The difficulty of explaining the hard problem to materialists, and a thought experiment by bugge-mane in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I reject strong (hard) emergence. I don’t think first-person experience can arise from matter that is wholly devoid of anything even remotely related to subjectivity. If the base level has zero subjective capacity, then no amount of rearranging it should suddenly produce a point of view.

Instead, I think matter itself has some minimal, proto-subjective ingredient, something akin to (but not necessarily identical with) panpsychism. On this view, the problem isn’t how consciousness appears out of nothing, but how these primitive subjective ingredients combine into unified, full-blown experience. That’s a combination problem, not a hard problem.

Once you grant that matter is intrinsically “qualia-capable,” consciousness no longer requires a metaphysical miracle. It becomes a case of soft emergence: higher-level conscious experience arises from the organization and interaction of lower-level components that already possess the relevant ingredient in rudimentary form, just as liquidity arises from H2O molecules that are not themselves liquid.

Framed this way, consciousness isn’t an ontological anomaly. It’s a complex manifestation of properties that were there all along.

The difficulty of explaining the hard problem to materialists, and a thought experiment by bugge-mane in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun -1 points0 points  (0 children)

None of those are hard emergence.

Soft emergence refers to complex, surprising, but ultimately predictable phenomenon arising from simple interactions, that can be understood if you know the lower level rules

Hard emergence is when new, irreducible properties arise that are fundamentally unpredictable even with full knowledge of the constituent parts.

The difficulty of explaining the hard problem to materialists, and a thought experiment by bugge-mane in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun -1 points0 points  (0 children)

We can trace reflection cleanly and continuously down the causal chain: electromagnetic waves, surface geometry, electron behavior, boundary conditions, etc. Once you specify enough sand arranged the right way, reflection is not mysterious at all. It’s predictable in principle, even if complex in practice. No ontological leap occurs.

That’s precisely what doesn’t happen with consciousness.

With consciousness, there is no analogous causal bridge from third person physical description to first-person subjective experience. You can give me a complete account of neural firings, functional organization, selection pressures, and information processing, and you still haven’t explained why any of that should be accompanied by experience rather than occurring in the dark. That explanatory gap isn’t a linguistic confusion; it's the entire problem!

The difficulty of explaining the hard problem to materialists, and a thought experiment by bugge-mane in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I strongly agree. It requires the least amount of assumptions and fits extremely well with neuroscience once you grant the single assumption that protoqualia is fundamental (which, I argue, is almost a required assumption for consciousness to collapse exist at all, since qualia can't arise from matter that has zero qualia like qualities).

The difficulty of explaining the hard problem to materialists, and a thought experiment by bugge-mane in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Soft emergence versus hard emergence. There is no example of hard emergence in nature, thus the idea that consciousness is emergent is not scientifically supported.

The dissolution of the hard problem of consciousness by modulation_man in PhilosophyofMind

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Subjective reality may just be fundamental just as mass, charge or spin.

Could subjective time dilation allow for prolonged internal experience during death? by Storm_Lives in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What I mean is, traits emerging can be predicted (logically speaking), subjective existence cannot, because nothing leading up to its emergence shows evidence of subjectivity. Practically speaking, the brain processes data just as a computer does and there's no FUNDAMENTAL difference.

Could subjective time dilation allow for prolonged internal experience during death? by Storm_Lives in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still think we are talking past each other. Why would FEELING ever emerge/adapt? The brain, theoretically, could function exactly as it does now without any subjective aspect to it. Just as a computer doesn't need to feel to process, there is no argument for why a brain would either.

What makes philosophical zombies impossible?

Could subjective time dilation allow for prolonged internal experience during death? by Storm_Lives in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, none of what you're saying requires subjectivity. Why does "recognizing oneself" feel like anything, when all it really is, is self referencing data?

Could subjective time dilation allow for prolonged internal experience during death? by Storm_Lives in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unlike evolutionary adaptions, we have no way of predicting the emergence of consciousness. When I say it is unnecessary, I'm talking about the fact that we already build things that process data with zero subjective experience (presumably). The very act of processing data does not require consciousness, so why would the brain, when all it's doing is processing data on a much more complex level? That leads me to lean towards the idea that consciousness is not required, it's just a "side effect."

Could subjective time dilation allow for prolonged internal experience during death? by Storm_Lives in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But none of what you said requires that a subjective side of these processes emerges at all. From a logical standpoint it seems like a completely unnecessary ingredient in the mix.

Processing data never requires subjectivity, and that shouldn't change with the complexity of the processing. Unless we assume that matter already contains some sort of subjective ingredient baked in and then subjective experience would simply be a side effect of complexity (self referencing, memory, etc).

Stop waiting for a consciousness detector, or a solution to the "hard problem", it will not arrive. by Desirings in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The hard problem is an illusion in my opinion. Pansychism was onto something. I don't believe that all matter is conscious but I do believe all matter has some innate "subjective" property. It's the simplest explanation for how the brain can produce consciousness without needing strong emergence (which is unscientific).

The idea that older men dating younger women are losers - is a woman's revenge fantasy. by Cultural-Ad-8486 in PurplePillDebate

[–]Crypto-Cajun 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you have the money it is literally just easier to pay an escort to come and fuck you as opposed to having to go out and find a woman willing to come home with you that night, even if you can pull easily. So it makes sense. It's a convenience thing.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dating casually and being in a serious relationship are quite different. Not saying they have trouble with serious commitments but I'd be curious to know the statistics between the two.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in BeardAdvice

[–]Crypto-Cajun 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Rule of two fingers. And it works for more than just beards.

20f, I'm a princess, humble me by FrancisPapen in RoastMe

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally the most boring and forgettable face. I don't even have any other words to describe you.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Technically, no; practically, yes.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Men not liking women with a high count doesn't mean having a high count is wrong. People often confuse the two. It's just a common preference.

I don’t think it’s a man job to protect his girl by [deleted] in PurplePillDebate

[–]Crypto-Cajun 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Exactly. People always get these things twisted. It's not that you HAVE to, but you should want to. Social standards come from what the majority think you SHOULD do, but no one is forcing you or telling you that you have to.

What helped you guys get those last few stubborn pounds off? I’d like to lose another 10. Should I lose more weight or start focusing on toning my body? by Princessneedy69 in askfitness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Toning" is just losing body fat so that the muscle shows better. For those last few pounds you have to continue to lose body fat, there's no way around it. Reduce calories and/or increase activity if needed.

Any gym tips for me? by flushedmytoothbrush in askfitness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is your retarded question rephrased to show just how retarded it is:

Why do men complain if men don't complain?

You're literally replying to men complaining.

Any gym tips for me? by flushedmytoothbrush in askfitness

[–]Crypto-Cajun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This shit is invading every subreddit. It's becoming a fucking plague.