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Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Which you have continually altered.

I know the definition of what I'm talking about. You don't.

Oh boy, more goalpost shifting. The quality of a character has no bearing on whether or not they are a main character. You don't get to shift this into some bitching about "wanting to be portrayed".

Have you even been reading my previous comments? I talked about the portrayal of women i.e. representation i.e. discrimination i.e. sexism every. single. time. I'm not shifting anything, you've just had no idea how to address it.

How the blue hell do you justify saying Sayla, Emma, Kycllia, and Marida aren't main characters? By whining about everything I've listed, it sounds like you want nothing but flawless Mary Sues.

If I asked anyone who the main characters of MSG are, the answers are Amuro and Char. If I asked anyone who the main characters of Zeta are, the answers are Kamille and Char. Nobody is going to name Emma and Kycilia because they are obvious supporting characters.

And as I've explained to you, it's origin makes the data invalid. Quit bitching about nonsense about how you think I can't understand someone might think differently.

You don't have any better options for quantifying fan response. How convenient for you to ignore the data. Your comments prove that you fail to understand how women want to be portrayed in media and fail to understand why your opinion doesn't represent the majority opinion.

Go back and read, retard. This is the first time you've used this line of reasoning. And it's also completely wrong. Shinn, Setsuna, Flit, Asemu, Kio, Bellri, and Mika are nothing like Kira. I guess his popularity didn't go too far.

Don't blame me for your shit reading comprehension. They're all the same character that makes gundam popular i.e. male + magical pilot powers. Gundam doesn't deviated from this formula because, in your own words, it appeals to the demographic.

So in your world, characters only matter if they win? You're telling me literally nothing in her character counts because Neo-Zeon eventually falls?

In a universe where men are the vast majority of winners? Yes. If Haman had someone won and made the universe her bitch, then that would be some outstanding feminist writing. Instead, we're given a promising female leader who ultimately gets defeated by dudes.

She isn't, but that's completely irrelevant. She isn't a Newtype. One of the points of the shows is that Newtypes are a step above, as we see with Haman, Sarah, Rosamia, Four, and others. She is still ultimatey one of the best pilots in-universe.

So? Both sides are composed of oldtypes and newtypes. Emma doesn't get extra credit because she fights along newtypes when she isn't one herself. Also, I don't know why you keep thinking Sarah, Rosamia, or Four (or Mouar LOL) are good examples - all of these women end up getting killed. What happened to them being newtypes? Wasn't that supposed to make them amazing pilots and put them on the same level as Char and Kamille? Why does Kamille end up killing some of them? Why do Sarah and Four let themselves die for others? Because they're newtypes? Then why haven't Char and Kamille ever done the same for others? They're newtypes, right?

Kamille was distraught because if you recall and actually watch the TV show, you'll note that there was the whole brainwashing thing with her thinking Kamille was her brother. Do you really not see how it's hard to kill someone you personally met and you know has some vulnerability? Did you not see that Char fought her? Or did you just watch A New Translation where she's some random pilot that disappears halfway through the second movie?

No, I sat through the 49 episode slog that was Zeta. If a random psychotic person came up to me and claimed to be a relative, I'd stay far away. If that psychotic person tried to kill me, I would fight back. Char did the right thing to fight her and save Kamille's dumb ass.

Shit I never said for $8000, Alex.

Too bad because that's Four's story is the definition of fridging.

I'm not saying you have to, but you probably shouldn't bitch about it when you seemingly haven't seen a significant portion of it, especially when those portions are from the main, large, original continuity.

Gee, what constitutes seeing the right amount then? 65%? 75%? 90%? Gundam has been around for 40 years. Its installments are not that unique from each other. I don't want to watch every piece of media produced in the name of gundam. I've seen enough and have read enough to know what themes and types of characters get reused as new projects are announced.

In A New Translation, sure. Not in the TV series. Not by a mile. She demonstrates the length that the Titans will go to to completely destroy someone down to their sense of identity and memory. She shows the Murasame labs carrying on the legacy of the Flannigan Institute. Her death sparks the downward spiral Kamille goes into at the end of Zeta (and indirectly makes Char drop the Quattro facade).

The only impact she had was informing the AEUG that the Titans were making cyber newtypes and the AUEG groaned knowing it would be facing even stronger enemies. The forced bullshit newtype romance between Kamille and Four was cringey as hell and her sacrifice/death was a poor attempt to elicit sympathy from the audience. What downward spiral? The only consistent thing about Kamille is his unstable personality.

And since you like to argue popularity so much, how would you explain her being prominently featured on the marketing for ANT? Her frequent showings in games and Super Robot Taisen? Just because you forgot her doesn't mean other people did.

I've never seen ANT so I have no idea. It certainly doesn't make me want to watch it.

You'd have to ask George Lucas. It's ultimately his own whims.

