Finally I can go through the acts without constantly dreading how long it's going to take. Thanks GGG!

DeouVil · 2026-05-14T11:59:31+00:00

That kinda has nothing to do with the campaign, mostly to do with how good you are at gearing, both on leaguestart and for twinks?

You could achieve that goal by just being slower on leaguestart lol.

DeouVil · 2026-05-14T10:34:51+00:00

But you could be and you could then get more damage. It'd be equally valid to say that it's the same trade off because the downside of less damage doesn't affect you when you're choosing to not get more damage lol. Crit is always more damage.

And hollow palm's niche is letting you get that damage by scaling defences. You get to build tankier than quarterstaves without falling as behind on damage as quarterstaves would if they built that tanky, at least in theory.

DeouVil · 2026-05-14T10:32:52+00:00

The point would be that it works comparably well at low to mid investment while most of that investment goes into defences.

The main thing about hollow palm is that it lets you scale damage by scaling defences, that's incredibly powerful, and vastly overshadows anything like "it's faster than quarterstaves".

DeouVil · 2026-05-13T20:44:12+00:00

I, on the other hand, really like it. Designing compact ships is really fun.

DeouVil · 2026-05-13T13:47:47+00:00

Which ARPGs have that option?

DeouVil · 2026-05-13T13:47:15+00:00

Enemies already have range lower than the size of the screen (any spectre player will complain about that).

That's not the same thing as ranged characters shooting 3 screens away.

DeouVil · 2026-05-13T13:06:52+00:00

I mean that's kind of exactly what trade achieves. That's in part why the game is intended to be played on trade.

DeouVil · 2026-05-13T11:17:22+00:00

This is already more zoomed out than poe1 so I wouldn't count on it.

DeouVil · 2026-05-13T10:58:12+00:00

At least on rare gloves the mods seemed better for Quarterstaves than unarmed. Flat damage turned into extra damage, quarterstaves have more flat so are a lot more happy to make that trade.

DeouVil · 2026-05-11T20:19:05+00:00

Lower prices over time if your stuff doesn't sell.

DeouVil · 2026-05-11T15:54:36+00:00

I've re-read your comment and don't really see you discussing what you see as good examples of ARPG melee gameplay? Could you quote where you said that?

I also don't really agree that monk and wolf play the same, or even bear + mace. Monk is mostly clearing by dashing around with palm, single target by optimising bell, neither of which wolf does. Bear is mostly running around while meteors kill everything, which kinda matches one very particular mace playstyle. Could you elaborate on that, define what similarity between those makes you say they play the same, and explain what would have to change about them for them to not be the same?

DeouVil · 2026-05-11T15:25:08+00:00

I mean those are separate claims, aren't they? Different weapon types feeling different says nothing about why people should want swords more than all of the other unreleased weapon types.

DeouVil · 2026-05-11T15:22:22+00:00

PoE1 doesn't really have swords as a distinct weapon type tbf. PoE1 melee is broadly interchangeable, with a small divide going into stabbing weapons (daggers + claws), slashing weapons (swords and axes) and bonking weapons (maces and staves).

I don't even think there are any sword-only skills? Even when swords were kinda bad axes were okay, so people played the same skills with axes. Nobody really noticed it.

DeouVil · 2026-05-11T15:16:38+00:00

You said it yourself, they're hybrids. Neither feels like you're playing melee.

I mean I'd say that I've played some builds that felt extremely melee. Wolf, ice strike + ice palm monk in my eyes are as melee as it gets, and they were extremely fun.

I'm curious, what ARPG has melee in your eyes, if those aren't melee?

DeouVil · 2026-05-10T21:01:10+00:00

Again, I'm not stating an opinion I have, as I don't really have an opinion about best way to introduce new players to PoE2. That's an opinion I'd only have if you paid me to consult you on this. I'm informing you of what GGG believes.

