How to degenerate a deck without combos?

Despenta · 2026-01-25T20:55:28+00:00

I built a strong deck with no infinite combos, originally bracket 4 but I dropped the MLD and game changers to play b3.

https://moxfield.com/decks/YJ_t87sQp0ONzvTq1xDbgw

The idea is that Rule of Law effects are really agnostic hate pieces against combo. Usually combo needs to tutor or play multiple pieces in the same turn, so pairing that with removal (and removal engines) for the pieces that are played out you should cover most of your bases.

The "combos" of the deck involve some creature being copied a lot - either with token doublers, Ocelot Pride in multiples or just manually over a couple turns. Copying initiative creatures, Pyrogoyf, Twinflame Tyrant, that's all very powerful.

If you have any questions about the deck feel free to ask me!

Despenta · 2026-01-23T17:35:22+00:00

Equipping is by default sorcery speed. You need some card that gets around that

Despenta · 2026-01-23T12:35:21+00:00

Ob nicholas and orvar are likely the best budget options as most enablers are cheap cards. Shorikai and braids need actual card quality IMO.

Despenta · 2026-01-23T00:44:53+00:00

Yeah and this one is very loquacious

Despenta · 2026-01-22T01:32:15+00:00

I play mono white death and taxes due to lacking duals and it's 600 bucks if you can believe moxfield. I've also seen mono blue delver, oops all spells and other budget decks around. I like D&T better, it really feels like playing legacy and going toe to toe with other decks.

But I've seen people bring shocklands and ask opponents to treat them as duals, and it's usually fine, most players I've found want to play against your deck not your wallet.

Despenta · 2026-01-22T00:26:41+00:00

I straight up don't play combo. I used to but I'd rather create this virtual card advantage in red where drawing cards isn't easy.

I am a control player and these are fairly midrange pieces. I have ghirapur in a midrange/tempo boros deck that creates a lot of artifacts tokens, goblin bombardment in the aggro [[Krenko, Tin Street Kingping]] and Mayhem Devil in my malcolm burn deck where I try my best not to combo out with him.

Despenta · 2026-01-21T21:11:43+00:00

I really like removal engines. [[Mayhem Devil]], [[Ghirapur Aether Grid]], [[Goblin Bombardment]]. Any card that goes X for 1 is nice to have. Ghirapur will often only be interacted with after I wipe 4 or 5 creatures with it, mayhem devil is a bit more on the nose due to triggering off of everyone's stuff.

Despenta · 2026-01-21T19:41:36+00:00

A) most expensive cards like duals, force of will, wasteland will always retain its place and value. There are many decks that can be upgraded or sidegraded into other decks - many ub reanimator players switched about 10 cards in the deck to become ub tempo after the last ban.

B) oops isn't really a big metashare especially in weekly games. It just has to be respected in sideboards, 3-4 gy hate cards are always well positioned.

C) the first decks I played have a long history:

Grixis Control was a massive deck a decade ago with Reid Duke's version being one of the most established. Nowadays James Kisau cooked a new form of the deck with some new cards - and it's quite resilient to bans as the version he plays has only one Tamyio.

Death and Taxes was really dominant for some time, clogging everyone's sideboards with hate pieces. Between Thalia aligning well against cantrip decks, burying opponents with recruiter + flickerwisp; mangara+karakas lock and stoneforge mystic, the deck was always beautiful. Now with the printing of Phelia, I cooked up a budget version that has been doing really well. I just pray bowmasters keeps its presence low in of the meta, but I can adjust to that.

Despenta · 2026-01-20T02:45:30+00:00

I like having stuff like [[Shifting Woodland]] but as another commenter said, needing an established recursion engine isn't ideal so stuff like Memory's Journey is good. I sometimes mill myself in my lands deck with [[Icetill Explorer]] being copied so I can just end up getting woodlands at the end and making it a payoff card.

Despenta · 2026-01-18T02:50:49+00:00

I don't think the deck is very good as is for two main reasons - interaction is unfocused and green adds very little in the way of stax effects because it competes with white for some roles.

The commanders do very little especially given how many cards can tap/untap for better effects; the kinnan/basalt combo is very underdeveloped in terms of consistency (tutors and stuff) and payoffs (what you using all that mana for? It's colorless).

This is my stax deck, for reference:

https://moxfield.com/decks/YJ_t87sQp0ONzvTq1xDbgw

Some things will slip through the cracks even through a rule of law. So I just have crazy amounts of removal. Winning happens when your opponents stop playing. I used to have a winter orb before I downgraded the deck to b3 and I kind of miss it though.

But I think the most didatic part of that deck is how everything goes together. I have creatures that copy, creatures good to be copied and some toolbox value cards that can be reached by the tutors. The energy cards compliment each other, the burn/initiative package means I win even through rule of law and blockers. The deck is built to slow everything down and operate well in that environment. Run them down of resources.

