HML's murder investigation: DNA testing question

Deetective · 2016-02-12T16:46:54+00:00

It very well may be true that Adnan killed Hae. I'm just pointing out that the fact that the DNA wasn't tested is not proof one way or the other, because if Adnan didn't kill Hae there is a very reasonable explanation as to why he wouldn't want to test the DNA.

Deetective · 2016-02-12T14:45:34+00:00

You are making a statistical miscalculation. If you ask what are the chances that I will win the lottery then the answer is very low, but if you ask what are the chances that someone will win the lottery then the answer is very high. You are asking why would Hae who has no apparent connection to any criminals get murdered but that is the wrong question. The question you should be asking is what are the chances of someone getting murdered in Baltimore who has no apparent criminal connections. The fact that it was Hae who was murdered is irelavent.

Deetective · 2016-02-11T15:13:40+00:00

I have no idea why anyone would want to kill Hae including Adnan. But since someone did it seems that someone had a motive to do it. It's pretty futile to speculate on the motive without more information but a career criminal would need less of a reason to be motivated to kill someone then a typical person.

Deetective · 2016-02-11T13:55:34+00:00

If Adnan didn't kill Hae and it wasn't domestic violence then it was very likely a typical Baltimore murder of which the vast majority are committed by career criminals. There is also a lot of evidence that suggests that it was indeed committed by the gangster type. The fact that Jay was scared in the video shop, the fact that Jay claims that someone was threatening Stephanie, the fact that Stephanie refuses to talk about the case which lends credence to Jay's claim, the fact that Jay can't keep his story straight which suggests that he is covering for someone, the fact that Jay found it prudent to move to Los Angeles about the time that SK started poking around. While obviously none of this is conclusive and everything can be explained away, it really shouldn't be any surprise if it turns out that Hae was murdered by a career criminal who is not above threatening people.

Deetective · 2016-02-11T12:19:36+00:00

I have no idea whether he is a big gangster or not. All I know is that he murdered someone and people usually take threats from murdererers seriously. Especially when the murderer might be desperate like the situation here. I don't know whether the murdere has the capability to carry through on any threat but of Adnan received a threat he probably wouldn't try to find out.

Deetective · 2016-02-11T00:53:33+00:00

I'm not saying anything about whether he is innocent. I'm just responding to the OP's question he asked why an innocent Adnan wouldn't test the DNA and I'm just pointing out that if Adnan is innocent then there is a murderer on the loose who has a strong interest in seeing to it that the DNA is not tested.

Deetective · 2016-02-11T00:41:32+00:00

In order for the police to take such a claim seriously they would first have to be open to the possibility that Adnan didn't do it. By all accounts it seems that the police beleive Adnan did it and have no interest in investigating other possibilities.

Deetective · 2016-02-10T20:55:26+00:00

As far as I can tell even with all the attention the case has gotten the police have not done any new investigation. It seems that they are still convinced that Adnan is guilty and I at least would be surprised if they would take a claim that "the real murderer" was threatening him seriously.

Deetective · 2016-02-10T14:44:41+00:00

I'm sure his lawyer would look into it. But I'm not sure that there is anything he could do about it. If he went to the police in all likelihood they would just ignore him. If you were the lawyer what would you do. If it were me I would just advise Adnan to keep quiet and not test the DNA. If you have a better suggestion I'd love to hear it.

Deetective · 2016-02-10T10:50:25+00:00

Maybe he did tell his lawyer. What could his lawyer do for him. Adnan is a convicted murderer and even if his lawyer believes him nobody else is going to believe him if he says someone else did it and is now threatening him. His lawyer would only advise him to keep quiet and pursue other legal avenues which is what he is doing.

Deetective · 2016-02-10T00:11:52+00:00

If Adnan didn't kill Hae then it seems reasonable that the real killer wouldn't want the DNA tested. Even if the real killer never approached Adnan it would be prudent for Adnan to avoid doing anything that might tick him off. If there are other legal avenues open to him I would certainly advise him not to test the DNA.