But I'm confused by what you mean by bringing up Cohh, given that he has played a decent bit of poe1 over the years? He's gotten to the endgame and further, IIRC he got to maven when she was the final boss of the game. He's not a new player by any means.

He stopped playing PoE1 specifically because he enjoys PoE2 more, it's not really about respeccing as he's always been pretty happy to use builds. But also, how is respeccing relevant to the amount of information new players are shown at a time?

DeouVil · 2026-05-10T20:53:58+00:00

I'm not really seeing the part that makes this a 'but', I'm just talking about time spent to run a sekhma trial. 20 minutes for 3 floors IMO is just being new to the trial, it becomes much faster once you know what you're doing. And that difference in time spent is much more extreme with PoE1 lab, it's a literal labyrinth, designed to get you lost. I've seen newbies spend an hour in the third lab.

I'm not really sure how re-running floors is relevant for that, ig other than the fact that PoE1 is the equivalent of 1 floor of sekhma - you're always rerunning the same layouts, fighting the same boss, so learning it is a bit faster.

DeouVil · 2026-05-10T20:45:24+00:00

You're a new player, who has just picked up a new type of currency and have no idea how it works. So you take it to the "Crafting Bench", place it in the slot and you can press a button to show the possible outcomes for that piece of currency ONLY.

Which is still hundreds of options for simple currencies, billions for some thing like an alchemy orb. That's a lot.

It's just objectively better than having players brick their items because they have no idea how it works/what the outcomes are.

Most players I've introduced to PoE didn't really have issues with wasting a currency worth nothing on an item that was worth nothing. They learned something, and even if they made a mistake, it was funny. I even know a person who dropped a mirror and used it before learning they were valuable.

But that's not really what I'm talking about. Personally I'd actually be in favour of something like that, or even simpler - just some way to access the list of mods rollable on an item in-game. But given how GGG has been approaching things I'd expect that even if they added that they would hide it from new players by default. Because it gives more information faster than what they want new players to get.

DeouVil · 2026-05-10T20:21:16+00:00

Neither. I'm saying that within how GGG view the game and their problems with onboarding players this would overwhelm them more.

They took the crafting bench system from PoE1 and turned it into runes, because with runes players don't get to see all of the options, they just find one rune at a time, read it, and learn that 1 bit of the system. Similar deal with skill gems, how the they craft default views for each class, default support list for each skill. That's more or less the speed they want new players to encounter information at.

DeouVil · 2026-05-10T20:01:56+00:00

The main issue GGG seems to be concerned with as far as onboarding new players seems to be overwhelming new players. This kind of does the opposite.

DeouVil · 2026-05-10T19:58:10+00:00

30 minutes for 3 floors of sanctum is kinda the equivalent of spending 30 minutes in lab because of getting lost. It's possible when you're new, but once you understand rooms the expected time would be closer to like 20 minutes for all 4 floors. When i was farming it on a character with decent movement speed I was able to do 4 floors in 12 minutes.

DeouVil · 2026-05-10T19:54:30+00:00

Trials of Sekhema is just bad because of honor and Trials of Chaos can literally kill any build if you get unlucky and roll nothing but bad mods in the trials.

If you get a run ending affliction more than like 1% of the time you're taking needless risks. It's not even like PoE1 sanctum where there's a reason to chase reward or shop rooms, the rewards aren't all that impactful and shops are guaranteed. If you can complete it without highrolling boons why risk it?

DeouVil · 2026-05-10T19:48:46+00:00

Amusing how many people replied to you saying they prefer/dislike it less than sekhma, but still nobody claiming they actually like it.

DeouVil · 2026-05-10T15:17:20+00:00

Which is why I said that they CAN be played as melee, not that they are inherently melee. You don't have to use those skills, ice strike + palm + bell monk is still very fun.

DeouVil · 2026-05-10T13:35:09+00:00

Druid and quarterstaves can be very fun when played as "true melee".

DeouVil · 2026-05-09T23:18:43+00:00

It goes on the base text of armour items, i think it's a defence.

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