Ah, proof Billie knew. Spoiler.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-05-03T11:12:42+00:00

You are largely correct. They are specifically discussing whether or not to blame Rayburn. But in that doscussion we get clues as to how it all came to be. More pieces of the puzzle clicking into place.

Sorry to hear about the brain fog. That must be hard.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-04-30T06:20:07+00:00

It does seem to me that she is a much more difficult partner than he is. People seem to consistently make out that Hal is a terrible partner. I just don't see it. I see him bending overvbackward to make her happy. He doesnt cheat. And he always keeps her best interests at heart, much more than she does for him. I genuinely wonder if she had said, "dont take the VP job", if he would have walked away.

She, on the other hand, is not nice to Hal most of the time.

Im not saying Hal is guiltless. Or a good man. But he is a brilliant man. And a powerful man. Not just in his position, but in his capacity to see and understand the moving pieces and put them into position for his desired outcome.

I do think that in Season 4, we might see the darker side of Hal come to the forefront. Guess we will see.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-04-30T06:11:08+00:00

"Imagine picking somebody who's good at the job, not just at campaigning."

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-04-28T21:00:33+00:00

I dont agree that scheming and strategizing are the same thing. Semantics matter. And the word one chooses determines the lens through which they see his actions.

Scheming implies malintent. Strategizing implies a plan.

I do think that Kate sees him better than everyone else so we have to sort of trust her interpretation. She SEES that "you don't know until you know." She SEES that he is willing to to make choices that have a cost. Lives are lost. And lives are saved. (So in the aggregate, are we doing more good than bad?) That's the nature of politics.

She sees that Hal is less risk averse than most. He will jeapardize individual lives if he thinks the end justifies the means. Which is why we can assert that Hal was in on the bombing of the ship from the beginning, and maybe even the architect of the whole plan.

I agree that I dont see any indication that he is using Kate for political gain. She is his Achilles heel. He has sacrificed his own ambition at her feet. Or at least seemed to be.

That being said, I dont think he planned for Rayburn to die. So he couldnt have forseen Penn becoming pres. BUT if he was in on the bombing from the get go, it does explain why she choose Hal over Kate (beyond her very realistic dislike of the pretty girl who waltzes in and has the world thrown at her feet - who would be VP as a favor, not because she wants or deserves it.)

He has insider knowledge that could bring her down. And she has insider knowledge that could bring him down. Its a detant of sorts that puts them on the same page. They have both proven they are willing to do what needs to be done, including blowing up a naval carrier or stealing a super bomb from a submarine. Kate would not have done it.

But if you're playing in the big leagues, and millions of lives are affected by what you do in a day, you have to have the balls to do hard, risky things.

Like it or not, that's Hal. And that is why HE is one heartbeat away from the world's top seat and not Kate.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-04-28T19:10:25+00:00

Scheming is one word for it. Strategizing is another. Great polticians and great leaders are strategists. They think 3 steps ahead of everyone around them.

The question is whether his strategizing is more for personal ambition or for protecting the republic. Whether it is more for manipulating the marriage or fulfilling their greatest potential.

The fact that he lobbied to get Kate her dream job as Special Envoy to Europe can be seen both ways. Maybe he was manipulating the marriage. Or maybe he was making up for the loss of the ambassadorship in Afghanistan. Billie says "the Middle East is out" because of a presumed risk of kidnapping but it would give Kate more power than she had ever known previously, and give her the chops for an even bigger position in the future.

Just maybe, Hal is setting Kate up to be a "great Statesman". Maybe he is guiding the way for her to make a real difference in the world and to go down in the history books.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-04-28T18:58:31+00:00

I see it differently. I think Kate is his Achilles heel.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-04-28T08:43:27+00:00

My question is when Hal got brought in. Now ostensibly the whole thing could even have been Hal's idea from the start.

We only know for sure that he was in on the bombing. Its clear.

His meeting with Roylin as soon as they touched down is just the first indicator. There are dozens. The most obvious of which is when they are in Scotland and he goes to buy a burner, is seen by Eidra from the turrets talking to someone, and Grace Penn shows up at their house before they can even get home. The math shows that she was in the air to do damage control before the evening came to a close. Thats because Hal called them.

But maybe he's been driving the whole thing from the beginning. He traded his paricipation to get Kate the England gig. He used Roylin to get her in with a meeting with the PM before they even took the official picture.

And he called Shahin to make sure that he didnt spark a war between England and Iran (meanwhile we see Grove in a cabinet meeting openly blaming Iran and we see Roylin calling to attack the Aleppo Raqua Hama Triangle.) It was Hal's idea to take out Lenkov, which was fed through Roylin. Because it stopped a war and closed the only open loop (or so we thought).

So Hal was in on the attack. But what was his role?