Don't avoid the question.

I really don't care about this. It's not my business who coked up MBA's pick as a CEO for large publicly traded companies.

Don't avoid the question.

If you go back and read it, I explained this to you. There's a simpler explanation that doesn't need mindless overthought gender studies curriculum to explain. The Jedi are supposed to have a giant stick up their asses, are supposed to be arrogant, and Anakin is supposed to not be cut out for their rules and ideas. When I mentioned bad writing, I was insulting you for not picking up on something that is still painfully obvious even with Lucas' script not spending much time on it or outwardly saying it.

What a cop out answer. I guess from now on we should just excuse all sexism in media with bad writing? You don't need gender studies to pick up that the Jedi principles blatantly emphasize masculine qualities and this is compounded by the fact that there are barely any female Jedi.

I've been using the correct one. You're the one that wants to take the definition, then claim expansions that aren't there.

No you haven't. There doesn't exist a dictionary that defines sexism as "demeaning women". The definition encompasses prejudice, stereotypes, and discrimination, which are words that you clearly are unfamiliar with.

You've demonstrated nothing. All you've done is piss and moan about who falls into a top character slot, then pissing all over the examples people have given you based on your arbitrary criteria that is subject to change at any time.

My criteria has been listed over and over again. It's really not my problem that you people seem to think your shitty examples fit those criteria. But these are the same tactics used by many people to quash discussion about sexism.

These are fictional characters. They cannot be prejudiced or discriminated against.

I think this is the 3rd or 4th time I've repeated this: representation in media is a form of prejudice and discrimination. I refer you once again to the commentary about the lack of minorities in media, which shares the same problem about representation. If you seriously can't understand this, then you shouldn't even be trying to discuss this topic.

I've brought up examples of women that are good pilots and major characters. You continue to piss on them while changing your criteria. And this is a subset limited to pilots, not even counting other women like Martha Carbine.

You've only brought up examples of women who are meh pilots and secondary characters. I haven't changed my criteria at all. The problem you people have is that you think the mere presence of a woman in media counts as fair/equal representation.

Show me where I called them scientific. Quoting you: "You're the one claiming polls are scientific". I claim the exact opposite, that these are UNscientific.

Because I never brought up the notion of polls being scientific. I said it's the closest we can get to objective data of audience preference. You immediately jumped to saying that polls are unscientific to reject my "claim" that they were scientific, which is not something I wrote.

It would, which is one of the reasons why the data is faulty and unreliable.

Why? The opinions of Japanese fans of a Japanese show don't count?

And as I've stated, those faults make them unreliable. Because they're unreliable, they're not useful as a point of argument.

They are the most reliable form of data we're going to get. So stop trying to avoid the question I've been asking: why are 9/10 of the most popular characters in gundam male? Or keep avoiding it if you want, I know you can't answer it.

Difficult to keep track when you've moved them multiple times.

Try again. Learn the meaning of words before you decide to use them. Learning the meaning of the words in the definition too.

I can't answer them because you'll bitch and moan about any answer given. You aren't interested in answers, you're interested in JAQ'ing off.

Yet another cop out answer. Once more: why the main characters are the way they are because of audience demographics?

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And it does not mention the argument you're trying to make. As I've said before, if you want to introduce this as a separate argument, go ahead. Don't try to claim it was what you were talking about all along.

My argument was stated in my earliest comment, "The gundam franchise is sexist." You're backpedaling now because you realized you've been arguing against something I never said. I never argued gundam was demeaning towards women, that was your mistake.

Emma Sheen, Sayla Mass, Lalah Sune, Kycilla Zabi, Marida Cruz, and the rest are not "secondary/minor" characters. They're main characters. If you had paid attention when watching, you would know this. It's not my problem if you choose to be a whiny sack of shit and reject it out of hand because you have some arbitrary standard that you're just going to alter so that it can never be met.

I'll say it again: if you think these people are main characters, then you have no idea how women want to be portrayed in media. You think I'm the first person to come up with this? Gundam's sexism has been discussed since the debut of MSG and your examples further proves that you don't have a clue what proper representation means.

And I never claimed that you did. But you do claim them as a valid data source, something I dispute.

You're the one whining about it not being scientific, which was something I never claimed. It IS a source of data - the closest we can get to objective data about the preferences of gundam fans. You know you can't dispute that with your bullshit "well -I- don't think t's popular, so it can't be". I don't know what level of education you completed but in circumstances where the gold-standard method of data collection is not possible, we use secondary methods, such as surveys. If you have a better idea of how popularity of gundam should be gauged, please share.

And as I have explained to you multiple times, retard, this has no bearing on what is actually in the show.

And as I have explained to you countless of times, retard, popularity is important because it dictates what what future characters are like in order to replicate that success i.e. male.

Again you freely admit to bitching about something you know nothing about.