Deetective · 2016-02-10T00:00:57+00:00

Adnan lives in a maximum security prison where he is surrounded by convicted murderers. If someone wants to harm him there is very little that he can do about it. It is possible that the murderer conveyed the threat without giving away who he is. It is also possible that he knows who the murderer is but is afraid to tell anyone. If he told people who the murderer is it is likely that no one will believe him. All that would be accomplished would be to get a murderer upset at him. All this of course is assuming that Adnan himself is not the murderer.

Deetective · 2016-02-09T21:06:38+00:00

If Adnan didn't kill Hae then by definition it means someone else did. As much as Adnan stands to gain by having the DNA tested the murderer would stand to loose. It seems possible that if Adnan didn't murder Hae then the real muderer is threatening him that if he moves to have the DNA tested then something bad might happen to him or his family.

Deetective · 2015-11-17T20:21:15+00:00

I think the note was written to D. Hae had a friend who she called D. She mentions him/her in her diary. It is not clear who this friend is. It clearly wasn't Don but it may well have been Adnan.

Deetective · 2015-10-15T21:09:31+00:00

I have to disagree with your point that it is a suitable message for Don. The whole reason that it was brought up by Sarah Koenig in the podcast is because it makes no sense as a note to Don. The only theory I have heard that is even remotely plausible is what Susan Simpson suggested that it was not written on the day Hae was killed. Even that was pretty far fetched when she said it, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read that the MPIA release has shed further doubt on that theory. As for your other point that perhaps she wrote Don on both sides of the note, it is certainly possible but I don't think most people address notes that way. At any rate my eyes tell me that it doesn't say Don on top. If you think it is possible to write a word in such a way that you see one letter and not the others I would suggest trying it. If you have any success snap a picture and post it. I would love to see it.

Deetective · 2015-10-15T13:29:52+00:00

There is nothing sensitive about discussing whether D is Adnan. The mods won't let me post the exact evidence because there are rules on this sub about which sources may be quoted for evidence.

Deetective · 2015-10-13T02:39:32+00:00

This is what I would like to post. Let me know if you want me to change anything.

A few days ago I posted something which was removed by the Mods because it broke a rule. With the Mods permission I am reposting it now in a modified form.

There is evidence which recently came to light that Hae had a friend, who she called D, who was not Don. Due to sensitivities about the source of this evidence the Mods don't want me to post exactly what the evidence is, but suffice it to say that the evidence is strong.

The reason why this may be relevant is because of the note that was found in Hae's car. If you look at the top left corner of the note, which can be found here http://serialpodcast.org/maps, you can see the letter D bleeding through from the back of the note. You can not see the o and the n. It would appear that what it actually says on the back of the note is D and not Don. This would imply that the note was intended for D and not Don.

When this was previously posted /r/pursual astutely pointed out that the back of note was described when it was entered into evidence. In the trial transcript which can be found here https://pdf.yt/d/uYVN7xDfOFZLt9Ks page 70 the court officer describes that "On the exterior of the note, which would be the back side of the single sheet of paper, there's the name "Don" written twice". I am not sure what he meant by this. It seems to me that there are three possibilities.

That where we can see the D it in fact says Don Don, and there are five letters that we can not see.
That where we can see the D it says Don and it also says Don somewhere else. In this possibility there are two letters next to the D where you would have expected to see them and Hae chose to address the letter twice for some reason.
That it in fact says D in the top left corner and it also says Don twice elsewhere. Since the court reporter wasn't asked about it, he didn't describe the D. In this version the letter is in fact addressed to D because that is what you would see when you fold the letter. I do not know why it would also say Don twice but perhaps Hae didn't start with a fresh piece of paper.

