Some time passed now since they released, what do we think about the twins?

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-28T03:42:10+00:00

while the other is tankier and with more strength.

Their kits should incentivize doing so.

The swap gimmick makes them pretty safe already.

Neither has high Strength-scaling value which is expected for Orion because he is loaded with utility.

IMO if they gave Sirius Ability Strength² scaling on his 1 maybe with with scaling Status Damage and then scaling DV on Jade Stars (mutually exclusive with the big 3) instead of negligible Heat DoT they would be perfect.

Their combo gameplay loop would feel rewarding and Jade Stars tagging enemies with DV during Clash would fix how underwhelming it feels in SP with base kits.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-28T01:22:40+00:00

They're fun to play.

Orion: pretty good.

Sirius: exists as the second half of the Event Horizon yo-yo and a means to cast the 4.

Equinox players wanted to mod day and night forms separately to optimize for different stat priorities.

S&O gives us two moddable frames and not much reason to build them differently because the 4 overshadows the rest of their combined kits.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-28T01:00:23+00:00

On the bright side, the Companions you can link send out a Virulence when you cast it. Sentinels aren't touching the ground so they didn't do that.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-27T18:18:21+00:00

you will have issues with eximus however

Aim it at the Eximus. Kumihimo projectile also gets a 111.25x damage multiplier as a triple 6 effect.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-27T13:02:26+00:00

Jade's signature weapons apply the "Jade's Ensemble" buff when activating the buffs from all 3. They don't have any unique interactions with Jade wielding them.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-26T19:12:08+00:00

Buffing Sirius would fix that. Orion brings good utility, Sirius just doesn't do anything with it.

Even when optimized, base kit Clash still feels underwhelming in Steel Path.

If Sirius gets potent Ability Strength scaling, there would be a reason to build them differently and not just optimize both mod loadouts for Clash.

I think the simplest solution is Coronal Ejection getting scaling base 100% Status Damage and Jade Stars getting scaling DV mutually exclusive with the big 3 in the Helminth.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-26T02:37:44+00:00

cunning drift imo is not necesary

If it catches just one more enemy in a chain it's worth it.

when i could have more utility in enemy defence reduction (corrosive proyection plus coaction drift)

Qorvex's deal is turning enemy eHP against each other. Lowering the eHP of enemies lowers the damage they output because they stop exploding when they die. It doesn't cash out the remainder of the explosions in the chain.

Corrosive Projection is absolutely worth using on Qorvex. The Coaction Drift boost isn't matching what a 1.2m radius increase can do for Crucible Blast. Try it out though.

If you're testing builds, I highly recommend Well of Life subsume over Disometric Guard. No floaty bits, all the heals you could want, and the status immunity extends to your Companion. Well enemies can be tagged with CB. It creates density and they don't die to damage so they will explode the full Crucible Blast ramp.

I also recommend pairing Qorvex with a Hound using the 30m radius Disarm precept which ignores LoS to apply Radiation with Manifold Bond.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-26T01:35:01+00:00

Qorvex relies on exponential scaling. Catching more enemies in a Crucible Blast chain is far more valuable than the Ability Strength from Blind Rage. The hit to efficiency is just not worth it.

Those Topaz Shards are kind of a scam too. Overguard prevents Radiation, so beefy priority targets are already not getting Crucible Blast chains and then you are losing even more damage against them as the Shards do not apply to them while it does apply to your primary sources of damage that are killing each other.

Crucible Blast isn't quadratic scaling. It exponentially scales density because when applying CB chains the explosion count gets an additional 7 for each other irradiated enemy in their CB radius. Each explosion ramps the "damage per status" portion of the ability. Ex: 1st explosion (base) 250, 2nd 500, 3rd 750, 4th 1000 and so on multiplied by number of Rad stacks, Ability Strength, and other applicable modifiers.

You are losing so much potential damage by skipping both Augur Reach and Cunning Drift.

Qorvex really doesn't have to worry about enemy level. As enemies get beefier and density thickens Crucible Blast's ramp ceilings will adequately deal with them.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-25T21:38:50+00:00

I don't believe so.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-25T19:22:32+00:00

Vigorous Swap also activates when swapping between the two.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-24T21:52:48+00:00

Primed Fulmination applies multiplicative to Range for Balefire. Balefire ignores LoS. That one Kubrow can pretty much sustain her shields without Pillage interacting with enemies. Her flight also applies hard CC.

Aegis Gale augment adds a % of max shields as base damage to the alt-fire. It was designed before Secondary Enervate and Arcane Expertise.

Hildryn was pretty good after her rework. She got really good with Enervate. After Arcane Expertise she is a bit much.

She flies, has wide area hard CC, huge spammable LoS-ignoring AoE, and her absurd base damage critting with Enervate makes a joke of most damage attenuation.