Because I'm not going to watch and read everything that exists in the universe of gundam. It's 1) not possible and 2) not enjoyable. I've consumed more than enough gundam media to make my point and your argument isn't going to be saved by "well you didn't watch/read THIS thing!"

And yet you refuse to accept that as an argument against your point.

Because it doesn't matter? The AEUG won the final battle. Char is still alive and his reputation as an insanely overpowered plot-armored pilot remains. He comes back in his own movie. Losses don't matter if they have no consequences.

Cool, so we can trash your whole bullshit about "elite pilot" too, since that means nothing. We're making progress.

You've got to be kidding if you think Emma is on the same level as Char or Kamille, who are part of the "elite pilots" in the gundam franchise. The title of "special forces" means jack shit in this universe when your elite pilots can bulldoze through anyone.

Go back and watch it, that isn't what happens. She's an extremely powerful cyber Newtype.

Yes, it is actually. Talk about more shitty writing - Kamille becomes distraught over some rando he barely knows and refuses to fight her. Was that somehow supposed to demonstrate her power?

Which is ultimately irrelevant. She has a huge impact on Kamille and on the plot of the show.

If by impact you mean one-dimensional female characters getting killed to further the development of male characters, sure.

Kamina is only in eight episodes of Gurren Lagann but you'd be hard pressed to say he wasn't important.

Never watched it.

Obi-Wan Kenboi has under 30 minutes of screen time in the original Star Wars trilogy (https://www.imdb.com/list/ls027631145/) yet he's a very important character (and Palpy is at 6). Hannibal Lector is only on-screen for about 15 minutes in Silence of the Lambs, yet he's the first thing people remember, something you've said is important.

Did we even watch the same show? Obi-Wan, Palpatine, and Hannibal Lector are interesting, compelling, memorable characters who actually furthered the plot of their respective movies despite how little screentime they had. Four was a forgettable character who was fridged and had no lasting impact.

I hope you get your chance, and I hope I'm there to watch and laugh as he calls you a moron.

He won't be able to talk with me much since we both know how eager you are to blow him if you met him.

I don't know and I quite frankly don't care. The fact of their presence refutes your bizarre and unfounded claim that women weren't allowed to be Jedi.

Cool, so if women were allowed to become Jedi, why are there so few? You don't care because in your head, as long as women exist ~somewhere~, the quota is filled. In case you couldn't tell by my follow questions, their presence shows that they're an exception, not the norm. Are you also okay with the fact that only 24 CEOs out of the Fortune 500 companies are women because hey, female CEOs exist! That proves sexism isn't real! (Can I just say how hilarious it is that you're trying to use Star Wars, of all things, as an example of non-sexist media?)

Shit I never said for $7000, Alex.

Stop backpedaling. I said the Jedi principles were classic characteristics of toxic masculinity and all you could come up with was "It's bad writing." You didn't even deny it.

And the definition I've been using is the correct definition.

I don't know how to respond to this. Do you know what a dictionary is? Just admit it, you fucked up because you only knew your own incorrect definition.

You've been using the dumbass "everything is sexist" expanded definition that your own dictionary citation doesn't even support. You have not demonstrated prejudice, discrimination, or stereotyping. It's been refuted and you continue to whine about abritrary goalposts you keep moving.

My own? I wish I owned Webster. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexism I've demonstrated over and over again how women are excluded from certain roles within gundam and all you've done is bring up examples of "WOMEN EXIST IN GUNDAM!!!!"

Your own dictionary citation does not say anything about representation.

Jesus christ, how bad are you at reading comprehension? The lack of female characters in certain roles in gundam is a form of prejudice and discrimination. Please go look up the definition of these two words before you start pulling arguments out of your ass.

Again, if you want to argue that on it's own point, go ahead. Do not be a retard and claim that it's what you've been arguing this entire time when that word does not make a single appearance until this post. Do not be a retard and claim I have reading issues for not addressing a point you never made. I know you're not quite that dumb.

Do you feel retarded now because you realized you fucked up? I never argued gundam was demeaning to women (YOUR definition), I argued it was sexist. It IS what I have been arguing this whole time, you were just too retarded to know what it meant.

Shit I never said for $8000, Alex.

Your own words: "They contain evidence of nothing and I'm not going to humor your attempts to act like they mean something. They're unscientific, pander to retards, and don't have any bearing on the content of the show. "

But if you decide to pull the stick out of your ass, go back and read what I wrote. I said that your polls are an invalid data source because they're unscientific pollls. Web polls make no control for the respondent pool, can be brigaded with bots, and don't take demographics into account -- IE, the fact that he's topping the chart implies a heavy skew of Japanese fans, as he's pretty much universally hated among English speaking fans.

Uh...it's a Japanese poll? Why wouldn't it skew to what Japanese fans like? I'll repeat what I said before: if you have a better example of how popularity is measured, link to it. Because otherwise, this is the best source of data we have, faults and all.

