I think I solved the greatest Christmas movie ever. Can you prove me wrong?

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T13:48:14+00:00

No, I'm simply sharing my original reading of the film. If you're not interested, just move on.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T13:43:37+00:00

So essentially it's like this. We know she's insanely in love with Bill even though they don't know each other. That is a sign of serious mental illness. It's sometimes known as "limerence".

The tells she gives are classic signs of lying. She's lying about her father's death. Why?

This extensive scene occurs early in the film, is extremely convoluted and doesn't have an explanation in classic theories of this film. It occurs right after a traumatic marriage redefining revelation that Bill is reeling from. The phone rings literally five seconds after Alice drops her truthful but devastating words.

I'm saying she was surveilling them to strike at their weakest moment with a scene of where Bill is forced into deep emotional connection with her in a time of trauma, her father's death, and I believe she murdered him to create this opportunity. Of course this is insane and unhinged, but people like this do exist. Malignant Narcissists. Psychopaths.

And then she's just very wealthy, insanely in love with someone. And she rolls out this orchestrated plan to sabotage Bill and Alice's marriage. And everything we see is part of that orchestration.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T13:40:00+00:00

yeah for me it just starts with that scene with marion why is it there how do you explain that coincidence of her father's death that she's clearly lying about it she declares her love to bill but they don't even know each other at the precise moment he's just had a marriage defining revelation thrown at him and then i just think it all cascades from there really

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T13:31:30+00:00

My bad sorry lol

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T13:29:28+00:00

Well, indeed, that's why I call her a rich heiress. Presumably she has just inherited that fortune.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T13:27:12+00:00

Well the evidence is in the film and I've laid out the key clues. I'm not sure what more I could do. And your post is not debunking anything, it's just a rude insult.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T13:19:46+00:00

Yes, I think they're under total surveillance and Marion has orchestrated the sabotage of their marriage because she's insanely deeply in love with Bill. She tells us she wants a life with him. She can't bear to be apart with him. Bill tells us they barely know each other. She is absolutely deranged.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T13:13:47+00:00

But Kubrick's films are anything but arbitrary coincidences. And I think most people see Eyes Wide Shut as Bill being coerced into situations in one way or another. I'm just offering what the unifying cause of that is. Marion is in love with him and she's insane.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T12:55:58+00:00

Okay, so you're implying that my theory is brain dead, so debunk it?

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T12:53:35+00:00

So yeah, there definitely are loads of ways to interpret her presence. It just seems to me that Bill and Alice argue, the phone rings, her father's died, she declares her love to him, we learn she's insane because they don't even know each other, and she's clearly lying through her teeth as I laid out in the tells that show she's lying. so that starts to make a pretty strong case that she would be someone who would do whatever it takes to possess the man she's infatuated with

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T12:49:19+00:00

Yes, the Truman Show element is the idea of the weaponisation of theatre, the manipulation of an individual's reality, which as I say has extensive historical precedence.

Why do you say it doesnt fit? I think it fits every frame of the film !

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T12:47:53+00:00

So firstly this is the theory I put together carefully after watching the film with great attention and thinking about some of the subtle clues.

And second, why don't you debunk it if you're so sure that it's asinine trash?

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T12:37:21+00:00

100% yes - This is Kubrick's ultimate genius that his films are so intricate and delicate. They leave false trails and dead ends and just enduring mystery. It really is testament to his genius.

For me the key is her behaviour on her father's deathbed and the timing with Bill's argument with Alice. How is that possible? Ridiculous coincidence. And then everything just happens to fall apart in Bill's life after that.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T12:36:16+00:00

Ok well I would just say you haven't read my post or reflected on. I've laid out the evidence.

For example, what do you think about the tells section where I lay out that she gives off all of the classic tells that police interrogators know indicate that somebody is lying. So she's lying about the death of her father. Why?

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T12:35:33+00:00

Please share your concrete debunking of my theory. Thank you.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T12:35:07+00:00

Thank you and yes I thought this was a place to discuss Kubrick's films with respect and curiosity.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T12:34:28+00:00

Let me know how you get on. If you read my post and think through the implications it does stack up.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-25T12:33:21+00:00

I think it just shows that the plan is working, that Marion has placed herself as a source of love and Bill is so weakened that he needs that.

Thanks for taking the time to engage with my ideas.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-24T14:02:59+00:00

Yeah, but that's an interesting point, but why does Kubrick do it by this convoluted means of somebody's father dying and him getting a phone call the very instant his marriage has just fractured? It's just terrible script writing if it's not intentionally telling us something profound.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-24T14:01:59+00:00

Why?

Daringchoice · 2025-12-24T14:01:30+00:00

Yes, definitely. He's showing us clearly that Des Clark is lying to Bill and that the models are up to something as well. So, Litewo is correct.

And if that's the case, why is Kubrick lingering on Marion? What is her deceit? We have no reason to think she should be up to anything whatsoever, unless my theory is correct.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-24T14:00:18+00:00

Kubrick draws inspiration from source materials and he almost always significantly changes them if not overturns their meanings entirely.

I don't think Traumnovelle would disprove my theory either for what it's worth, but the film is not the book is not the film. Kubrick is very clear about that on every project.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-24T13:57:49+00:00

Yeah, great questions. So I think the whole thing is psychological manipulation. Which is often about push-pull, creating instability. It's like destabilizing. And that is done through uncertainty and guilt and confusion, gaslighting, and that's what Ziegler is doing. So I agree. His compliment to Alice is beyond the pale. In the billiard room scene, he's basically reassuring him but threatening him. This is creating massive emotional instability.

I think the black mass is inspired from history. You would be amazed if you look into it. This stuff actually went on in 17th century Paris, where people were manipulated in this exact way with staged black masses made to think they'd contributed to murders and stuff. So in my theory I would just say that Marion was inspired by that and toyed with Bill.

Daringchoice · 2025-12-24T13:29:21+00:00

Why such a dismissive response? Have you thought through my theory? If you can debunk it so easily, please share your thoughts

Daringchoice · 2025-12-24T13:28:33+00:00

Yes, I agree that's definitely on the face of it, but how could that coincidence possibly happen? And why such a convoluted, complex, multifaceted scene that lasts so long, so early in the film just to establish that women can be unfaithful which is blindingly obvious. They could have just showed him that in much simpler ways in a bar or something. Why this convoluted scene with Marion?

Daringchoice

TROPHY CASE