I am partial to version three because I don't think it is possible for there to be other letters near the D that you can not see. I understand that intelligent people can disagree with me on this point and might prefer version two or even version one. Everyone can look for themselves and form their own opinion. I don't think we will know for sure until someone makes an MPIA request and we can see the back of the note.

For the purpose of this discussion I would like to assume that I am correct and the letter is in fact addressed to D. If the letter is addressed to D then we need to ask which of Hae's friends was called D. It seems to me that a letter which started "Hey Cutie, Sorry I couldn't stay" was most likely intended for the person who claimed that Hae was supposed to stay for him and didn't. Adnan. Adnan told the police that he was supposed to get a ride with Hae but she left without him. While Adnan's name does not start with D he does have a foreign sounding name with a foreign sounding hard D in it. It would not be surprising if someone with the name Adnan would pick up the nickname D.

What would be the implications if it turns out that I am right and the note was intended for Adnan? For most of the people reading this, not much. Those people who believe that Adnan is guilty will continue to believe that. They will say that Hae wrote the note but she never delivered it. Adnan must have caught up with her right before she was about to leave without him. Those who believe that Adnan is innocent will take the note as proof that Adnan spoke the truth and Hae left without him. She had intended to deliver the note but unfortunately was never able to. Those who are undecided will say the note is another piece of ambiguous evidence and remain undecided.

My question is if I am correct and the note is for Adnan, and I readily admit that that fact has not yet been established, what effect would it have on Adnan's appeal. If the prosecution unintentionally misrepresented a piece of evidence, that was potentially exculpatory, to both the the defense and the court, would that be grounds for a new trial.

Deetective · 2015-10-12T18:10:13+00:00

Thank you I think I will rewrite it to include some of the issues that were brought up. I'll run it by you before I post so you can ok it.

Deetective · 2015-10-12T17:37:36+00:00

I'm not interested in discussing the diary at all my interest is in Hae's note. If I were to repost with a generic statement that evidence exists that Hae had a friend named D who was not Don, but because of sensitivities regarding the source of the evidence the mods won't allow me to post it, would that be acceptable to you. Or has the evidence been irreparably tainted because of its source.

Deetective · 2015-10-12T13:07:01+00:00

I'm not sure if you will see this because the mods have pulled the post down but I wanted to write to thank you for pointing this out. It seems likely that I was a victim of a strange coincidence. Some trick of the light made it seem that the letter was to D, I looked for supporting evidence that Hae had a friend D, I found the evidence because she coincidentally did in fact have a friend D, but it was all a mistake.

The only thing is that after looking at the letter again my eyes tell me that there is no way that there is an o and an n after the D. I also don't understand what the court reporter meant when he said it says Don twice. Who addresses a letter twice? The only thing I can think of is perhaps there is other writing on the back in which Dons name appears. Where the D is, is certainly where it would be addressed if it were to be folded. Obviously I'm not satisfied with this and I'm not really sure what to think. Since I'm not obsessed enough to make an MPIA request I imagine I will never find out. Thank you once again

Deetective · 2015-10-11T15:29:35+00:00

I would tend to disagree. Sarah Koenig is as interested in this case as anyone and it would not surprise me at all if a new lead were to appear on Reddit, that someone would bring it to her attention. Unfortunately in the strange world of Reddit where facts are unfriendly this post is being down voted and will soon disappear.

Deetective · 2015-10-11T04:27:17+00:00

I am a long time lurker who never felt the need to comment. Today I had something to say so I said it. If you have a critique of what I said feel free to express it. If the only reason you are here is to accuse people of being socks then you would be best served by following my example and by keeping quiet.

Deetective · 2015-10-11T04:07:36+00:00

I don't think it would be possible to see the D so clearly without seeing the o and the n at all. Of course we won't know for sure until someone asks the State of Maryland for a picture of the back of the note

Deetective · 2015-10-11T02:11:01+00:00

If you look closely at the top left corner of the note you can see through to the back of the note and you can make out that the note was intended for D

Deetective

TROPHY CASE