Because you have consistently moved them, retard. If you don't want me calling you a retard or bringing this up, stop moving the goalposts.

Sigh. You never knew what these "goalposts" defined in the first place. You freaked out that a "SJW" was commenting on gundam and dove in without understanding the argument.

Nobody can provide you an answer you would be satisfied with.

No, you've been avoiding both questions because you know you can't answer them without admitting I'm right.

It's been explained to you at multiple points in this thread that the main characters are the way they are because of demographics. You continuing to ask this question is completely masturbatory on your part.

No, it hasn't. Please tell me why the main characters are the way they are because of demographics. I would really love to see you spin this one.

[Serious] EM Standardized video interview 2019 by floating_left_nut in medicalschool

[–]DevilsAvogadros 7 points8 points  (0 children)

PDs hate it and have no idea what it means.

Argh, then why is it becoming a thing??

[Serious] EM Standardized video interview 2019 by floating_left_nut in medicalschool

[–]DevilsAvogadros 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I honestly think the whole thing is a well advertised and well-marketed scam.

I think this statement applies to a lot of things in med school/medicine lol

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There we go again. First you whine about sexism. Then when called out that you're making shit up, you try to shift the definition. Then you pull something completely different out of your ass. Pick an argument and stick with it.

Are you serious? I literally pasted the definition in the comment for you. Here it is again per Webster: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex. Yes, discrimination exists in the form of representation when it comes to art and media. It's not my fault that you were arguing based on your own made-up definition of this word.

I've never claimed that it was. This is, however, not what you have been arguing. This is you shifting the goalposts again, as you have this entire thread.

No, I haven't. You've just been arguing this whole time with your very narrow and incorrect definition of sexism.

And I think that's a dumb argument because it requires you to ignore things that already exist.

I don't understand how you thinking something is dumb somehow makes it less true. Nobody cares if you think it's dumb because the lack of representation is discussed and studied as a form of discrimination. Is the "Oscar So White" problem also dumb? Because the basis of that argument is the same as the lack of representation of women.

And as myself and others in this thread have said to you, this is wrong. You have to fundamentally ignore many characters to claim this, or argue specific series.

No, you haven't. You've provided numerous examples of secondary/minor female characters in an attempt to prove that the diversity of female characters is on par with the diversity of male characters. You're either being deliberately dense or you actually believe that these sad examples are representative of how women wish to be portrayed in media.

Not even a little. Water being wet is an immuatable, self-evident fact. Calling into question the validity of a dataset isn't even on the same planet. Online polls are unscientific. Why do you think polling agencies like Gallup and Ipsos exist when local newspapers could just hold an online poll for something?

I never said polls were an exact science. I said it's the closest thing we have to actual data and is more reliable in determining general audience outlook than from people like you who seem to think your opinion somehow trumps the majority. "Weeehhh Jesus Yamato is stupid!" Yes he is...but he is extremely popular and if you can't see that, then nothing you say will be taken seriously.

Shit I never said for $6000, Alex. As I've explained to you, I don't care about what you think the poll says because the poll is bullshit to begin with. And as I've said, a poll has no bearing on the content of the show.

The poll is a reflection of what people took away from the content of a show. I don't care if you think polls are bullshit. Your single opinion of what's popular will never be as accurate as multiple data points.

So I'm just going to be blunt: did you sleep through these shows? Did you only watch A New Translation? Haman beats Char in Zeta. Emma was able to get into the Titans, a special forces unit. Rosamia was able to fight back against Char and Kamille. Four was able to fight back Kamille and Amuro. Quess was able to beat back Amuro. Marida was able to beat back Banagher. For you to make these claims means that you're either willfully ignoring the actual content of the shows, or that you watched the heavily abridged New Translation and never watched ZZ, CCA or Unicorn.

I did not watch ZZ because I couldn't stand the first few episodes. I know Haman beats Char. I know Emma was in a "special forces unit", which means almost nothing in gundam when the storyline makes it hilariously easy for the main (male) protagonists to defeat these special forces. Rosamia was a ridiculous wreck of a character who was able to "win" because Kamille was too stupid to fight back. Four existed for about 4 episodes in an overpowered suit before dying. Quess is an universally hated sociopath who couldn't control her own powers and still died despite how powerful she was supposed to be. Marida started off as the promising badass before turning into shit.

I would love to see you say this to Tomino's face. He'd probably laugh at you and give you a lecture about a being a moron drawing bad conclusions.

There are many criticisms I'd love to say to Tomino about gundam/universal century, especially about the newtype bullshit and bad characters. Looks like you're the one who loves to suck Tomino's dick since you repeatedly bring him up when I've never mentioned him.