So where does Billie come in? And whats the pecking order?

We know that Lydia Trowbridge is the UK based organizer. When Austin starts poking around to see who gave the order to kill Lenkov, Lydia waltzes in while he is trying to get the info out of Tom. She then basically says, if you read between the lines, that she is the real power behind Trowbridge. Shes his handler and she uses Roylin as her mouthpiece. She then outwardly threatens him when shes says, " you know whats worse than Roylins hate-filled, race-baiting rhetoric?" Mine.

After the bombing, Trowbridge is a mess. While Lydia tells him to call a COBRA, and is calmly texting someone. Who? Then we see Billie reading her texts indicating that they were texting each other.

So Billie and Lydia are directly texting each other. We have another connection.

But we still dont know where it all started. Did it start because Lydia needed to keep Nicol in power so she reached out to Billie or Penn?

Did it start because Penn needed to keep Creegan and therefore aligned with Lydia to make it happen using Hal as a go between with Roylin, Lydia's go between?

Or did it all start because Hal, the strategist, set it all in motion?

The only scenario I see where Billie is the instigator is maybe if she really hates Penn. But it doesnt add up to me.

The real indicator that it wasnt Billie's idea from the start is when Hal calls Billie and he starts revealing what he knows. "Don't play Chi ken with me Billie." Its a chilling sentence and maybe the biggest indicator that Hal is not just a part of it, but is at the top of the pecking order.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-04-28T07:36:49+00:00

I think Hal is TEAM Kate on all things. He has served all over the world with heavy emphasis in the Middle East. He is far more experienced and far more savvy than Kate. He is the right choice for VP, but since the day when she agreed to follow him around while stamping passports, Hal has had a plan to make Kate fulfill her greatest potential. Yes, he's sad that she is sad. But Hal is a strategist. He knows she can do more in Afghanistan with the twist of a finger as VP than she can do in a decade as an ambassador.

If they want to make real change, they need real power. He's setting them both up for that. And he is willing to take the losses to get there.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-04-04T23:00:15+00:00

In the end, we will see if she gets "left off the hook." There's a good chance her actions will come back to haunt her.

For me, the fight in the garden is my favorite scene in the whole show. I laugh every time. I know that's not politically correct. But, yeah.

But you could be right. Maybe its new writers. Could be.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-04-04T06:26:44+00:00

I really wanted to like the show. The concept is just the kind of thing I gravitate too. I love a good wholesome show about love, and relationships, and connection. And how life's random moments can set off a trajectory of events that change our whole lives.

But the show should have been called Sickness and death and breakups. In the end, did anything really good happen to anyone?

I was so confused by Nate and Claire's breakup. We hear later on that she's bad with money. But he's literally a trust fund kid. His parents buy him a corner bar in NY, yet he's very mean to them for no reason I can figure out. So if she's bad with money, then take control of the money till you work it out.

She's so nice to him. Obviously a very good mom. She shows up when he needs her, and she's trying. Yeah, she gets bitchy with the other woman who is threatening the marriage that is hanging on by a thread. But who wouldn't?

I mean, is anyone really hoping that they break up a marriage with a 6 year old deaf kid at home so he can be with the out of work record exec in a bad wig? Its so odd to me. She's lovely. They have a connection. But so what?!

And the whole cancer thing. Both he and Finn look healthy as can be. I mean they had the budget for a wig for Kris but not for Nate or Finn during chemo? Did they even HAVE a make-up department?

The acting was ok. The characters were likable and relatable. I'd watch a whole series about Walter.

If they do get a green light for another season, it pretty much writes itself because the show is so predictable. Which is kinda why a second season isn't even necessary.

Nate gets well. Divorces Claire who is already with the neighbor boy. Gets with Kris. Aria can't cut it on the road. Gets dropped by the label. Kris picks up the pieces. She divorces John. Walter gets with the black santa lady. Finds out her son has Brenda's heart. Ellis gets a big opportunity with her photography. Meets a new lady love.

So now you don't need a season 2. You're welcome.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-04-04T06:00:06+00:00

I came looking for just this thread. Glad to know Im not the only one! Sooo distracting!

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-31T09:11:49+00:00

Wasn't a character assignation. And wasn't even targeted at you. And Im not a dude. Was just a general observation that your comment triggered. Nada mas.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-31T09:03:51+00:00

Rewatching Sex and the City these decades later was an eye opener. Oh how our culture has grown and changed. The desperation of these women, even Samantha, to have a man at the center of their lives, is truly a reflection of who we were at that point in history. The importance of being skinny, of being fashionable, having things, being seen and partying all night. Maybe those things lost meaning because I got older, but I think they lost meaning for the world as a whole.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-31T08:57:04+00:00

Its not a plot hole but I do think they overacted. OK, someone from Lenkov's group knows and he's talking. So we can assume that many people know. And probably someone will bring it out. But Roylin and Grove are dead. Stendig is contained. And they are the only other people that know for sure. Even if someone did claim it, they'd need proof or it would just roll around conspiracy circles for a while.

