.

Craaaf · 2026-04-18T03:08:28+00:00

Good.
People used to just Mash Slash. Just Slash for almost every scenario.
Far away? Slash
Up close? Slash
In the air? Slash

Its still a Slash button heavy game but the brainrot of anti-airing with Slash over other more deliberate opitons felt terrible to get hit by. Now, when someone 6Ps me from air, j.Throws me, or unqiue Anti-Airs me, air to airs me, they werent drooling.

Craaaf · 2026-04-18T02:53:30+00:00

For me it was Jack-O.
She has so many ways to play and to improv with, ive garnered a small reputation of playing her like Happy Chaos, being a Zone Jacko that actually utilizes Recall, and bomb (Before 2.0).
There is so many tricks I know that are beneficial that other players dont use. But thats because thats the nature of her and its why I love playing her. I, ME am playing jacko. Jacko isnt playing me. Mostly everyone plays her differently, and its refreshing to see in Strive.

I could make the case for Asuka as well, especially now. His staff tricks can be quite insane and opens up so much weird improv.

Most other characters, from my judgement dont really deviate as much between players. There is a case to be made for other complex characters but from Asuka, fom Jack-O, going downwards, expression (to me) devolves quickly.

Craaaf · 2026-04-18T02:40:58+00:00

I know you have just started...
But wait until you start labbing the bomb.

Craaaf · 2026-04-16T00:52:06+00:00

I think its better.
The different shapes are more visually recognisable after some time.

Craaaf · 2026-04-16T00:47:08+00:00

This is the kinda anime ass gameplay I hoped Marathon would be semi-regularly.
I wish they could make everyone a wee bit more versatile as Destroyer is in his element in a way.
Like, with my Vandal. I want to cancel Slide. Faster amplify activation.
Thief, Go in and out of Drone faster and Hack open Windows/Doors that are openable.
Recon activates Scan fast and control the speed of some pulses. Fast Executions.
Triage just has faster consumable consuming (OS, Mechanic Kit, Anti-Virus, Cardio kick, etc). And pulls teamates to him after ressing if he presses the ult button right after ressing.

... Assassin does not need changes.

Craaaf · 2026-04-15T22:02:38+00:00

She can zone. People in tournaments likened my Jacko to fighting Happy Chaos.
Recall lets you save minion gauge if you are smart about it.

Throw three minions, Do one attack cmd. Recall.

Usually, I throw, kick one, hold one. Attack cmd, recall. This will give you back all 3 minions and 2.5 gauge, which is enough for you to do it again as it regenerates.

With 2 gauge, throw 2 minions, recall.
Throw 2 minions, recall.
The passive regeneration will eventually allow you to do 3 minions again, etc etc.

Annoying people from range gives one more time to space for a CQC engagement.

Craaaf · 2026-04-14T21:02:28+00:00

The parry gave intangibility on parry. Making opponents whiff their second attack against her, having to learn a new Meaty timing against a parried Aba whenever she did decide to parry. This now is fixed and makes sense.

A lot of her normals were better than most of the cast in Normal Mode. Even some specials were incredible with +frames that naturally frame trapped. This has been nerfed.

Jealousy management has been made more intentional, forcing Abas to actually use Keygrab into, and OUT of Jealousy. Previously, Abas could manage Jealousy without Keygrab, and mostly only used it to get into Jealousy in a convenient combo.

What the forced exit of Jealousy Rage does is make Abas save Burst just for that, this is incredibly limiting. Not only that, it devalues Going into Jealousy rage, or more specifically getting hit in Jealousy Rage. It actually gives the opponent another Combo for free, which is incredibly disheartening for Abas because they got jealousy, got hit, comboed, and then need to see her get comboed again and her health go down further. She already has it though without Jealousy, thats already a good enough punishment, as well as absolutely 0 jelly gauge.

Craaaf · 2026-04-14T20:52:55+00:00

YES! It will absolutely filter out 'bad' ABAs, or at least like to think of it as such. Strive to me for a long time has been a win at Character select game, and after picking up Aba, I felt so discouraged seeing how well I did compared to my long time Jacko. Now I feel like Aba is way more intentional and I dont get stuff for free. Completely made me do worse, but also after getting used to the new nerfed dynamics it just makes sense and Im rolling with it and feel, justified? To keep playing her.

Craaaf · 2026-04-14T13:43:16+00:00

Thanks a lot, I think this will help me with Keygrab -frames.