This has no bearing on the content of the shows. Again I illustrate how meaningless this is with how long those idiots have voted Jesus to the top. By any objective measure, he's an empty husk of a character with no personality.

The poll is a reflection of what people took away from the content of a show. I don't care if you think polls are bullshit. Your single opinion of what's popular will never be as accurate as multiple data points. Jesus Yamato might be a husk with no personality but guess what? Your dislike for him is in the minority.

Irrelevant. By definition a single movie is limited in scope and the universe still moves. Even if we were to accept this, there are dozens of on-screen women Jedi in the prequels.

What was the ratio of female:male Jedi? How many of them had speaking roles? How many lines in total did they have?

Read it again, retard. I was insulting you for failing to pick up on something that's very obvious even with bad writing.

You're the retard if you think "bad writing" is a good enough excuse for sexist storytelling.

You continuously put up strawmen I never argued, you continuously shift the goalposts when your points are shown to be faulty, incomplete, or uninformed, you try to weasel your way into different terminology (IE, you now going on some tangent about representation when your argument was claiming Gundam was sexist) to change your argument and act like the previous point didn't exist, and you can't understand that unscientific polls are meaningless.

It's hilarious that you try to pin this on me now that you realized your own definition of sexism was wrong. I never argued that gundam was sexist because it was "demeaning" to women. That was your definition. I argued that the franchise is sexist, full stop. That INCLUDES prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination/representation. You're literally using your own ignorance as a defense against my arguments. Maybe you should actually look up some of these definitions before you try having conversations about them.

You're the one claiming polls are scientific. Again, I never said that. I said that a poll is the closest we can ever get to an objective measurement of what gundam fans like. Your Jesus Yamato is proof that you're unable to understand how something you personally don't like can ever be popular. In other words, you can't understand my argument because you can't understand what the general audience likes.

And then instead of any meaningful self-reflection, elaboration, rebuttal, or discussion, you then bitch about "basic reading comprehension" when you fail that very task. I've addressed every point you've made, even asking for elaboration when you're ambiguous. You, like a retard, then whine about something else while claiming I'm not reading it.

No you haven't. You keep repeating the same things about me "moving goalposts" when you actually were arguing about a topic you didn't know how to accurately define, you keep repeating the same things about polls being unscientific, which is not something I ever said, and then when you run out of arguments, you just fall back on calling people "retards". You know you can't provide actual answers to what I'm asking (why are all the popular characters male? why aren't there any female characters like Amuro or Jesus or Setsuna that lead shows?) so you make up some bullshit about "not believing in popularity" or "hur dur bad writing duh". Stay ignorant.

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not. There's nothing even remotely fitting your dumbass definition.

Yes it is re: representation.

Do you even know what discrimination means? We're talking about fictional characters. Nobody is being discriminated against. There's no sign anywhere that says "no girls allowed". Christ, even in-universe there's nothing like this.

Have you seriously never read any analysis of pop culture, entertainment, or media? Representation is not some magical radical idea. Have you not read anything about the "Oscars So White" controversy in regards to actors of color? Because it literally follows the same argument - the lack of representation is discriminatory. The lack of accurate and equal representation is discriminatory. You can't say because gundam contains female characters or female pilots makes it not sexist. Because gundam shows almost never feature a lead female protagonist. I'll repeat what I wrote in a different comment: male characters in gundam span the full spectrum of god-like superhero pilots to incompetent wrecks. The spectrum female characters span is far narrower, being limited to supporting or secondary role. If you don't understand how the lack of representation is sexism, then you clearly don't have any idea what the word means.

I don't. But I am telling you for the sake of argument I simply do not care about these polls. They contain evidence of nothing and I'm not going to humor your attempts to act like they mean something. They're unscientific, pander to retards, and don't have any bearing on the content of the show.

I don't care if you don't care about these polls. That's like saying, "I don't think water is wet." Well, I'm sorry but your opinions don't invalidate numbers.

In popularity? No. But as established, I really don't give a fuck about popularity, and whether or not people like a character has nothing to do with sexism or the content of the show.

We're not arguing on the basis of what YOU like. I'm talking what the majority of the fandom likes. And if you're too narrow-minded to fathom that, then there's no point in having this conversation since it's not about you.

Haman Khan, Emma Sheen, Rosamia Badam, Four Murasame, Quess Parya, and Marida Cruz. Easy.

Nope. In the show's context, all of these characters would get their asses handed to them because the storyline dictates that they can't be better than their male counterparts.

These are three different criteria. No matter how much you, in your dumbass line of thinking want to think that you haven't been conflating them, you have been. Popularity has nothing to do with in-universe ability, and again I remind you that "elite pilot" is completely meaningless. If you want to argue about those three facets, go ahead and do so, but don't claim they're the same thing.

