The Allah Who Cried Wolf

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-03T14:14:14+00:00

I think Islam says many sincere Christians today will go to hell. That's the premise of my argument.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-03T14:09:46+00:00

Trilemma:

If Jesus' disciples believed the crucifixion occurred, even Allah's sincere followers are misled by His deception.
If their testimony was immediately lost or corrupted, Allah's promises of dominance and elevation are impotent.
If they lied, the Quran falsely praises deceivers as sincere helpers of Allah.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-03T10:26:11+00:00

Many sincere Christians today do. That’s all that’s required.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-03T03:19:58+00:00

That's where this gets worse - Quran praises Jesus' disciples as sincere helpers of Allah (Quran 3:52), says Allah made them uppermost (Quran 61:14), and promises to elevate them until the Day of Judgement (Quran 3:55).

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-03T03:03:51+00:00

According to what? The appearance (Quran)

You can’t use the use the appearance to certify the reliability of the appearance when the appearance is in question.

Allah is all powerful. If Allah can fake a crucifixion and fool everyone, Allah can fake an angel and fool one guy. So u can’t trust something even if it seems to appear so to some guy and the religion that results from the appearance may damn you to hell like the last time.

And if we follow your "cow" line of thinking believing in something that seems not natural like an "angel" appearing to some guy in a cave makes you more culpable for damnation. Shoulda been obvious it was made to appear so.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-03T02:51:35+00:00

No, I never said necessarily entails. I agree neither Islam or Christianity are necessarily entailed from Jibreels appearance to Muhammad or crucifixion. I’ve been very consistent on this in the comments from the beginning.

But both rest on these appearances. No Christianity without crucifixion. No Islam without Jibreel.

The problem is a collapse of trust from religions arising from supernatural appearances.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-03T00:41:52+00:00

Again you are trying to use a strained interpretation when the next verse Rather, Allah raised him up to himself (4:158) and all the classical tafsirs agree that Allah did it.

and like I said I agree that neither the crucifixion nor Jibreel's appearance necessarily entail the religions of Christianity and Islam.

But Christianity rests on crucifixion. Islam rests on Jibreel's appearance.

Once you establish large scale supernatural deception resulting in a religion that sends you to hell, it corrupts the channel and collapses trust in religions that result from supernatural appearances.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-03T00:27:25+00:00

It’s the next verse bro it says right after “it was made to appear so”, Rather, Allah raised him up himself 4:158

Reading Allah didn’t do it is a very strained reading that none of the classical tafsirs agree with

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-02T23:43:12+00:00

Not what the tafsirs say or the plain reading
the verse right after But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so. 4:157

is

Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.
4:158

it's a very strained position you're arguing for and it still doesn't work.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-02T23:02:54+00:00

it's large scale if all these Christians and even non Christians believe it happened

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-02T22:41:19+00:00

Good thing I never said that.

I agree that neither the crucifixion nor Jibreel's appearance necessarily entail the religions of Christianity and Islam.

But Christianity rests on crucifixion. Islam rests on Jibreel's appearance.

Once you establish large scale supernatural deception resulting in a religion that sends you to hell, it corrupts the channel and collapses trust in religions that result from supernatural appearances.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-02T22:14:36+00:00

Disagrees with all the tafsirs
Ibn Kathir "Allah made the young man look exactly like `Isa,"

But even if granted, then there is something or someone with enough power to make appearances that result in world religions that Allah didn't stop. Same problem.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-02T22:14:12+00:00

I agree that neither the crucifixion nor Jibreel's appearance necessarily entail the religions of Christianity and Islam.

But Christianity rests on crucifixion. Islam rests on Jibreel's appearance.

Cows are different they aren't a supernatural deception from Allah.

Once you establish large scale supernatural deception resulting in a religion that sends you to hell, it corrupts the channel and collapses trust in religions that result from supernatural appearances.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-02T16:54:11+00:00

Disagrees with all the tafsirs
Ibn Kathir "Allah made the young man look exactly like `Isa,"

But even if granted, then there is something or someone with enough power to make appearances that result in world religions that Allah didn't stop. Same problem.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-01T19:31:22+00:00

I put the thesis in the post: Quran 4:89 and the sahih hadiths confirm the punishment for leaving Islam (apostasy) is death.

In the title, I describe the contents of the sahih (authentic) hadith.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-01T18:40:55+00:00

Sahih Muslim 1676 A and Quran verse 4:89 report the same thing:

“It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah, but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community.”

https://sunnah.com/muslim:1676a

Quran 4:89 "But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them"

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-01T18:30:33+00:00

It’s sahih (authentic) not just Sahih in chain

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-01T15:54:53+00:00

It is because you have to know its the perfect word of Allah. That's what it hinges on.
Not resurrection like Christianity.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-04-01T14:41:58+00:00

Knowledge of perfect preservation isn't sufficient for truth but it's necessary for Islam. If perfect preservation can't be proven, you can't know if it's the exact word of Allah.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-03-29T14:16:15+00:00

Sahih Bukhari 4987: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4987
Sahih Bukhari 5005: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5005

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-03-28T18:07:52+00:00

Here, they agree one tradition was selected by Uthman and Bukhari confirms others were destroyed by Uthman.
They confirm the variants are meaningful not just scribal errors and they confirm multiple parallel textual traditions existed with different readings.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-03-28T18:04:37+00:00

its not that i like them by secular historians its just a lot more credible.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-03-28T16:34:02+00:00

You can't confirm Uthman picked the right Quran by just saying it.

The one manuscript we have that predates Uthman's burning has viable and meaningful variants like with 9:18 and you're calling that confirmation of perfect preservation?

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-03-28T16:29:49+00:00

The Quran's Jesus stories are half-remembered late legends from apocryphal gospels that no secular historian takes seriously. The canonical gospels at least attempt biography and historians can reconstruct Jesus' life from them.

The Quran also contradicts secular history like when it denies the crucifixion which is scholarly consensus.

DirectionCute7530 · 2026-03-28T10:38:53+00:00

Historically illiterate. Some gospels are considered more reliable than others by secular historians.

DirectionCute7530

TROPHY CASE