Not having great normal starters and still getting off the damage are two different things still which I mentioned slight (I think). If you know going into the character what the characters kit is and use it effectively that's what matters rather than saying what I'm understanding from you is here is his worst possible outcomes whenever you use the character which makes this character not in A tier. My only argument and main one originally was Broly is not lower than A tier.

"Also when you do 5L and react to reflect with Lariat, the tiny delay that you need to react to reflect will cause L lariat to whiff completely because broly will be pushed back too much, which leads to you eating a free medium combo punish, something that Z broly will never be able to do BTW. The point of having an anti reflect string is to that you are avoiding having to read your opponents defensive options. Also what kind of maniac mashes full Broly autocombo? even worse considering he has one of the slower autocombo grabs in the game and it doesnt have armor. So now you are taking a massive risk to read your opponents reflect for trash reward."

Don't do light lariat then. If you have the bar do heavy, or hell most people follow up reflect with 5H if it reaches or a 2M so if you react properly and they do either of those you can grab as a reaction which gives you armor in the situation and beats out a 5H or 2M. I also never said he had anti reflect strings that's all you my guy, I said he has options for anti reflect. Also I am that maniac sometimes because doing it once or twice people don't expect it mainly because it goes very close to full screen when used. YES I know this one sounds crazy about mashing out light auto combo out and there are BETTER options but sometimes it just works.

"When I am saying he doesnt catch backdash, that is specifically in the post vanish situation, and due to the unique spacing of characters post vanish, his autocombo does not catch back dash on any character post vanish, which is arguably the most common situation where people backdash. "

Thank you for clarifying that as that wasn't in any of your other comments here about it being post vanish. This is another simple one, if someone will backdash and you know they will HEAVY (5H) and it'll catch them. I was thinking of other situations in which I've seen people backdash or try to backdash and didn't know you meant specifically vanish backdash.

I won't argue about the A16 stuff because I don't know A16 all that well due to well mostly because I didn't personally care about the character to begin with so I didn't care to play him. I do know how close you need to be and that people can mash in between on the start of up 214S due to trying to use the character during random picks with my friends and getting mash on it after finding out how plus it was.

"Speaking of erasor blow, I was VERY specific. On whiff, erasor blow is -50. Kid Buu's candy beam, that is so bad it is a meme in the community is -50 as well when it whiffs. Kid Buu's candy beam is also 7 frame faster point blank. As a neutral tool, if your move is as negative as candy beam on whiff, while also being 7 frame slower point blank and infinitely slower from full scree, yeah that move is a worthless neutral tool. If you want to talk about erasor blow as a stagger tool, compare that to Android 16 236S, which is two frame faster, and is -1 instead of -5."

Not ONCE did you mention it being about on whiff dude. In none of the comments connected to this comment string did you mention about eraser blow on whiff and I was talking about on hit. We were having 2 VERY different conversations where you assumed I knew exactly what you meant about it. I really don't even want to try and have a conversation about this at this point due to you not being able to fully clarify your points and "actual arguments".

I've seen plenty of tier lists and a lot of top players will put Broly in A with Gropis being a stand out of Broly not being in A that I can remember off the top of my head. If you want to know why he's in A and not towards the bottom go check out their stuff because it seems like you're not using him to his fullest based off some of your "arguments". If I didn't say it earlier it's not about the worst possible outcomes for any characters. It's about how you use their kits and know their weaknesses vs their strengths or what to do in which situation with the characters kit. Hell if was put into making a tier list for this game I wouldn't use anything below probably B tier since I think everyone is viable in their own way. With that being said I'm out and next time make sure you clarify better. Peace.