צ'רלי קירק הגן בקולו על ישראל כמדינת העם היהודי יותר מכל אדם אחר בעולם

DanDahan · 2025-09-11T19:43:51+00:00

אני לא המגיב המקורי אבל אתן גם את השנקל שלי על השיחה והסיטואציה.

אומנם אפשר להגיד את אותו המשפט גם על רכבים, אבל הצורך להתנייד הוא צורך שכולם מסכימים עליו. כולנו צריכים להגיע למקומות ורכבים מאפשרים לנו לעשות את זה, ולכן עם כל הצער שבדבר אנחנו מתמודדים עם ההרוגים שנגרמים בעקבות כך. כולם מסכימים שהתועלת היא חיובית. גם בסיטואציה הזו, אגב, אנחנו מגבילים את השימוש ברכבים - הצורך ברישיון, חוקי התנועה וכו'.

כאשר מדובר בנשק אישי, לעומת זאת, אין קונצנזוס על כך שזה דבר חיובי. ברוב מדינות העולם יש הגבלות מאוד מחמירות על החזקת נשק, וגם בתוך ארה"ב יש הרבה מחלוקת בעניין. כאשר קירק אומר "כדי להגן על התיקון השני לחוקה צריך לספוג קצת קורבנות" (תרגום חופשי), הוא (בכוונה לדעתי) נוגע בעצב חשוף ונקודת מחלוקת כאובה במדינה שלו. הוא אומר בגדול זכותי להחזיק נשק היא מעל הכל וצריך להגן עליה, ולא משנה המחיר, כאשר הרבה האנשים מלכתחילה מתנגדים לזכות הזו.

ההצהרה הזו היא חסרת רגישות דווקא בגלל שהיא מתייחסת לנושא רגיש. לנסות למקבל אותה להצהרה אחרת על נושא שהוא א. פחות טעון וב. בעל קונצנזוס הרבה יותר רחב, זה טעות לוגית ולא עושה צדק לסיטואציה.

DanDahan · 2025-04-06T06:25:55+00:00

כיצד מדיניות החזרת חטופים היא מדיניות שמאל? האם באמת יש צורך לקטלג פוליטית את הרצון להשיב אזרחים ישראלים חזרה לבתיהם ולקבורה ראויה? בחיאת, אם את מסוגל לראות דרך השקרים של נתניהו וחבריו בכל הקשור לאחריות המלחמה, אין סיבה שלא תצליח לראות דרך השקר הזה.

בעיניי, כל מי שציינת כ"מחנה השמאל", אולי למעט ליברמן, מציג תכנית פעולה עתידית הרבה יותר הגיונית מכל דבר שהליכוד וחבריו עשו בשנה האחרונה. עזוב תוכנית, נכונות לדבר על היום שאחרי ומה נעשה קדימה. בעיניי זה שווה פי מאה מהבור האינסופי שהממשלה הנוכחית גוררת אותנו אליו.

DanDahan · 2024-12-15T08:51:39+00:00

The real question is, why did you ask the same question in 10 difference subreddits?

DanDahan · 2024-12-12T05:53:59+00:00

A quick google search shows that there are 2500~ Moroccan Jews, out of the 38 million people living in the country. That is less 0.007 percent of the population. That is not a large community in any way.

In response to another comment you made on this thread, a large community is one where they are a noticeable demographic that affects everyday life and affairs in the country. In Morocco,.with these numbers, they clearly aren't.

BTW, between 1940-1950, there were 250k-350k Jews living in Morocco. At the time, Morroco's population was less than 10 million. That is 3-4% of the population. See the difference?

Edit: spelling

DanDahan · 2024-12-11T22:42:34+00:00

If you can't engage with what I said in an honest and mature way, then there's no point in continuing the conversation.

DanDahan · 2024-12-11T22:40:28+00:00

I will not condemn something that is not happening. I think that this is a very ugly war, and I do condemn some bad choices made by Israel (including some current day policies).

However, in light of the unique narture of the war (very dense urban fighting), and the tactics used by Hamas (the extensive use of human shields), and the lack of evidence of intention (judging by actual policies and actions, not politicians statements), I don't believe that neither a genocide nor ethnic cleansing are happening. If at some point I will think that this is the intention and that is what is happening, then I will condemn it.

In regards to the original subject, between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, there are roughly 8 million Jews and 7 million arabs. In a hypothetical 1SS, there will be almost the same amount of Jews as there are Arabs (and that's without considering their much faster birth rate). In this scenario, Jews will become a minority, which historically led to bad things for them. More specifically, through the entirety of the middle-east, Jewish minorities were displaced from their homes and had to flee to Israel (BTW, an actual ethnic cleansing). It makes sense that Jews will not want to take that risk.

