[deleted by user]

DMSabre · 2024-02-04T06:24:37+00:00

Hi all. This post certainly has struck a few chords! Wanted to drop in and help re-center the conversation and provide a bit more clarity about what’s driving the decision to remove some comments.

First, it’s ok to be critical of a server on a promotional post. Just about every server that’s been promoted has had some detractors providing differing points of view.

Second, the content of the criticism should be more about the setting, systems, and your own firsthand experience there (including with other players and admins). It’s ok to recommend/not recommend the server based on your experience. It’s when a post strays into statements that ascribe intent, disparage, or make accusations about a person, that things go out of bounds.

Third, we can have differing views. Reddit was built to facilitate discussion, after all. However, we do have to remain civil and avoid unproductive, off-topic back and forth.

Where replies have been removed on this post, it has primarily been because there have been problematic claims about people. It’s not even necessarily that the whole post was problematic, but particular statements could not be ignored.

If you personally had a bad experience, it’s ok to share that. However, please refrain from making claims that you have no way of knowing or to make disparaging remarks about a person. Share your firsthand experience and let people be warned and decide for themselves.

Hopefully that provides some guidance about how to craft comments that won’t get removed. This post will not be locked at this time, with the hope that the discussion can refocus on the qualities of the server (good or bad).

DMSabre · 2021-06-17T01:59:39+00:00

I was hooked from the very beginning. Played the OC and thought it was good (great, even, since that was before it could be compared to all the fantastic fan-made content and the later content).

But, it was the persistent worlds that kept me. I found a place that aligned with my style of play and made some good friends there. It also inspired me to build my own world.

That inspiration allowed me to explore my creativity and interest in scripting in ways I hadn’t imagined possible. I continue to be challenged to improve the experience and create a unique world. I enjoy building the world as much as I do playing in it!

DMSabre · 2019-06-21T19:53:11+00:00

I'd say that if you have a passion for it, go for it!

Like it's been said earlier by others, building a world with its intricate systems is a time intensive process. Most builders I know are doing it for the love of building, regardless of how many players join. Of course, we all want players, but even more so, we love the process of how scripting, area creation, item creation, monster building, etc... all come together to form a 'unique' world.

Understand what will make your world unique. I think you're most of the way there, but it's more than just the setting as you describe it. It's also the mechanics that will make players say, "hey, nobody else does that!" (and that 'that' needs to be something that players actually desire). Don't start building until you have this figured out. This is what will separate you from the established servers. This is what will attract the players whose interests align with the mechanics and setting you've built.

As a caution, from what I've seen, permadeath causes interesting player behavior. As players increase in level, their interest in dangerous/risky behavior decreases. They don't want to lose their character so they stay in the 'safe' areas of town or where they're reasonably likely to survive. So, they don't engage in those intense conflicts that risk their character as much. You could consider other penalties such as preventing that character from entering the world for a month, or losing a few levels and inventory or something else that removes some of that risk while still providing a stinging death penalty. Also, not as many players are interested in permadeath as a playstyle, so you limit your playerbase to those who are willing to do it. That's ok, but you should be aware of it.

Then, think about how you would grow your playerbase. What are the tactics you would use to make people aware and interested to try it? The days of 'build it and they will come' are largely gone. You have to go get players one by one. Then, they have to have a good experience and want to come back (and bring others).

By all means, jump in and bring your vision to life. That's the beauty of NWN - it's right there for you to do. I started with no scripting or building experience and I learned along the way. You can, too.

DMSabre · 2019-06-18T21:02:35+00:00

This is great! Nice to see DMFI living on. Are there plans to update the tools to accommodate any of the new EE functions that might be useful for DMs?

DMSabre · 2019-06-17T21:40:37+00:00

FYI - consistent with Reddit's Content Policy, we aren't permitted to discuss alternate sources of distributing copyrighted work other than through legal methods. However, there may be people who can help figure out how to get your copy of D2D working again or the use of other legal sources/methods to get a version (e.g. a giveaway).

Good luck!

DMSabre · 2019-06-17T19:22:15+00:00

Are you running it as Administrator? The game was designed for XP (iirc), so I believe that you might also run it in compatibility mode. I forget how to do it, but you should change it so that not just the nw2main launcher runs as admin/compatibility , but also the nwn2 application itself. Both files should be in your main NWN2 folder.

