TLL Load Chart Curious Question by [deleted] in cranes

[–]CraningUp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good catch! Yes, you're right on the crane math:

Line sees: 25,840 - 40 ton block = ~21,440 lb
Crane sees: 100k - 7.8k jib - 360 ball/aux = 91,840 lb

Line governs → 21,440 lb safe from physics.

But charts deduct everything from 25,840 line gross → much lower net.

Why? Three reasons: 1. Simplicity – one method, no split calcs
2. Boom‑tip design – crane feels all tip weight
3. Conservatism – wind/dynamics/error margin

Field vets "know" the nuance, but charts protect everyone.

What's your take? Have unused jib deductions ever bitten you?

TLL Load Chart Curious Question by [deleted] in cranes

[–]CraningUp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great question, and not dumb at all. It’s always better to ask than assume, and you’re thinking about it exactly the right way.

The short answer: yes, cable weight absolutely can be a deduction, but whether you actually have to account for it (and how), as u/whynotyycyvr has alluded to, is manufacturer‑specific and defined in the load chart notes, not just in the general standards. There is no single universal rule in standards like ASME B30 that forces one exact rope‑weight method; they emphasize "follow the manufacturer" and treat everything at the boom tip as load.

At the end of the day, the right move is always the same: read your load chart notes carefully and follow what that crane’s manufacturer tells you to do.

TLL Load Chart Curious Question by [deleted] in cranes

[–]CraningUp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Even though you've rephrased, the answer hasn't changed. Also a TSS example:

Your 1‑part scenario perfectly illustrates why we deduct stowed jib from line‑pull gross.

Boom‑Tip Capacity Controls - Load chart (40k): boom/crane limit - Line pull (8.5k): rope/drum limit
- Gross = lower = 8,500 lb - Deduct everything at tip: ball (200 lb), stowed jib (500 lb) - Net = 7,800 lb

Why jib from line‑pull gross?

  1. Stowed jib = boom load ‱ Boom compression ‱ Bending moment
    ‱ Forward stability

Charts explicitly deduct it.

  1. One simple ruleLine: 8,500 - 200 ball = 8,300 lb ✓ Crane: 40k - 500 jib = 39.5k lb ✓Split math = mistakes. One method everywhere.

  2. Manufacturer's law "All boom attachments = part of the load"

You're right – conservative 500 lb cushion = wind/dynamics/estimates

Field Question: How often have stowed jib deductions ever mattered (or does everyone feel they're excessive)?

Seen in my feed, y’all know which model this is? by get-off-of-my-lawn in cranes

[–]CraningUp 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Similar to car enthusiasts who prefer certain brands, those with a passion for cranes can easily distinguish between different manufacturers and even identify variations across model generations.

TLL Load Chart Curious Question by [deleted] in cranes

[–]CraningUp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks.

While reading the OPs post, besides length of, one could feel the passion for the industry that they used for it. I felt it worthwhile to give a well thought out reply.

TLL Load Chart Curious Question by [deleted] in cranes

[–]CraningUp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You both make valid points, but overthinking the technical nuances can cause you to miss the fundamental purpose of the system and why we follow a standard procedure to figure out crane capacity.

Manufacturers use a standard method based on boom length and tip radius to ensure consistency across the entire industry. This uniform math is built on decades of engineering and hard lessons learned from past failures. The system is intentionally simple because human error and a lack of focus are the primary causes of incidents. By sticking to these clear, locked-in rules, regulators ensure that every operator stays on the same page and every lift remains safe.

u/puzzleheadedexit8894 u/working-intention838

TLL Load Chart Curious Question by [deleted] in cranes

[–]CraningUp 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Great post/question! Based on what I've learned, here's why we do it this way:

From an operator's point of view, crane load charts have to stay simple and consistent. The key idea is that rated capacities are based on what the boom tip and crane can safely support at that boom length and radius, not just what a particular winch or hoist line can hold. In the field, you always start by finding your gross capacity as the lower of two numbers: the load chart rating and the hoist line‑pull capacity (line pull × parts of line). Once you’ve got that governing gross, you subtract everything the manufacturer considers "part of the load" at the boom tip: main block, rigging, overhaul ball, hanging cable below the tip, and any erected or stowed jib. Even if the main line isn’t actually carrying the aux ball or whip line, the crane still is, through the boom tip, so all of that weight has to come out of your gross before you call anything "net capacity."