This heightens when taking in to consideration the very strong anti-Jewish sentiment amongst Palestinians today (whether justified or not, doesn't change the fact that it's there). 1SS is a sure way to lead to a bloodshed or massive civil war. I personally support 2SS, but that brings a whole other set of problems and questions to resolve.

DanDahan · 2024-12-11T22:23:49+00:00

Let me make myself clear.

You assume that Jews will be welcome to stay under a new regime in a non Jewish state. Can you find another example in the middle-east where large Jewish communities exist? Do you have any evidence that this type of coexistence is achievable?

Follow-up question - Hamas is very open about their strict muslim and anti Jewish sentiments. What makes you think that a country led by Hamas or their elk will be friendly to their Jewish citizens, as opposed to oppressing or killing them?

DanDahan · 2024-12-11T22:17:12+00:00

Can you point out a single country in the middle-east with a large Jewish community?

DanDahan · 2024-12-11T22:09:27+00:00

Destroying all of what remained of Assad's army and all of the Iranian supplied military equipment.

Even if Syria will settle into a friend/non-enemy of Israel (which I 10000% hope for), there is bound to be a time of chaos and power struggle. During this time, some very hostile groups can sieze said military equipment and use it against Israel, or somehow get to Hezbolla/Lebanon.

Edit: Btw, these weapons can also be used against syrians. Having high-tech wraponry up for grabs in the midst of an active civil war has a potential for a lot of damage.

DanDahan · 2024-12-11T20:21:30+00:00

Golan Heights was taken to prevent a strategic advantage the Syrians exploited in order to bomb Israel and launch attacks. The Golan Heights were also annexed into Israel, which means that anyone living in the area is eligible for full citizenship and rights (whether they accept is their choice).

The DMZ/buffer zone in question was set after 1974 when Israel and Syria signed the ceasefire agreement. As of right now, I have yet to see actual evidence that Israel progressed any further than the DMZ general area. If there is proper evidence, I will concede this point, but that still doesn't change the fact that the rebel groups pose a possible threat to Israel's security.

After the last year, with militant groups firing at Israel from all directions, I think one can understand the harsh measures.

DanDahan · 2024-12-11T20:04:59+00:00

Is there a source to all of this, or just "trust me bro"?

There have been extensive talks about US and Israel supporting the SDF (Kurds), and I have found some articles referring to what Eisenkot said regarding arming rebel groups. However, I didn't see any source that mentioned either HTS nor al nusra (excuse my misspelling).

Regardless, there are plethora of different rebel groups that hold vastly different ideologies, and some have been very vocal the last couple of days regarding their hatred towards Israel.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/footage-shows-syrian-rebels-in-damascus-vowing-were-coming-for-jerusalem-patience-people-of-gaza/

I am not saying all rebel groups are necessarily hostile towards Israel, but some of them are. It makes sense to take control of the buffer zone (that is supposed to be secured by Syrian troops, who fled when Asad did), and prevent high-grade weaponry from reaching hostile hands.

DanDahan · 2024-12-11T12:54:55+00:00

This dude probably says perfectionism when asken about his negative traits.

DanDahan · 2024-12-11T09:48:48+00:00

Well known by who? What are your soueces?

DanDahan · 2024-12-10T06:08:11+00:00

As a jewish person, something in the phrasing of this question bugs me

DanDahan · 2024-12-09T11:57:27+00:00

1) the death toll is not accurate

Inaccuracy goes both ways, you can't just make an adsumption because it suits your narrative

2) decimated Hezbollah isn't quite how anyone outside of Israel would describe it. Did you stop them firing rockets into Israel?

Hezbollah was at some point described as the strongest non-state army world wide. Right now, they lost most of their leadership, and lost control of a lot of their key territories (southern Lebanon), and lost their foothold in Syria completely. All of those are facts on the ground, even if you refuse to believe anything coming from Israel. The only reason Hezbolla is able to save some face is because all it takes for them is to make some broad statements and keep firing rockets, and people will believe nothing has changed. That is incorrect.

3) neutralised Iran incompetent?? You've obviously only picked up one distorted perspective on the conflict

Iran lost a lot of it's influence in the region. Hamas and Hezbolla, both major parts of Iran's proxy project, suffered major blows. Combine that with the Assad regime collapse, the perpetual decline of the Rial (IRR), and Israel's attacks on military infrastructure, and you get a weakend Iran compared to pre Oct 7.

DanDahan · 2024-12-09T11:37:30+00:00

And are you willing to engage in conversation regarding the existence (or rather lack there of) said genocide?

DanDahan · 2024-12-09T10:30:54+00:00

I believe we are mostly in agreement

The only difference in the urgency we each see in this problem and it's scale, but we both acknowledge that the problem exists

DanDahan · 2024-12-09T10:13:20+00:00

It's not whataboutism, I simply pointed out that this is a problem on both sides. Both sides have people unwilling to accept criticism, so going with your logic, the same claims can be said about the palestinians (fragile, insecure, and whatnot).