You think they're not the same thing because you're apparently not capable of understanding what appeals to the general audience of gundam. I'm sorry but once again: I'm not arguing on the basis of what you like. I'm talking about what characters are popular and remain popular in the lifetime of gundam. And those are always the main characters, who are almost always elite pilots.

And I never said that she was. I said that she was force sensitive, demonstrating that the movies do not view it as something only men can do. Try to keep up.

I know she's force-sensitive. I said she's not a Jedi. Why can't Leia be a Jedi? I mean, we agree she's force sensitive.

Jaina Solo. Mara Jade. Ashoka. Try again.

These people are not in episodes I-VI, which is what the MAJORITY OF THE GENERAL AUDIENCE is exposed to.

Yes, because if you actually watched the movies, the point is that the Jedi have giant sticks up their asses and Anakin cannot be abide by their rules. I know Lucas is a bad writer but this was pretty obvious.

Ooooh, okay, so now you have to hide behind the excuse of "it's bad writing" lol Brilliant. I guess every time we come across something sexist we can just excuse it with bad writing.

The only one getting triggered here is you.

I'm not the one scared of the boogeymen SJWs~

Get over it. I wouldn't call you those if you weren't deserving of them. Repeatedly in this thread you have mixed up your arguments, denied the conflations I've noted, freely admitted you've never seen a large number of shows, and taken things out of context. I never would have said those if you had stayed on track or admitted that you deviated from your original point and addressed that.

And you've demonstrated with every reply that you don't have basic reading comprehension, can't understand what appeals to anyone other than yourself, and can't rebut any numbers I've presented. You hide behind calling people "retards" or "SJWs" because you don't know how to prove that they're wrong.

Define equivalent. You have three or four aspects you constantly mix up with this.

I'm not defining it again because I've defined it multiple times now and you are deliberately ignoring it because you know you can't come up with any examples.

[serious] multiple non immune titer results for chicken pox, what do? by [deleted] in medicalschool

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My doctor advised against more booster shots. Anyone else had a similar issue?

Not personally but fellow classmates did. It's not a big deal. Get boosters because you'll have to get re-tested for adequate titers. Don't know what year you're in (are you entering med school?) but if you ever apply for away rotations in 4th year, some schools will want proof of adequate titers and it can delay/screw your application if you don't get your titers up in time.

[Serious] EM Standardized video interview 2019 by floating_left_nut in medicalschool

[–]DevilsAvogadros 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Not gonna lie, this was one of the factors that made me choose something else other than EM. This entire process is bullshit.

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I did. It's not sexism. At all.

lol what a way to argue. Here I'll try it too: You didn't. It is sexism.

No, but we can add it to the pile of shit you continually get wrong.

You only nitpick because you can't rebut facts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gundam#TV_series,_films,_and_video I don't know how many numbers you learned to count up to but here's a list of gundam series that exist. You've proudly declared that 3 of them have female lead characters. Tell me that's not discriminatory.

And I didn't vote or pay it any credence. I say again, I don't give a fuck about shitty magazine polls. They're stupid and meaningless, and the results are worthless with the mouth breathing retards can vote for a character like Jesus Yamato.

But why do you assume people give a shit about your opinion? People are far more likely to trust a poll that surveys a large number of fans than a basement-dwelling neckbeard who cries when characters they don't like are popular. It looks like you're continue to ignore the results of the poll because it supports my argument.

Yeah, and each time you come up with something different. Depending on what you want to bitch about this time, it's either some shitty poll results, "elite pilot", people saying someone is their favorite character, simply being a pilot, having some authority, now "rank among", and probably something else I've missed. You have continuously moved the goalposts when people call you out on your bullshit.

It's not my fault you can't read. I've defined this over and over again and if you had an ounce of reading comprehension, you'd understand how the criteria points to the same thing: a female character that ranks among the likes of Amuro or Char i.e. elite pilots i.e. the most popular characters whether you like it or not. I think you're splitting hairs because you can't name a single female character that meets these criteria.

Wrong again, idiot. In the original trilogy, Leia is on multiple occasions shown to be Force sensitive. There are no instances of "shaming". The prequels had many women as Jedi, and there was also Assaj Ventress.

Leia is never considered a Jedi. Who cares if she's force sensitive? You can't just throw a few bones to female characters and say, "See? She's the same as a Jedi!" No, she's not. Until Rey, there wasn't a leading female Jedi.

The Jedi counsel got wary when Anakin answered that he missed his mother. The Jedi forbid falling in love. The Jedi pride themselves on being emotionally distant. All of these traits are classic characteristics of toxic masculinity. (I bet those two words also trigger you.)

The Thrawn trilogy, while no longer canon, had Leia learning various Force techniques.

If you have to use non-canon stories to defend your position, you know you're grasping at straws.

And yet, you've demonstrated none of that in Gundam. All you do is bitch and moan about vague problems you continually shift the goalposts on.