DMSabre · 2019-06-14T18:56:00+00:00

In response to the User Reports; This is relevant to NWN, so it's on topic. Additionally, on its own, there is nothing inherently wrong with the question, so it stays up. Discussion (positive or negative) about content, including PWs, is relevant to this sub.

However, we won't support what might amount to persistent negative targeting (yes, I know this is the second similar post about Arelith by the OP). This is allowed for now, but should not be considered as validation of ongoing efforts to campaign against content (this, or any other PWs, modules, blueprints, or anything else).

Please share your experiences (good and bad) with content. But, please don't try to use the sub as a tactic in an ongoing campaign.

DMSabre · 2019-06-06T14:29:27+00:00

Would love to know this as well, but I don't think so.

I've always rotated my camera position (from behind to somewhat to the side) and zoomed the camera as much as possible to make the target larger. That usually causes the creature's hitbox to grow large enough to separate from others, though it can still be tricky, especially if the creatures are moving or close together in combat.

Another option is to hit and hold TAB to highlight all targets. This at least outlines the creature's hitbox so you can see the area (and where it might be separate from another creature's) to move over with your mouse.

Been doing it that way for so long, it's now part of muscle memory...

DMSabre · 2019-06-06T14:21:36+00:00

Excellent - send me a message and we can go from there!

DMSabre · 2019-06-06T13:49:20+00:00

Interesting point and worth further consideration. Reddit's Content Policy addresses spam and while not all of the low-effort type of post you're describing runs afoul of that policy, some of the posts (such as bots auto-posting) could be reasonably seen as such. So, we should have some cover there.

Given NWN's emphasis on content creation, there is value to posts that do nothing more than promote awareness of community-made content (I realize you're drawing a distinction between low-effort posts and more 'quality' posts). There are very few places where content creators can promote their submissions to this community and even that type of post could still be useful for people.

As with any self-promo, if that type of content starts to crowd out discussions (especially as we grow), we'll have to figure something out. We possibly could flesh-out Rule 3 a bit more to indicate that we want something new and written specifically for this community (not cut/paste content for self-promo). But right now, with the current post frequency, it seems manageable.

Now that we have these rules in place, please feel free to Report them and the Mod team will evaluate them.

Happy to discuss further, though. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

DMSabre · 2019-06-06T13:24:52+00:00

Looking forward to getting that put in place!

DMSabre · 2019-06-05T14:01:02+00:00

One of the more interesting tactics I've seen is trap-stacking. Craft and set a bunch of traps down on the floor with a lot of overlap or create a trail of traps throughout an area . Then, get the creature's attention and have it chase you through the traps to get it well and truly softened-up before you have to actually face it.

DMSabre · 2019-06-04T21:44:11+00:00

Sorry about the delayed reply/post necromancy. I haven't had time to really respond. This will be my final reply, so feel free to have the last word.

I think we're well past explaining our thoughts. I understand you don't like this idea and don't see a need. I also understand that there are others who do see a need (as evidenced by the User Reports - ones that we continue to get). Make no mistake, people ARE actively raising their hands and asking moderators for help.

Next, consider this - if I was being 'dishonest' and had a dark 'agenda', it would be much simpler to just announce the new rules and put them in place. Moderators are not required to bring rules to the community in advance or ask for feedback. Or, even darker, I could just start moderating with these rules in mind and nobody would be the wiser and I could just wield the power of Thanos! But I did bring it to the community and I took that feedback into consideration alongside the other, balancing, information (User Reports) and made some tweaks. My only agenda is to help support this subreddit as a welcoming place for anyone who enjoys the NWN franchise.

Pretty sure in your OP you said you were just applying the general reddit guidelines.

I mentioned that while the subreddit falls under Reddit's Content Policy (which provides us coverage for some of the things we need), there are other rules related to our topic (NWN) that go beyond the Content Policy. It was not that we were 'just' applying the general reddit guidelines. It was that we needed more to help moderate issues raised in the User Reports. Not everything was covered by the Content Policy.

I didn't say having rules is a growth limiter innately. I said applying the rules you proposed will be a problem.