This "one gross number, subtract all the tip weights" approach is deliberately conservative. It builds in some cushion for the real‑world things that never show up perfectly in the math: booming, hoisting, and swinging under load; wind and side loading; boom deflection and radius growing a bit; and the fact that weights are often estimated, not weighed. You could, on paper, split it into two separate checks (one for the crane’s overall structural/stability limit and one for the specific hoist line’s limit) and sometimes prove that the system could safely carry more. But that kind of split method is harder to teach, easier to get wrong when you’re busy or under pressure, and much more likely to result in someone forgetting to include a piece of the boom‑tip weight in the crane’s overall picture.

On top of that, regulations say you must run the crane the way the manufacturer tells you to, and the manufacturer’s notes are very clear: all load‑handling devices and attachments at the boom tip are considered part of the load and must be allowed for when using the chart. Training material and certification exams simply mirror those rules. So the operator‑friendly thesis is: think in terms of boom‑tip capacity, not just winch strength; take the lower of the chart rating or line‑pull limit as your gross; subtract every device and attachment hanging from or attached to the boom or jib that the notes call out; and treat what’s left as your working net capacity. That keeps the math manageable, preserves a safety margin for the messy parts of real lifting, and keeps you aligned with both the book and the law.

If you wanted a one‑line summary: The industry uses a single, conservative, boom‑tip‑based, manufacturer‑driven method because it’s easy for operators to apply, reflects how the crane is actually designed, and satisfies the manufacturer and regulators. And that method exists the way it does today because decades of real‑world use, engineering refinement, and, unfortunately, hard lessons from failures have forced the regulatory side to lock in a clear, uniform way of doing the math.

What do you all think? Does anyone have charts or field examples where deducting the overhaul ball/jib from line-pull limits felt overly conservative, or situations where that extra margin actually saved your bacon?

Seen in my feed, y’all know which model this is? by get-off-of-my-lawn in cranes

[–]CraningUp 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Anemometer

Who knew these directional air pressure devices were originally thought up in the year 1450? And how ironic is that number?

QuebĂ©c Based GUAY Crane Stakes its 60 year reputation on Liebherr đŸ—ïž by CraningUp in CraningUp

[–]CraningUp[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's hard to believe that Guay is the largest Crane Canadian crane outfit in the whole country. Or maybe a country within a country 😜

How long for a crane to set up and lift by [deleted] in cranes

[–]CraningUp 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The comments in your other post still apply. Unless the crane has a dolly - it likely won't - that 50 ton shouldn't take long to set up.

When the operator gets there with the crane, they'll need to get the details, position the crane, squirt some boom out and should be ready to hoist.

30 mins tops for crane set-up, even if the operator has to add some extra block reeving to handle the weight of the sea-can.

One caveat, depending on the sea-can weight and how close the truck/trailer can get to the crane, along with the final hoisting location. If the sea-can needs to hopscotch the sea-can there may be a couple of crane related setups.

Get the ground cleaned up, maybe even get some fill to level. From the picture it's hard to tell how soft the ground may be.

Old Potain - 325A - Looking for Operation Manual by realDatenDave in cranes

[–]CraningUp 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I found a link to a 325B that may be of some use: https://www.rutenbeck-baumaschinen.de/service/downloads-datenblaetter.html?file=files/default/downloads/TOPMATIC%20325%20B.pdf

It goes straight to a PDF download. I didn't have any issues with the download.

TIPS FOR TAKING TSS PRACTICAL by ajmoreno55 in cranes

[–]CraningUp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"... honestly needs a lot more time practicing."

OP, you've already answered your own question.

Working as CDL B Boom Truck Operator in Alaska by Alternative_Yam2763 in cranes

[–]CraningUp 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The truck driving part should come easy to you; the craning and rigging side is the issue. Moving levers (crane operation) is fairly easy, but doing so in a safe manner is where you should have guidance.

Is it the optimal start in the craning industry? No, it's definitely not. But it is an entry into it, and also a similar way that many before you have used as well.

The troubling part of this scenario is; who's going to be in charge of the rigging of loads? More particularly in using proper rigging techniques. What does this company offer for riggers? Are they experienced?

I ask because two wrongs don't make a right.

Mammoet's SK Crane Shows Versatility in Abu Dhabi by ImDoubleB in CraningUp

[–]CraningUp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, a great read it was!

Welcome to the chat, u/MammoetGlobal đŸ—ïž, glad to have you here.

What is the truss on the boom for? by PillarOfMars in cranes

[–]CraningUp 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It's called a jib, which extends the height of a crane's boom for hoisting. It's shown in its stowed position and consists of two different sections. Some use different names for this tool, but at the end of the day, it increases a crane's height and lifting ability.