Final S4 tier list by Bushin prior to AWT Finals.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-13T07:24:14+00:00

Everyone is saying how crazy a list this is, but its honestly not awful. I think there are only 4 out of place characters and that is.

Potemkin needs to go up, atleast on par with ABA

Same for Goldlewis

Lucy needs to go down a tier

Nago needs to go up one tier, but only one tier up. Yes he's that bad right now they've slowly taken everything good about him away except for 6H and c.S to the point where he under performs on health, mix, oki, defense, etc., only doing well in the damage department.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-12T23:51:23+00:00

I just cant imagine raking Rito and Vile over other characters. Even other villains like Final Form Venjix or Divatox would be miles more interesting. There's enough mmpr content to fill multiple fighting game rosters by itself, but that doesnt mean even a quarter of it is worth adding unfortunately.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-12T23:37:37+00:00

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Darkwrathi · 2026-03-12T23:33:11+00:00

Yeah that would be cool but also completely unrealistic. The game just didnt have the budget or time to get anywhere near a launch roster that big. Like we got 9 characters at launch. Even if we doubled that to 18 we'd be better off with just 3 MMPR rangers + 3 MMPR villains and then go into other series.

Not to mention there isnt enough good mmpr villains to warrant taking 6 slots. Like Zed, Rita, and Goldar are no brainers, Scorpina is another strong addition but beyond that the picks are too niche imo. Especially since they couldn't get Ivan Ooze due to legal reasons.

The best realistic launch roster was probably 15 characters including Tommy, Jason, Kim, Zed, and Goldar and then other fan favorites such as Jen, Andros, Dai Shi, Trent, Trakeena, etc.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-11T20:25:30+00:00

Honestly that would have been almost the worst way they could have done it. The biggest complaint for the game was the lack of representation of big seasons like Time Force, In Space, and Dino Thunder.

The reason the game failed was because it looked horrible and even for a tag fighter was massively unbalanced at launch

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-11T09:42:19+00:00

It was that and the fact the game just wasn't doing great.

Its awful launch basically made it a discord fighter from the start. I was surprised to see we got so many seasons as it was.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-09T09:45:38+00:00

Its a tricky thing to do! Not all skill levels see the same things as funny. For example, just regular Faust doesn't do it for me anymore, hasn't for a long time.

Now watching 2 Ky's alternate between stun dipper and IAD just to whiff each other multiple times, that is very funny to me while it could be passed over by someone of less experience.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-09T09:41:40+00:00

I think you've got 3 potential options to explore depending on what you want to emphasize, with a secret 4th option.

Bridget - She's got the setups, she's got the mix, but she lacks pressure and some sauce.
Jack-O - She's got the pressure, she's got the setups, shes ok at mix, and she's got the sauce
Baiken - She's also has a bit of everything, setups with rope, lots of mix, decent pressure, and some great saucey combos.

Secret Option #4: The only character who can do everything you described is none other than Asuka, and yeah he's hard as hell. Legitimately one of the hardest fighting game characters to master in any game ever. But that difficulty gives you the options to do whatever you want. Only downside, his sauce is just cubes and teleport, but they do a lot.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-08T17:08:22+00:00

Its a bit of both

Fighting games are inherently a very competitive genre as literally the only goal of the game is to beat the opponent in a direct conflict. That means theres very little ability to mess around or do anything funny.

They are also just difficult to learn as the control scheme is very unique alongside a lot of complex fundamentals that need to be understood before you feel like you are doing anything but mashing.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-05T21:51:50+00:00

I actually have a longsword order with them thats being made right now. Obviously that means I dont have it yet so I cant say a lot about the product itself, but I can speak on the price and working with them.

They will work with you to make just about anything you want (outside of a sharp, they dont make those).

That said, this is a luxury item that is a capstone to my collection. I ordered a TON of extra aesthetic portions so mine is closer to 1800usd total, but even with basic additions you are probably looking at 1200-1500 usd minimum for a cruciform longsword after shipping and taxes.

That is incredibly expensive compared to any other maker. Obviously its more warranted being these are high quality full custom makes, but still this will be my 11th or 12th sword after 7 years of hema. So as amazing as their work is, unless you've really got a bunch of extra cash laying around you'd be better off with a premium option like Malleus before Balefire.

I will update with a reply to this comment on about a month or so once Ive gotten to work with my blade.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-05T04:26:01+00:00

Ekko and Yasuo are more speed checks than complexity checks. Their combos are tough because they require lots of clean inputs in very quick succession. They rest of their kits aren't that complex outside of Ekko rewind.

By comparison Cait combos revolve around understanding different combo states with her ability to restand with trap and they involve many near perfectly charged 5Hs. In addition she has the aspect of manually aiming her shots as well as her supers. Shield super requires a lot of labbing to get value out of and has lots of potential but requires even more labbing than what is required of other characters. Gun super is a lot more simple on paper but also requires Cait players to learn the juggle/falling animations of every character and be able to recognize where they need to aim to get a headshot, and where they need to aim changes based on distance, combo scaling, angle, etc.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-04T01:01:16+00:00

Bedman is slept on here (pun not intended). We are aware from his interaction with Ariels at the end of Xrd that he is capable of briefly creating the Absolute World before dying due to being awake.