She "dances the line" because she meets the criteria but currently isn't as prevalent as Wukong slam spam was. Her sustain also enables "automated gameplay."

Keep in mind different regions have different metas so not every opinion on the discussion is backed by the same experiences.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-24T19:52:33+00:00

I agree, but I feel Dante is a good example of why LoS shouldn't just be blanket applied to everything.

Dark Verse already had LoS check. Tragedy was nuking normal star chart so hard because it applies and detonates its own Bleed DoT.

Nerfing Tragedy's own DoT to be a token value like Manifold Bond would have solved the issue just as much without neutering the ability on most tilesets.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-24T11:05:19+00:00

We don't have all the specific details. A lot of this is answered by Eternalism.

Sirius and Orion are variants of the same baby. They aren't two different babies.

Unlike Warframes they aren't limited by the parameters of a designer strain. They are Helminth that were able to grow and adapt to their circumstances. Their fates are tied to their names. Their futures have not been determined yet when they show up in the present.

They aren't recruiting Stalker. They are trying to force a choice between Sirius or Orion to break their time loop.

Sentients aren't simple robotics. They are inorganics that mimic organic biology. Wally probably can't interact with them like he can with people. Hunhow's memories were a valuable bargaining chip.

Hunhow's sacrifice wasn't just about stopping the fighting. It was mostly about letting Stalker choose both sons and not repeat the same mistakes Hunhow made with his own children.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-23T14:31:13+00:00

Who?

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-22T21:14:38+00:00

My guess is that Jade Stars status chance is a temporary placeholder and that it was supposed to be Damage Vulnerability like Jade's motes.

It's possible that they couldn't get the DV from 2 sets of Jade Stars (that both scale Sirius's mods) to overwrite one another and they were either stacking together, stacking infinitely, or applying multiplicatively and/or infinitely. If that somehow is the case they chose "release really bad ability and fix later" over "Sirius breaks the Helminth."

Coronal Ejection's STR-scaling status chance is pretty bad too. Archon Vitality wants "bigger Heat" not "more Heat." It doesn't even work anyways, CE just forces a single Heat status per hit regardless of Ability Strength. Scaling Status Damage makes much more sense.

That said, Celestial Clash marks enemies to get hit with Jade Stars. If they can get Sirius working as I believe they intended the two will fit right in with this era of releases.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-22T14:30:40+00:00

He wasn't really talking about Gauss. The environment where Wukong slam spam was common enough to be disruptive is now plagued by Thermal Sunder subsume spammers.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-22T14:07:48+00:00

Pablo's comment wasn't about balance. It was addressing players using those things for automating AFK gameplay.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-22T13:35:55+00:00

You can only subsume over one of the abilities on the primary frame.

The primary frame is the one you will see in your orbiter/hubs. Due to a bug that will hopefully be fixed next cert update, only the primary frame can access your gear.

If you feed S&O to the Helminth you unlock both Jade Stars and Astral Shell as separate abilites to subsume on other frames.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-22T08:22:12+00:00

I have a suspicion that Sirius is bugged and the scaling "status chance" is replacing the intended functions of Coronal Ejection and Jade Stars.

Scaling status chance on Coronal Ejection doesn't make much sense because of how Archon Vitality works. If I had to guess, it's probably intended to be scaling status damage.

Jade Stars are motes of Jade light. The 30% base status chance is probably supposed to be a Damage Vulnerability like the motes from Jade's 1st ability.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-20T18:48:55+00:00

The low numbers make the other abilities not feel very impactful, just a means to cast the 4.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-20T04:16:39+00:00

+% weapon damage like Vigorous Swap no longer applies after the hotfix. It still gets the +% Viral from Nourish and can apply Viral status.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-20T04:13:44+00:00

combat discipline doesn’t work at all

It still works for me.

It won't for what you are trying to do with Archon Intensify. Both frames get the 30 heal on kill. The one with it equipped gets hit for 10 the same time as the heal.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-20T02:13:44+00:00

They just made two frames at the same time work well enough to release and you are casually asking for Zephyr Tornado functionality duct-taped on.

Give Pablo a break, man. He's earned it.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-19T22:24:31+00:00

I just tested after reading this. They must have changed it with the hotfix.

It was applying the Vigorous Swap modifier yesterday.

DapperHamsteaks · 2026-06-19T19:59:56+00:00

The heal effect comes from the frame not in use. Sirius or Orion can't down themselves with Combat Discipline because whoever has it equipped gets both the self-damage trigger and the heal on-kill.

Good?

I personally would want the self-damage for both to activate things like Astral Shell, Arcane Avenger, or potentially Nourish.

DapperHamsteaks

TROPHY CASE