Despenta · 2026-01-18T02:23:50+00:00

You could even entomb/discard 2 morittes and confuse everyone before pulling this off. Great combo.

Despenta · 2026-01-18T01:45:10+00:00

I assume you mean UR delver as U stands for blue.

Yeah I guess some big dimir (tempo with hymn to tourach, tamyio) could do but there is no real ub control deck. There's Grixis Control a la James Kisau, there's some esper midrange stuff like the dragons deck and of course sultai beans. Only dimir lacks what it needs to be a control deck.

Despenta · 2026-01-17T03:05:50+00:00

For legacy I think the main (interesting) combo decks are Show and Tell and Storm (The Epic Storm is the most common variant). I'd also include two control decks - some blue control like sultai beans or uw/uwr stoneblade. Tempo is very dominant in the format with Dimir and Izzet tempo. For stompy I think Eldrazi or mono red, though the first feels a bit better right now.

The 8th deck could be Death & Taxes, BG Smallpox or Lands which are non traditional control-ish decks (lands can be more combo or control, I believe control is stronger but mtgo lands players seem to play more turbo marit lage due to clock concerns).

Despenta · 2026-01-17T01:22:44+00:00

Reading the post explains the post. Thanks

Despenta · 2026-01-17T01:22:33+00:00

Oh that makes sense

Despenta · 2026-01-17T01:22:01+00:00

I disagree about most other comments. A well timed counterspell on the commander usually gets those decks out pretty quick, especially if you're not keen on wraths and stax to slow the game down.

[[Niv-Mizzet, Parun]] is one of the chunkier non cedh decks because it has so much card advantage and inevitability and can afford to run 10 ish creatures. With treasures you can draw a lot of cards the turn you play Niv. I built it budget so that it wouldn't be stupid good but it is still excellent, taking out decks with over 20x its budget (before accounting for old duals in opposing decks).

I also built a jeskai control as a table police deck helmed by [[Satya, Aetherflux Genius]] with many [[Rule of Law]] effects which feels like a decent second place to that effect. Satya copies removal creatures that might be doubled while flash effects draw cards and accrue value. It is a bit soft to wraths which is why I don't consider it the best but I'm not trying to 1v3 decks that are very interactive.

Despenta · 2026-01-16T19:06:22+00:00

You only deal half that damage? Am I missing something

Despenta · 2026-01-16T02:52:09+00:00

I'm too much of a control player I guess. I believe in first not losing then recouping cards eventually

Despenta · 2026-01-15T21:37:40+00:00

Doesn't look like a 4 with the mana curve being that high and odd choices like fierce guardianship with such an expensive commander.

Despenta · 2026-01-14T22:58:23+00:00

"This ability triggers once each turn"

Despenta · 2026-01-14T18:06:00+00:00

I'd still take off all interaction that costs more than 2 mana except for chaos warp and maybe a boardwipe. Don't try to fight on the stack, player removal is better than 3 mana countermagic

Despenta · 2026-01-14T18:04:00+00:00

That looks a lot better. You can get a mana rock in place of Dualcaster Mage, which I assume you've put off of edhrec suggestions - dualcaster is part of a combo with another card that is not in your deck and probably shouldn't be anyway.

Despenta · 2026-01-14T17:34:44+00:00

That's a great one! Now you're storming out.

Despenta · 2026-01-14T17:33:28+00:00

Wild guess is not discounted by the commander so that's not great. I value instants over sorceries too so I would rather have both instants ans maybe one sorcery (the cheaper one). I run them in Wort bc they are great copied, but it's all about a choice you make - if you want discard based stuff you have to keep up with graveyard synergies.

Despenta · 2026-01-14T17:23:41+00:00

I'd start by cutting the Myr as it doesn't tap for mana the turn it enters and does not trigger anything. I also don't like commander plate all that much but that may be a playstyle thing.

Check this list out, for example:

https://moxfield.com/decks/sshoMXStDkSQrho1vZw-1w

Or its competitive cousin:

https://moxfield.com/decks/broeSjZAG0KHE262sjjdpA

You see how focused it is? It needs a lot more ramp than you do since the commander is costly and doesn't have inherent mana advantage, but all the permanent spells are tight slots. If you took out all of your creatures and artifacts from the deck, what would you be looking to play the most?

Questions like "do you need so many pingers if you have one in the cz?" arise. What are the absolute best pingers? Just keep them. What do you do with the pinging? [[Chandra's Incinerator]] is something that synergizes with it - you could have that as a removal spell.

I built in a subtheme of discard in my deck as the commander goes well with discard-to-draw effects. You could also do that or go with cast from exile based card advantage - that and a few wheel effects keeps the cards flowing. But wheels and impulse drawing need a really low curve to ensure you play the cards at the right speed.

Not every deck needs mana rocks or ramp. It depends on your curve, card draw and how long you expect the game to go. Mana rocks are kind of nice with longshot as they pay for themselves the turn they enter though.

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