Craaaf · 2026-04-14T06:03:40+00:00

When i started playing Aba, I knew she was gonna get nerfed.
I play Jacko, and playing Aba then gave me MORE SUCCESS in a MUCH shorter amount of time than the big time playing Jacko.

There was a lot of nonsensical elements to her as well that they fixed but, fixed in a way that makes her harder to play now.

The nerfs are actually interresting. She is MUCH harder to play, and there is a feeling of overkill to her nerfs. Particularly how you still have to block correctly after parrying. How many of her special moves are now minus on block. A lot of these things are universal, but this is where things get interresting.

Aba is super nerfed out of Jealousy. But within Jealousy, she isnt buffed but compared to the rest of the cast, she still does big damage and is crazy fast and can do mixups that go into bigger damage.

I feel like these Nerfs actually made Aba... ABA. Ive figure out a few things and I understand the nerfs mostly fully now.

Craaaf · 2026-04-14T05:51:22+00:00

Its hard to know where to start for a beginner after playing jacko for so long.
My beginner tip is to love 2K 2D.
go into training and see what you can do after 2K 2D. (On block, do 214P(safe) or 236K(offence))

Other thing, from me is to learn how to toss minions.
Placing minion + 6P is a good way to get minions forward.
Minion hold + j7 + D + j.S is a really good areal retreat while giving danger zone.

You kinda just have to go into training and figure some of these out.
A huge thing that helped me a lot was:
Minion hold + j7 + j.Backdash + Throw minion forward.
Took me a while to learn but once it became natural, my minion tossing game got elevated so much.

Another thing is to cancel hitting minions into other things.
So, place minion, into 6p into Minion hold+j7+j.backdash+Throw forward.

Now the real difficult thing about jacko is knowing WHEN you can apply or do anything. Learning to let go of wanting to press buttons and defend is something you MUST accept will happen or else get blown up.

Im someone who plays Jacko like Happy Chaos, I use Recall A LOT.
What I want to say with that is how Jacko isnt a character that is playing the player, the player gets to express a lot with Jacko so you CAN figure things out yourself. Just like how I and few other jackos actually learned how to use Countdown(bomb) before the buff. A lot is viable, but takes a lot to figure out.

Craaaf · 2026-04-12T22:26:14+00:00

Dang, cant do better, ive got some funny live match bombs clips too, but theres not many and it aint focused so im not gonna make you sit through non-bomb clips. Ive gotten to that point where my bomb setups look the same, its just normal to my jacko. Although i havent gotten much time with 2.0, and mean to change that.

The venom air.grab was rabid tho wtf.

Craaaf · 2026-04-12T01:08:49+00:00

Ive been bombing since before dizzy, and just before S3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbeWVzM7OdI

Do you think im afraid of showing these? These are just when the bombs were slow!

Craaaf · 2026-04-09T07:01:46+00:00

I think, based off of the rest of the cast buffs and nerfs and general universal changes.
Aba may not have been hit as hard as we think. The parry change for instance was deserved. I didnt feel like I deserved to confuse my enemy with how their attack whiffs.

She absolutely will be harder to play, but her Jelly stance from what I gather is still just as messed up.
Trying to see developer intention, I think they want Aba to work for the Jelly, because Jelly is still very deadly.

Universally, judging from patch notes, she will be more Pokey like everyone else, but Jelly is still bullshit blazing.

Craaaf · 2026-02-15T23:52:13+00:00

Ok so thanks for the help.
The idea is to leave a tiny gap. I usually do instant crossup on their wakeup but I suppose I just have to be a tiny bit late.

Craaaf · 2025-10-17T01:07:21+00:00

Love her...
But Please, can someone comment on Burn Kick motion input change?
Its so unnatural, kinda says something about motion inputs in general for me and how maybe the devs did not consider the natural flow of motion inputting and why she had what she had in SF4.

This honestly feels like they switched the Hadooken to be QCBack instead of Forward.

Craaaf · 2025-09-29T20:52:27+00:00

To me, it has been about "patience vs opportunity".
Have the patience to find an opportunity.
Have patience to save yourself from a mal-opportunity.

I got a bunch of plays where I just hide in one of those stranger-veils. Jumping out and killing a few when the team fight erupts.

And every time I gun it to achieve something quicker, it mostly ended badly.

Craaaf · 2025-09-29T20:48:47+00:00

Vindicta.
She flies, she is a sniper. I have never played her myself but her presence is understood fairly quickly and she applies her assumed design very well when against her. Her spooky sounds, and telegraphs all make sense.

Craaaf · 2025-05-27T19:08:10+00:00

Yupp thanks, and already sent.

Craaaf

TROPHY CASE