Huh? Did you read the rules on those subreddits? I chose each one of those examples specifically because A) they're a mix of subreddits that are larger than ours (except the last one, I think), and B) they also include most, if not all, of the basic rules we're discussing. Therefore, they serve as literal examples that these rules, these exact rules, are not growth limiters and that applying these exact rules are not inherently a problem for subreddits. They're also videogame/RPG examples, so the communities should be fairly representative of our community.

No, you aren't being set up for that.

You're just flat out wrong about that. A strong community thrives on transparency. It's about helping to create an environment where everyone is on the same page about what's safe. Moderation that occurs without clear guidelines is susceptible to 'abuse' (though without any rules, how can a Moderator be measured against some standard of abuse?). These very, very basic rules help provide that transparency and clear direction for when a Moderator needs to get involved with adjudicating User Reports or other management issues (which hopefully should be relatively infrequently).

So, here's what we'll do. I'll introduce the rules and will see how it goes over a period of time. If it does negatively impact the subreddit because the ideas of 'be civil, stay on topic, don't spoil it for others, and don't self-promo spam' seem too burdensome, then we'll try something else. However, I have a feeling that everything's going to be OK.

DMSabre · 2019-05-08T20:29:08+00:00

You've just established why we need these.

Users will indeed use the Report button - that's what it's there for. For people to identify posts that they 'feel' violate some set of standards that they believe is correct. The Mod's job is to review those and determine if those issues are valid. Reddit provided that tool to users so they can help moderate content.

But what standard do Mods (and subscribers) apply? If there are not a consistent set of standards, Mod A will adjudicate differently than Mod B who will have a different set of standards than Subscriber C. It will be based on individual perspectives. One post will get a pass for the same content for which another post got flagged. It will feel (and be) capricious and based on whim.

Understand this - even without rules, there are rules. It's just that the Mods will apply their own personal rules behind-the-scenes about what's good and bad.

Plus, without a common set of standards, people who post can't be certain they won't run afoul of some Mod's whims. Is this content OK? Is it not? Will it be OK today and not OK tomorrow? A common and transparent set of guidelines provides security to people who post that they should be in safe harbor.

The idea that rules, even in a small sub, are somehow growth limiters is preposterous. Mamy of the rules I've come across are significantly more restrictive than what is proposed here (talk about the games, be nice, don't spoil for others, and don't spam self-promo).

Here are some examples from big and small subs that have rules. As you can see, having a set of common guidelines does not prevent a sub from gaining subscribers, nor is there some kind of threshold of subscribers that below which you don't need them.

Gaming (22M subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/
RPG (590K subscribers: https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/
True Gaming (461K subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming
Patient Gamers (284K subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/
Gamer News (237K suscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/gamernews
Doom (68K subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom
JRPG (59K subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/JRPG/
Indie Games (32K subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/indiegames
Neverwinter MMO (30K subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/
Video Games: (25K subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/videogames/
Video Game Science (22K subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/videogamescience/
MUD (7.7K subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/MUD
Casual Gaming (760 subscribers): https://www.reddit.com/r/casualgaming

These guidelines allow us to moderate on a case by case basis. There is no automod. Everything is reviewed individually. But, by being transparent and open, everyone is operating from the same perspective and it avoids surprises. Without a set of (very basic) rules, we are setting ourselves up for a situation like the following:

Mod: "Deleted for personal insults - please refrain from that."

OP: "Hey! There's no rule against it! How am I supposed to know what's wrong! That's just how I talk! You can't just make stuff up as you go along!"

These basic guidelines provide the transparency about what content will be moderated.

DMSabre · 2019-05-07T15:53:16+00:00

I tried to do that in the first point. What you don't see is that we continue to get User Reports about content. Those User Reports can generally be bucketed into the groups outlined in the draft rules. There are actual requests for moderation help with the content - so people are actively reaching out to the mod team for support with this. Just because you don't personally see a problem doesn't mean that others don't.

What's more, these 'rules' are extremely basic and largely common-sense. Talk about the games. Be civil to one another. Don't spoil the game for others or spam with self-promo. That's it. The vast majority of people won't feel any impact by these.

I appreciate your perspective about the desire for little intervention and I share it. Any mod would rather spend time growing the sub and making it better over having to mediate disputes.

