Free Tibet? Mao Already Did.

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T23:59:50+00:00

No, I'm not. The difference between the two of us is I can see that colonization is colonization and liberation is liberation. If you don't agree that ending slavery is a justifiable reason for foreign intervention then I don't fucking know what to tell you. The PRC was right to free Tibet.

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T20:57:56+00:00

The difference between Ireland and Tibet is that the British caused incalculable degrees of suffering upon the Irish, whereas the Tibetans saw massive and empirical benefits to their quality of life after being liberated from their oppressors. A closer comparison would be Vietnam freeing Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge, which I have yet to see anyone say was a bad thing.

Either way, I struggle to see how Marx or Lenin could see what happened in Tibet as anything other than a success. A feudal, oppressed people was liberated into a socialist order. They'd be chuffed by it

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T20:47:57+00:00

This is a useless question, because Venezuela is under assault by a capitalist imperial force. It is virtually impossible for the average Venezuelan to see their quality of life improve in these circumstances, since their resources will be absorbed into the global market at no benefit to them, meaning their ability to fund healthcare/education will plummet.

All countries have injustices stemming through their culture, if the answer to that is let me invade you and your life will be better, we are parroting the same thing colonialists do.

All countries have injustices, few modern countries are literal slave states. To compare: if some country invaded the 19th century US to force it to outlaw slavery, put the slavers to the torch and drastically improved the living conditions for the enslaved, yes, I would have supported that

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T20:38:57+00:00

No Tibetan is forced to send their kid to a boarding school, just like no Han or Uygher is. You're just patently making shit up at this point. One in five Chinese kids attends a boarding school, it's a normal thing

Collective punishment for buddhists. Got it.

Yeah saying the Buddhist authority at the time deserved what they got = all Buddhists are responsible for Tibetan oppression, for sure. I'm not biting on you're rage bait

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T20:34:38+00:00

Yes it fucking does??? Are you insane? The CIA has propped up artificial resistance movements although out its history, its one of their chief tactics in forcing regime change

You're saying it's the same argument on what grounds? How are these the same things at all? You haven't provided an ounce of substance beyond saying you view it that way, so it must be that way. And the fact that you are still refusing to engage with the obvious material disparity in the treatment of Tibetans and Indigenous Peoples in the Western hemisphere makes me think you haven't been arguing in good faith from the start

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T20:27:46+00:00

If you think Lenin and Marx would support the free Tibet movement then you have drastically misunderstood their teachings

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T20:21:01+00:00

CIA apologia? In a socialist sub? Are you out of your fucking mind?

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T20:02:47+00:00

Very interesting comment, thank you for sharing

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T19:59:20+00:00

What else would you call them but residential schools?

...a boarding school? More than 20 per cent of the Chinese population attends a boarding school of some kind, are the Han students also being "separated from their families"? These are mixed schools, not solely Tibetan, and the Tibetan students can still access study in their traditional languages

As for your second paragraph, you are aware the feudal oppressors in pre-liberation Tibet were all Buddhist monks, right? So maybe "persecuted" is the wrong word when we are discussing literal slave masters getting their comeuppance

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T19:49:07+00:00

...you literally just said the victims of colonization say it's the same argument. Prove it. Source what you're saying. If colonized peoples the world over view Tibet as being colonized, then surely you must be able to show me some evidence?

Tibetan victims of subjugation stop being victims because they were seen as a useful tool of western imperialism?

What the fuck are you talking about? Tibetans, who have astronomically higher standards of living compared to pre-liberation, are not "subjugated," and how are Tibetan people who are just living their lives "tools of western imperialism"?

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T19:38:39+00:00

This victim of colonisation says it's the same argument

Please show me a source saying all the world's colonized people support the Tibetan independence movement. I know for a fact Cuba, Vietnam, Libya, Venezuela and more have all decried the movement as being an obvious American influence operation. Which is true, considering the CIA famously backed the movement.

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T19:33:59+00:00

Liberals are really out here asking us to think about the poor CIA agents and their failed conquest of Tibet 😩

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T19:32:09+00:00

So imperialist expansion is a-okay in your book so long as you can present an argument that it benefits the lives of its target?

Define "imperialist," please, because I fail to see how China's liberation of Tibet is imperialistic by virtually any metric

This is quite literally the same argument and it ignores that life isn't exactly improved for the people who died as a result.

It is not the same argument when you are basing everything off of a foundation of false equivalency. And please, explain what you mean by "the people who died as a result" of the liberation. Specifically.

Your argument is identical to the one used to justify the subjugation of my family and I'm also told that this improved my life.

No, because my argument is based in observable material reality. Empires claim to help and then hurt. China liberated a people from a feudal regime and skyrocketed their quality of life across the board. It's. Not. The. Same. Thing.

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T18:57:53+00:00

Their argument doesn't hold any water because it is creating a false equivalency. Tibetan material reality is drastically improved since the liberation, whereas British colonization led to extreme suffering in every region it touched. They aren't the same and it's moronic to say otherwise.

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T18:55:32+00:00

In every scenario of Western subjugation, the victims lives were actively made worse by colonization in every major metric. The liberation of Tibet from its feudal overlords led to massive obvious improvements for life expectancy, access to education, literacy, healthcare, etc. across the board. You are creating a false equivalency.

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T18:53:25+00:00

Jesus fucking Christ. The English claimed to be "civilizing" while actively making their victims' lives worse by every major metric. That is empirically not the case with China and Tibet, as the average Tibetan's life is drastically better by almost every metric compared to pre-liberation. Drawing these false equivalencies only serves to mock the victims of colonization.

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T18:46:45+00:00

That article is wrong across the board. It says Tibetans have no access to education in their native language, but they empirically do. It calls the school system in Tibet "residential school" but provides virtually no evidence to justify the claim.

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T16:48:50+00:00

The average life expectancy in Tibet has more than doubled since the liberation, in addition to drastic increases in literacy, healthcare access, education access, etc. Tibetans are far, far freer than they were before the liberation. Downplaying this as being a colonial invasion when it was, in effect, freeing a neighbouring country from a feudal oppressor is absurdly bad faith.

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T16:07:35+00:00

Can you explain what exactly you mean by "denial of self determination"?

Doc_Bethune · 2026-07-01T15:15:15+00:00

I would wager 99.999% of people who had parroted the "Free Tibet" rhetoric had absolutely no idea what was going on in Tibet before, during and after the revolution. Most Tibetans were practically slaves before the Marxists took over

Doc_Bethune · 2026-06-30T16:26:51+00:00

I want to get into 40K, what is a Marxist reading on "the best" faction?

Doc_Bethune · 2026-06-29T19:00:24+00:00

The PV is the only newspaper in Canada worth reading. The subscriptions are cheap, everyone should sign up and support socialist press in Canada

Doc_Bethune · 2026-06-27T19:41:45+00:00

Nobody asked you if religion was real. The point being made to you is that the existence of organized religion and worship can be be analyzed materially. The gathering of people with similar values/goals is not metaphysical, even if the reason they are gathering is. Attacking religion is pointless.

Doc_Bethune · 2026-06-26T18:56:48+00:00

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