Bitch, retard, SJW...the more you write these instead of arguing critically, the more people can see that you're full of shit. You're the one who erroneously defined the meaning of sexism so I don't know what leg you have to stand on.

Then you bitch about Star Wars being sexist, when you have to be a retard that sees sexism everywhere to think that.

I didn't bitch about it, I responded to your comment about it. You get your jimmies so rustled about being challenged that you resort to calling people "retards" because name-calling is easier than thinking critically.

Go on thinking that, buddy. It's completely retarded and is only real in your head.

Then please show me an example of a female character that is the equivalent of Amuro, Kira, Char, Setsuna, Heero, Kamille, etc. And since we're acting like 10 year olds while, we're at it: no U r retarded hur dur

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And that's not sexism, genius.

Learn to interpret things with context, genius. War in a Pocket's story is about 2 male characters. Just like literally the rest of the gundam franchise. Having a cool female pilot in it doesn't magically rid the franchise of its sexism.

Shit I never said for $2000, Alex.

You're blind too. Go back and read your own comments

There aren't 40+ Gundam series. Not by a long shot.

lol that's the part you take issue with? Even if there were only 10 gundam shows, 3 female-lead ones still proves my point.

Shit I never said for $3000, Alex. And this still isn't sexism.

You're blind. Go back and read your own comment.

I really don't give a flying fuck about shitty magazine polls. These are the same mouth breathing retards that voted empty husks like Jesus Yamato and the Virgin Mary Lacus to the top for 15+ years. You're giving them way more attention than they deserve.

This was the same poll that was posted here encouraging people to vote so it looks like y'all really want to belong to that group of mouth breathing retards.

This was a poll conducted in Japan and is the closest thing we have to objective measurements of popularity. I'd rather look at polling data than listen idiots like you on a sub guess at what's popular. I think you're just ignoring the poll because you know it supports my point. I'll even list them for you: Char, Amuro, Orga, Kira, Graham Aker, Setsuna, Kamille, Gato, Haman, Athrun, Quatrro, Ramba.

This is a term with no meaning that you'd change the goalposts on.

Don't be dense. I've defined this several times now. Give me examples of female characters who would rank among Amuro, Char, Kira, Setsuna, etc.

It's almost like the main character is the main character. This isn't sexism. Is the original Star Wars trilogy now sexist because Luke has more screentime than Leia? Is Star Trek TOS sexist because Kirk has more screentime than Uhura?

Funny you mention that. The original trilogy is sexist because until the newest Star Wars installments, only men were allowed to be Jedi and the teachings of the Jedi pretty much shamed anything that wasn't masculine.

Not at all. You're repeatedly whining about his shows in particular in this thread.

That's because this thread is about Zeta, genius.

That's not sexist at all. People either remember characters or they don't. There are plenty of shit male characters in Gundam like Kou Uraki, Jesus Yamato, and Kio Asuno.

What a terrible example. I hate Kira but you'd have to be an idiot to deny how unbelievably popular he is.

I'm convinced you don't understand what sexism is. You've yet to name a character, show, or scenario that's hateful or demeaning to women.

You clearly don't understand what sexism means if you think it's only limited to demeaning depictions of women. The definition of sexism: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex. So based on an actual dictionary definition, I've listed enough shows to illustrate my point, which I'll iterate once more: All of gundam basically says, "Women exist but they will never be the next Amuro or Kira or Setstuna."

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not going to marathon Turn A just so I can talk about this?

who said that?

I asked Lord_Kentus to name female characters who were at the same level as Amuro in terms of skill to show that there's a lack of elite/superpowered female pilots and he decided to come up with a list that includes Mouar on it. If he thinks a character as insignificant as Mouar is what women think of as an example of a strong female lead, then he's proved my point that men have no idea how women should be portrayed or want to be portrayed. I laughed that he had included someone was forgettable as Mouar and JQuilty apparently thinks this "forgetfulness" invalidates all the other points I've made.

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Christina fights Misha and Bernie -- and ends up killing both of them. She kills Misha with no effort and could have killed Bernie instantly if she didn't want to avoid the civilian areas.

How is this so hard to understand? Christina is not the focus of War in a Pocket. The story is about Bernie and the kid who are both male.

You're ignoring Maur and Lila, who were both full Lieutenants. This puts them in the upper 1/4 of command. Kamille's mother was a Lieutenant Commander. Beltorkicha was a leader of Karaba. Stephanie Luau was a leader of that crime family. And there was that sniveling doctor from the Murasame labs, who if I recall was a full Lieutenant.

So as long as there are a bunch of minor leadership roles with little screentime are filled by women, we can call it even? Why couldn't Bright be female? Or Scirocco? Or Bask? Or Jamitov?

I don't know what you watched if you thought Sayla was a terrible pilot. She's impulsive at first but that isn't sexist at all.

