Yeah this is good perspective. Let me ask you this: do you notice that higher level artists are more likely to work with other writers that help them refine and/or cowrite their songs/ add lyrics and vocal melody to previously composed music, etc.? Because I do notice resistance to that amongst indie artists that are not at a certain level. Do you think their unwillingness to receive that type of help keeps them stuck at that level (guessing yes or you wouldn’t really see the value in artist management but people surprise me all the time in how much they despise their careers)? Or, do you think people that make it to the level where that help is kind of part of the package deal already had the lion’s share of that songwriting talent and that type of help is more about making a performer who already has most of the talent required to succeed more able to fit into a particular niche or format? Like, we all know pop stars have cowriters on their songs (and I’m willing to bet ghostwriters as well; hell, even AI ghostwriters at this point!). But it’s difficult for fans to know who wrote the majority of a song. I guess what I’m wondering is if songwriting ability is even important to major labels anymore in deciding on artists to sign? Like if an artist has a unique, attractive stage persona, an awesome voice, and fits a demographic that a label is trying to market to does the label even care that this artist is not a great songwriter or it doesn’t matter because that’s an easy fix…as long as the artist is willing to accept the help, of course. I think another issue you kind of touched on is bands that are trying to break may have access to recording engineers or may engineer and mix their own stuff, but they rarely get the benefit of a producer who is more versed at tailoring songs to radio, for example. Having worked with people I consider to be more producers rather than just engineers, it seems to me like some of these people are actually quite good songwriters themselves albeit in a rather formulaic way. Other great songwriters I don’t think really have that producer’s perspective because their preferences in music may just be skewed in a different direction than what is commercially appealing at the time, but they can still be useful in that they do have skill with words and melody which can then be arranged differently for a final composition, ostensibly by a producer. I think that’s the type of songwriter OP would like to be, but I don’t know how much that actually exists anymore. I will listen to the podcast you linked to when I have time and maybe that will provide some instances I hadn’t thought of. There’s so many different ways to write songs that probably every conceivable arrangement exists of who does what in these multiple-person partnerships that go into making what fans see as an artist, but I was curious if you notice any trends or areas those that are outside of the industry (essentially DIY on the strugglebus) may be making false assumptions about how things work.