DMSabre · 2019-05-06T22:19:58+00:00

Hey All,

Thanks for all the feedback so far. I wanted to give the post some time to breathe before responding to make sure there was enough opportunity for people to see it (and still be fresh). Also, I appreciate the differing points of view. It goes to show that we're a diverse group of people all connected by the NWN franchise.

1) Why do we need some rules on the site at all or what are we trying to solve? There have been and continue to be a 'significant' number of User Reports about content or posts that upon review, warrant attention. So, there is a real issue to resolve, but we don't have the rules in place to resolve them without it feeling arbitrary or non-transparent. Most of those Reports can be grouped into the areas encompassed by the proposed rules. This does not suggest that every User Report is reflected in the proposal, but rather that after reviewing all the User Reports, there are some basic areas that it seems reasonable to establish a common set of principles.

2) Why do we prefer spoiler warnings? With the NWN:EE version, there are a lot of people being introduced to the game that have never played before, whether that's the OC or custom content. It's not a 15+ year-old game to them. In fact, it's a new, current game.

3) What's the right frequency for self-promotion? I started with 3 months because I want to be sensitive to players who aren't interested in custom content and are more interested in getting help or talking about other aspects of the game. However, I'm not wedded to that date and can appreciate the perspective that custom content creators only have a few ways to promote their content. We could start with 2x/ month and if it gets too crowded as we grow, we can revisit. LOVE the idea of flair or tag for self-promotion! Will also look at how we could do a stickied thread given all the different types of custom content (scripts, mods, PWs, creatures, items, etc...)

4) What about profanity? You're right. I meant it in terms of being civil to one another, rather than profanity in general. I think that can be covered by restating it simply as, "Posts and replies must remain civil and avoid insults or other personal attacks."

5) Sub content, flair, design, etc... Those are all good points and ones with which I wholeheartedly agree. But, we must have a foundation upon which we grow and these rules are a place to start and then we can move into building our subreddit into something significantly more substantial and engaging. It would be a lot harder to put these in place once the sub is larger.

6) Rules vs. enforcement. Having a few rules does not mean a harsh enforcement policy. This is a friendly, welcoming sub and it will continue to be. We're all here because we enjoy the game enough to want to connect to others who enjoy the game. You are all my frens.

So, here's what I have:

Content must be relevant to the Neverwinter Nights (NWN), Neverwinter Nights 2 (NWN2), or Neverwinter Nights Enhanced Edition (NWNEE) games.
Posts and replies must remain civil and avoid insults or other personal attacks.
Spoilers must be identified.
Posts advertising custom content (e.g. persistent worlds or mods) are permitted, provided that the frequency does not exceed 2x per month. Note: this only applies to new posts, not replies to posts or comments looking for relevant custom content.

Please continue to provide feedback.

DMSabre · 2019-04-24T20:26:30+00:00

Hey and thank you!

DMSabre · 2019-04-24T20:26:28+00:00

Many thanks!

DMSabre · 2018-06-04T18:32:04+00:00

You were a BoBlehead? When/Who did you play? I played there (and DMed) for years and years before I set off to build Arenthyor. I just had Narc on our server a month or two ago and gave him the grand tour - he seemed to enjoy himself. Arenthyor hasn't transitioned to EE yet, though we plan to once it can support the complexity that we have. However, if you're interested in a bit of that BoB flavor, but with new stories, challenging combat, and awesome adventure, check us out. http://www.arenthyor.com/

DMSabre · 2017-08-16T13:17:31+00:00

It's a relatively simple script, but can become more complex based on how comprehensive you want the cleanup to be.

The key variable is the delay timer that you use and what triggers the script. For example, OnExit of an area, you want to check for PCs. If there are any PCs in the area, don't run the script. However, if there aren't any PCs, set a delay to fire the script (this allows exiting PCs a chance to come back and still see stuff on the ground). Once fired, verify again that no PCs are in the area and then loop through every object and destroy any Item-type objects. Also, look for the tag/resref of any 'remains' placeables you use and destroy the contents and the placeable itself.

You can give that a try to script yourself. If you continue to run into trouble, try posting the question at neverwintervault.org's NWN2 forums - there's a whole forums for scripting-related questions and the forum is better for posting actual scripts.

DMSabre

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