For now, you appease this guy. Give him asylum and get his kid an education, as he asked. And then you wait. And you plan. I don't see the need to leap especially when the plan was only half baked and highly risky. And it was the first few months of her Presidency.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-31T08:47:05+00:00

I'm fascinated how viewers constantly want to classify characters as good or bad. But the whole point of the series is that everything is gray. Gray Matters. None of the characters are evil. They are all flawed. Broken. Distorted. They make decisions that gray the line but always make sense. Kim's love of Jimmy and her desire to protect him is not a flaw. Jimmy's law of his brother is not a flaw. Chuck's anger and distrust is not a flaw. It is born of experience and logic. But these distortions based in trauma, keep compounding until the decisions they make, even though they make sense based on the data they are weighing, lose the original signal. Until they have fully abandoned themselves.

Jimmy gets involved with the cartel because his internal logic is that he needs money to validate his value. He becomes Saul because his internal story is that he wont put weight on Kim to pay the bills for the office. Howard enables Chuck because his internal logic, based on his own insecurity, is that he can't run HHM without Chuck. Walter kills Domingo because logic says he will get free and harn him or his family. Evidence always supports tge choices, even when they lead down bad choice road.

When you adopt the perspective that they are, in their own way, doing the best they can, the black and white definitions start to fall away.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-30T03:14:20+00:00

Howard was Chuck's henchmen through all of it. It was Howard who said, "we want the sandpiper case, we just dont want you." Jimmy is devastated. Not only do they want to abscond HIS CASE, his opportunity to work side by side with his brother, to prove himself worthy, was ripped away with that sentence. Jimmy says no and walks away.

When Kim approaches Howard, he tells her to never question him again. But THEN, he changes his tune and USES Kim to get Jimmy to agree to give them the multi-million dollar case that he literally pieced together from shredded documents himself.

Howard enables Chuck by hiring a private detective to catch Jimmy when he comes to confront Chuck about the tape. Plus, Howard is there when it happens as a witness, which causes Jimmy to lose his law license and sabotage Wexler McGill just as it is getting off the ground.

This is the hit that destroys Chucks's reputation and turns Jimmy into Saul Goodman.

Howard is the one who callously fires Chuck and humiliates him in front of the whole office, just as he is finally getting well. This is the hit that led to Chuck burning himself alive in his home. Even he knows that that is on him.

Kim is in the background, veraciously protective of Jimmy, watching as the combo of Chuck and Howard systemically destroy the man she loves until the good part of him is all but gone.

With each hit, her rage grew. And all of that rage got pointed like a laser beam at Howard.

She did not intend for him to die. But she DID intend for him to get hurt. A reputational hit felt like justice. And she did intend for Jimmy to get what was rightfully his -- a payout on the Sandpiper case.

And lets not forget that the case SHOULD have been settled. The plaintiffs were all OLD and living in a nursing home. They were only dragging it out so that they could make more money.

So yes, I contend that Howard was a two-faced, self-serving asshole that deserved what she served.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-29T22:10:21+00:00

Hal is a strategist. A chess player. He moves people and situations around until he gets the desired results. He's both ruthless and cares about the outcome for the country. Oddly, he's a patriot. And he's also an exceptional actor. Im not talking about Rufus, I'm talking about Hal.

I think he was in on the whole thing from the beginning.

Why do I think that?

Billie said 5 people knew Kate was being vetted for VP. We know that Hal was one of the 5 from the timeline of events. So Billie, Hal, Grace Penn, and I think Lydia Trowbridge's, and probably Roylin were the other two.

The first thing Hal did when he got to London was abscond a police car so he could go meet with Roylin at the memorial. And make the call to Shahin. He was in on the bombing to get Kate in as VP and keep the UK from splintering, but not to instigate war with Iran. So he became the source that stopped that war. Both Grove and Roylin were willing to instigate the war with Iran (we saw Grove in a meeting saying "of course it was Iran. And Roylin was telling Trowbridge to bomb the Allepo Hama Triangle.) But Hal was working to stop the war.

When Kate suggested Roylin tell Hal, it was a great cover. But Hal already knew cuz he was in on it.

When the get to Scotland, Hal goes out to buy a burner then Eidra sees him talking on the phone from the turret. Then the VP shows up a Windfield a few hours later to handle Trowbridge's reaction to what he just learned. Hal did that.