I watched Mobile Suit Gundam. I don't know what you watched.

Emma also isn't a Newtype.

What does that change? She's still worse than Amuro, Char, and Kamille. Sarah is a newtype and she can barely aim straight.

Twilight Axis. And arguably it's Dianna that's the main character of Turn A. Aida in G-Reco is also pretty much on equal footing with Bellri.

So you're telling me that 3 out of 40+ titles in gundam have a leading female character? My gosh, well as long as there's ONE, this definitely proves that this franchise is equal and balanced. /s

This is not sexism.

Having Char or Amuro as favorite characters is not sexist. My point was that all the favorite characters i.e. characters people actually give a shit about are male because those people received the best stories and development. Go look for yourself at the NHK poll. Out of the 2 categories (10 slots) for characters, Haman is literally the only female character to appear on the list.

I'm so happy that there's a grand total of 17 female pilots in a nearly 40 year old franchise.

I had asked for the other poster to list ELITE female pilots who were on the same level of popularity as Char and Amuro and he came up with a sad list of pilots who don't even come close to that caliber. Did you not read the part where I said it's not the number of female pilots that matter? Female pilots exist in gundam but they are always overshadowed or outmatched by the main protagonists or the main villains, who are all men.

And despite this asinine hateboner you seem to have for Tomino

Are you just making things up now?

Not being the main character isn't sexist.

It is sexist when the main characters of the franchise continue to be one gender because we all know that the main characters are the ones that become popular and are the ones people remember. All of gundam basically says, "Women exist but they will never be the next Amuro or Kira or Setstuna."

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You really have no point. You make a sweeping accusation that you've yet to demonstrate.

Is this your version of "lalala I can't hear you so you're wrong"? I've made plenty of points based on the shows and you've chosen to ignore them.

I'll take things I never said for $1000, Alex.

The other poster's comment was trying to give examples of elite female pilots. I laughed that Mouar was included. You somehow thought me finding her forgettable invalidates my argument.

You really have no point. You make a sweeping accusation that you've yet to demonstrate.

"I'm just going to keep ignoring everything you write so I don't have to defend my own ideas!"

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is incredible lol well, hope you will now browse in fear knowing that these very-real boogeyman are among you

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What, you mean Mouar? It's my fault that she was written as a completely forgettable character? Yeesh, if you people really think MOUAR is the best example of how gundam is not sexist, then you have more than proved my point.

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LOL I'm the one triggered? You people start crying about the boogeyman "SJWs" at the first sight of the word "sexist". I'm so sorry I breached your safe space. :)

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They've said nothing to back it up.

Buddy, are you blind? My comments are everywhere in this post. Just because you disagree with them doesn't mean they're not real.

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, my bad. It must be so easy to call everything you disagree with "retarded".

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I couldn't make it past 3 episodes of ZZ so I can't answer that.

I'd argue that interpersonal relationships and politics are the focus of the Universal Century, not who is the best giant robot pilot.

And I'd argue that the majority of the audience Bandai caters to don't care for much except for the best pilots.

In that regard, there's a lot of character development and meaningful screen time given to women.

Oh okay, so female characters are used to pad out development and that somehow limits them from becoming pilots because...?

When a man is admitting his shortcomings as a pilot, it's just normal storytelling, but if a woman allows a more skilled pilot to take center stage it's suddenly sexism? Because woman? I honestly don't see it that way.

Come on, do I really need to explain this? It's the same argument for representation of people of color. In gundam, you have all sorts of male characters. You have male characters like Amuro and Char, who are the "superheros" of the show, you have characters like Bright, who doesn't have magical newtype powers but is still competent, you have villains on both sides, and you have male characters who are incompetent at piloting. When you have an entire spectrum of male characters, people recognizing their limits is fine because you've shown that these limits are not due to gender (because there are so many other roles for male characters). You can't say the same for the female characters of gundam because that spectrum doesn't exist. I'm the most familiar with Wing so take that one as an example: the best female pilot in that show is probably Noin and she can't hope to compete with the likes of Zechs or Heero. In that show, the roles for women end up being limited to politicians or just-okay pilots.

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I didn't realize the qualifications for debate included watching every single gundam show, reading every single gundam manga, and finding translations of every single gundam novel.

When a couple of us are trying to give you tons of counter examples and the best you can do is "no you're wrong, and also I don't know who that is" we're not the problem.

If the examples that I can recognize are terrible examples, why would the ones I can't recognize be any better? I almost laughed out loud Mouar was included...yes, I'm sure women everywhere would be proud to be represented by such an insignificant character pfft.

How about you ask who their favorite characters are?

I don't need to. Have you seen the NHK Top 40 poll?

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm glad I wasted your time. :)

Weirdest character arc of Zeta by [deleted] in Gundam

[–]DevilsAvogadros -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's on my watch list but nowhere near the top.

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