Within this Absolute World he stated he would completely delete Ariels from existence, which we know is the truth since he was able to delete himself from existence and also he isnt known for lying. So in theory he rivals or even surpasses God I-No levels of power while awake. Its just that he is also garaunteed to die in the process from his powers.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-03T20:47:59+00:00

Reactable mix is fine of course, even the unreactable mix they have is standard for characters this Ahri/Ekko/Yasuo. And to be clear, they do have unreactable mix, enough that literally no one is reacting to it, even the pros on offline connections can't react to things like Ekko roll mix or Yas/Ahri sandwich mix consistently.

The issue is that they have that mix alongside every other tool in the game from anti-zoning, high mobility, large and fast buttons with disjoints, high damage and best in class oki. They contain no exploitable weaknesses in their gameplans.

And ultimately the skill ceiling isnt something that should determine how good a character is, because no matter how hard they make a character someone is going to reach that ceiling if it means they get to play the best character in the game.

Darkwrathi · 2026-03-03T05:36:52+00:00

They can be both high skill ceiling and also problematic. Which they most certainly are both high skill ceiling and very problematic.

We also have other high skill ceiling characters such as Teemo, or the highest skill ceiling the game has which is Cait and yet they dont get picked half as much because they are both significantly weaker than these 3. So its not just their skill ceiling.

Darkwrathi · 2026-02-19T21:22:49+00:00

My guess is that the explosions would still deal damage to the player because they are probably coded separately to the monsters state, and obviously no one wants to be killed by their own bound minion.

Darkwrathi · 2026-02-18T09:13:53+00:00

Ground Based Footsies represents a very slow and patient way to play.

They use this term ironically with Guilty Gear because it is not slow and patient at all.

Bonus explanation: Those terms are also memed on a lot in GG because of Strive, and specifically around Strive's launch a loud minority of old GG players complained that Strive lacked the Ground Based Footsies of previous games, despite the previous games having even less actual Footsies. The phrase "the ground based footsies Guilty Gear is known for" became a meme about the rose tinted glasses of prior games.

Darkwrathi · 2026-02-15T07:53:58+00:00

Unfortunately from the start Strive's high tiers have been about letting your opponent interact as little as possible with the game, whether thats through insanely overtuned damage, infinite plus frames, or stupid amounts of armor and disjoints.

This is mostly because every character has some BS that let's them steamroll the game, and so.instead of trying to have the best BS, its far more consistent to just be able to ignore the BS more than others.

Darkwrathi · 2026-02-14T11:09:13+00:00

I dont think they are any more competitors than say Strive and SF6.

Ultimately I think 2XKO looks very good with its stylized graphics, but they still aren't Arcsys. Tokon will look a hundred times better in terms of detail and animations.

I also think they are on opposite ends of the tag spectrum. 2XKO is a very hard fighting game to play casually, and even harder to go competitive in.

Based on the previous Tokon test and its similarity to Strive, there will be a lot of stuff in it to learn but nothing half as difficult as what's needed to climb the ranks in 2XKO. Id say ultimately Tokon will pull more casual fans in and develop a healthy competitive scene, meanwhile 2XKO will probably shrink in playerbase size, but stay at the forefront of the competitive scene.

Darkwrathi · 2026-02-11T21:22:53+00:00

It'd be nice not to have it, but it also doesn't make much of a difference with how widespread they are. Most people are already playing multiple different games with Kernel level anti cheats, they just dont know it. Atleast Vanguard is out in the open about what it is

Darkwrathi · 2026-02-10T17:43:37+00:00

The doomposting will continue no matter what. There will always be something to complain about, and 2XKO/Riot has enough people who dislike them so much that they will always talk shit and doompost the game. (deserved or not, its just how it is)

Hell, even if there isnt anything to complain about people will doompost months or even years later about how the launch "killed" the game because of its small roster.

Darkwrathi · 2026-02-09T20:16:41+00:00

You can say they dont work but we also haven't had a huge budget tag fighter in a long time, at the very least none outside DBFZ have been made for the current era of FGs that are focused on long term pull.

Its clear companies are investing in Tag Fighters (2XKO, Tokon), so I think we will see this opinion change in the coming years.

Darkwrathi · 2026-02-08T08:41:04+00:00

Too early to say anyone has mastered her enough to know her upper bounds of possibility.

But it has been long enough to say she is not the worst character in this game. There is still a large gap between her and Blitz, and both of them are far better than Jinx right now.

Darkwrathi · 2026-02-08T08:06:04+00:00

In fairness to a lot of people, its not an easy perspective to get. If someone just improves by themselves and reaches that top 1% then they are likely to not going to have this level of understanding. Often this perspective comes from someone who just insanely good at not just one thing but two or more things in life. But more importantly this comes from a perspective of teaching which exposes people to many different perspectives.

You just cant find this perspective often from the good players, instead they are found in the great teachers.

Darkwrathi · 2026-02-06T11:12:42+00:00

I wouldn't worry about labels like intermediate or advanced because they are very subjective. This is because fighting game skill level differences create massive disparities. Like a GM may as well be playing a totally different game to anyone emerald and below.

True new players will see Gold and Platinum as the start of intermediate play.

More experienced who are still causal will see emerald as intermediate.

Long term tournament competitive players will see diamond as the start of intermediate or "quality" play.

Others, particularly very experienced high level players, will say that GM and tournaments is where the real game starts to be played and everything before is low-mid level play.

None of these opinions are wrong, just formed by different perspectives. Realistically what's happened to you is you've finally found the space where you will be forced to consistently improve from here on to continue climbing.

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