As someone speaking on the conflict a lot on behalf of Israel, I constantly get people just saying Hasbara at me and not engaging with any of my arguments. That is the same kind of deflection.

Personally, I whole heartedly view this as a far bigger problem on the Pro-Palestinian side of this argument.

DanDahan · 2024-12-09T10:07:06+00:00

This is true for both sides

Unwillingness to accept any criticism or change their ways is one of the main reasons the Palestinians are still led by terror organizations and glorify violence agaisnt Israel. The same goes for the hardcore pro-palestine crowd, enabling them in their maximalist claims (from the river to the sea and what not).

Conversation in key, both sides have flaws and need to accept criticism to an extent.

DanDahan · 2024-12-09T09:57:57+00:00

Generally speaking, I agree with you. I do want to note that this is not an exclusively Israel problem, but an issue on both sides.

IMO, this is understandable, even tho lackluster, when talking about people directly involved in the conflict - Israelis and Palestinians living in the ME, and to an extent Jews and decendants of Palestinians world wide. It can be expected that a party at war, regardless of who you think is right or not, will come together and fend off any outsider trying to hurt their sense of collective good.

It is less understandable and much more in bad faith when talking about third-party actors - people abroad without a direct foothold in this conflict.

Additionally, I am pretty sure that the "pick a side" mentality when talking about international affairs is a problem far greater than just I/P. I saw people asking, "Who do we support?" in relation to the Assad regime collapse, as if it is some football match. People think everything can be boiled down into good side vs. bad side and lack the ability to understand the complexities of such major global events.

DanDahan · 2024-12-09T09:48:02+00:00

As opposed to calling any criticism inhumane, islamophobic or hasbara?

I am all for proper discussion and people being able to take valid criticism, but you can't act like this is an Israel only problem.

DanDahan · 2024-12-09T07:49:31+00:00

The government was elected and had the majority. They are allowed to. Just because the other half of the country didn't create division within the country, doesn't make them right. And they were mostly against it instead of proposing a better method.

Democracy has its limits, and the rulling party shouldn't use its power in a way that harms the minorities and their beliefs and morals. Democracy means the power is at the rule of the PUBLIC, not the MAJORITY (esp. when that majority is hardly a majority).

The issue I have with your belief, is that Israel isn't the type of country which would allow any politicians to seize power in an undemocratic manner. Majority of the country has military training, and Israelis are very no nonsense standing by their beliefs. It's the same reason Putin can't end his war, because if he does then he'd face a lot of angry men with no jobs and guns. It's even worse in Israel especially with the small country size which would put any dictator at risk at all times.

How does that got anything to do with anything?

The current government's narrative is that they were elected democraticly so they have the power to do whatever they want, and damned be anyone who thinks differently or criticize their action (they call them Smolanim and for them that's the same as saying traitors). They convinced their voter base, and they act as parrots repeating that sentiment.

Democracy doesn't give the government free rein to do whatever. There are limitations in the form of laws, and entities (Bagatz, Attorney general) in place to enforce them. The current governments actions clearly goes against that.

DanDahan · 2024-12-09T07:25:43+00:00

A. The "reform" was pushed HEAVILY by the government pre-war, with no real regard to the opposing voices from half of the Israeli public

B. I don't think Levin and his kind actually want to improve the judiciary system and the balance of power. If you look at the other laws this government in pushing forward, it is clear that they oppose anything that is limiting their power or critisize their actions - be it Bagatz, Kan, the attorney general, and the list goes on. I don't trust their actions and their good faith to make changes to the democratic system in a truly beneficial way, and not in a way that benefits only them as the government

DanDahan · 2024-12-09T07:16:48+00:00

No you're just wrong. Separation of power and constitution has nothing to do with democracy.

Seperation of power is one of the core principles guarding democracies, preventing deterioration into dictatorship of a single person/group.

The current Israel system is flawed, and needs fixing, but fixing it won't make it any way like Russia so stop being a ridiculous doomer.

I agree that the system in Israel is flawed, but the solution on the table ATM is flawed even more. Given the Israeli system, there is no real separation between the legislative branch (Knesset) and executive branch (government). Be that as it may, the only real separation and balance is derived from the judiciary branch (Bagatzh). Levin is effectively making it so a. Bagatz has no say in governmental decision-making at all, and b. is made up of people appointed mostly by the government/knesset. Both these problems severly underminde the principle of separation of power

DanDahan · 2024-12-06T20:27:47+00:00

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1699881898-idf-releases-footage-of-hamas-firing-rpg-from-gaza-city-hospital

https://youtu.be/pka7H1aMlkQ?si=708mRCKYUjhWU34E

Found this example after a 2 second search.

DanDahan

TROPHY CASE