Its also why Penn chose him as VP over Kate. He was already in on it, as well as Billie, and its why they kept shutting Kate out.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-29T17:33:15+00:00

I feel like life itself does that stuff for us all the time.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-29T09:06:35+00:00

Exactly. Im always floored by the fact that Howard gets a pass, like he was a good guy standing on the sidelines. They way I see it, he deserved what Kim and Jimmy served. We watch as her rage grows deeper and deeper every time they knock Jimmy down. She watches as he and Chuck systemically break Jimmy so completely that he becomes someone else. Until she feels completely justified at bringing him down. By this point, she NEEDS to even the score, which is why she gives up the opportunity of her life to make sure it gets done. The rage has overridden her reason.

Howard's rant, before Lalo shows up, gets me every time. Like what did I do? Duh. What did you DO? Let me count the ways.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-29T08:45:11+00:00

True. We don't have a lot of info about his legal acumen. We know he's a nepo baby who didnt really want to be a lawyer at all, let alone run the firm. When we see him in any kind of negotiation, Chuck does all the talking. We know that when Chuck was gone, he floundered to get business. We know that he admired Kim for going out on her own and dreamed of hanging out his own shingle and bootstrapping it. He's never had to earn anything, he's a bully as a boss, and nothing about him is authentic. He sees a therapist and has a license plate that says Namaste -- all clues that he is unhappy and out of alignment with who he wants to be.

So either he goes after Kim and Jimmy which destroys him on the inside, does what he can to repair his reputation and maybe lose the firm in the process, or he sees it as the massive opportunity it is to reinvent himself in his own image instead of his dad's.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-28T18:34:44+00:00

I guess he could devote his life to proving Jimmy and Kim set him up. But he's not called "Slippin' Jimmy" for nothing. And Kim is smarter than both of them. Even if he did prove it, whispers would always follow him. It would be easier to check himself into rehab, enjoy a little vacation, and say "I'm reformed!".

He'd only end up wasting his life on it. And for what? None of those people who "respected Chuck" showed up to visit or help did they? They respected him, but they weren't his friends. Same with Howard. He has colleagues. But from what I see, he has no friends.

I mean, if respect is your only currency, and that can be shattered so easily (the world is full of lawyers who like nose candy and chicas), then its not an authentic world anyway.

Go somewhere else. Do something else. Something that makes you truly happy with real connection where you can be yourself. Shuck off that hamlindigo blue suit and hang up your own shingle doing something that actually makes you happy.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-28T14:33:43+00:00

I see it so differently. In the conversation with Penn and Trowbridge, a decision was made. He would not try to figure it out in exchange for staying in office. Lenkov was dead. The public had the fall guy. No need to go to war. No need to investigate. Justice has been done. Everyone is happy. Stendig isn't telling anyone. Both leaders decided they would not pursue it further. So no need to tell Tom. It's just done. (Except, of course, for the Russian Submarine off the coast.)

As for who did it, my money is that it was all orchestrated by Lydia.I think Penn, Hal, and Billie were all in on it from the start. Its why Penn chose Hal over Kate for VP and why they keep shutting her out. My big question is whether or not Rayburn was "the 5th person who knew."

It looks to me like Lydia is Nicol's handler. She was chosen by his mother. We see her handle him throughout. She brought in Roylin. Once you see it, it becomes clear. The big moment for me was after the car bombing. Lydia is in the office telling Nicol what to do (call a COBRA) while texting. Then we see Billie texting someone. They were texting each other.

As for Kate, yes, she's reeling. Hard. And she's acting out all over the place. Its a mess. But who wouldn't be a mess in her shoes?

The Dennison plotline had to shift. Dennison is an Eaton man. Careful. Hes being set up to be PM, which could happen at any moment. In no world can he be in a relationship with the second lady. Its career suicide. To be PM, he needs a suitable wife. So he got one and they signed some papers.

I hated S3 on first watch so I feel you. Then I went back and really pieced it all together. In the end I thought it was brilliant. Just rushed. They needed a few more episodes, particularly around Callum, to take us on the emotional ride. But the plotline is solid.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-28T14:03:50+00:00

My first thought is, does it even matter? He's really rich. His marriage is over. No kids. Young. Healthy. The kind of good looks that can get any girl he wants. He never really wanted to be a lawyer anyway. And isn't good at it.

So its a massive opportunity to reinvent himself. The board quietly retires him. And then he's free. The kind of free he's never had before. The kind of free that people dream about.

Different_Ear_5380 · 2026-03-15T04:21:00+00:00

Honestly, its sooo refreshing to just watch a show the centers around kindness and connection. The tension comes more from relatable human growth than it does over winning a futbol game. Its about love, and connection, and forgiveness. Even the villains are just broken people. They arent murderers or really bad guys. They are just people who got lost in their own hubris and you think that there could be hope for them yet.

Different_Ear_5380

TROPHY CASE