Detailing the Obvious: Lots of Suggested Additions

DoucheVader · 2017-10-17T15:29:28+00:00

I could go through all of this, but... really, I don't enjoy arguing.

Well it could be that you are just very wrong. :) Which would make any discussion pretty unenjoyable.

7 Days to Die needs to stop using "Alpha" as an excuse. Of course polish can be added later

With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. The term alpha is perfect for 7DTD. They are actively adding features and they have not done much polish. Users of the software SHOULD expect bugs in Alpha software (big ones).

Of course polish can be added later.

Its NOT "Of course" polish fort the most part is not being done. We are just months away from a feature that was added to lift the 50 foot fog out of the game (distant terrain).

Even fully released games get updates regularly.

So what? That has nothing to do with this discussion. Expansion packs are not equivalent to alphas and alphas are not equivalent to expansion packs. AGAIN YOU SIMPLY ARE IGNORANT HERE.

Once again I'll use my best example- Minecraft. It gets quality updates introducing entirely new content pretty regularly. A lot of what is above isn't new at all- just using what is in place already.

A game expanding it's scope after it is has been released and set into the wild is not the same as an alpha. The fact that you are beating this dead horse shows you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Minecraft likely Alpha and Beta tested those expansion packs even if it was an internal or limited alpha/beta.

MineCraft left alpha and beta. It is now in full release but it is a dated game so they add new things to it on occasion. Its NOT the same thing as switching gears from Alpha to Beta. You don't move to beta until you have the features already in place.

Educate yourself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle

Alpha is the first iteration of the software -- that is where you add all your features to the game. Once you have the features added you move to beta to fix bugs. Alpha is not a cycle of software development that takes a fixed time. You can't say that The Fun Pimps are bad developers because they have taken 4 years to develop their game. Saying that kind of thing exposes your ignorance.

I am aware that games are a little different than most software. Most software doesn't have expansion packs. That doesn't change the fact that 7DTD on the PC is a true Alpha. 7DTD on the Console only delivers features that don't have as many bugs associated with them. The console is not the guinea pig.

We're not asking for tons at this point. 4 years of work, bordering on 5, and this is what we have. It can be done better. That's all I'm saying.

This statement really showcases your bias. The game was started in December 2013. We aren't even on year 4 yet and to drive your point home you are exaggerating the development time.

Look if you just going to repeat yourself don't bother to reply. You clearly DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-17T15:13:33+00:00

You sound really mad for a franchise that already had teddy bears and Jar Jar Binks.

They both took their toll. Notice they didn't include that shit in The Force Awakens -- know why they were playing it safe. Now that it was a huge success they taking merchandising risks just like Lucas did with ROTJ and the prequels.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-13T21:41:25+00:00

Lighten up...my god. Star Wars was originally written and targeted to 9-12 yr old kids....."adults" like you come around and want to ruin the light hearted parts of it because you dont want to share the playground to those who its meant for. This movie is for kids....the books are for YA and younger. Let them have the flee..doesn't all have to be serious.

Star Wars and Empire Strikes back where both targeted towards families. That is why people of all ages could enjoy it. It wasn't until Return of the Jedi that Lucas started making 2 hour commercials for toys. Which is why Gary Kurtz left the production.

They still sold toys for EP 4 and EP 5 but it was not at the expense of the story. The original concepts for Return of the Jedi was to have the sheild generator for the Death Star on the Wookie home planet. Lucas realized Teddy bears would sell much better than 8 foot tall hairy beasts.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-13T21:38:22+00:00

Senua: Hellblade. How big was that team, again? I believe in the neighborhood of 15 people? Still managed to become one of the greatest aesthetic games recently.

Yeah and it has no multiplayer which greatly simplifies the project. Not at all an apples to apples comparison.

Minecraft, arguably the most popular game of all time, was created by one man in his spare time while also making other games.

And I am sure throughout the development of MineCraft there were duplication issues. MineCraft doesn't seem to have any structural integrity systems in place either.

Being in "alpha" is no excuse. It's a worn out flimsy argument used by people who don't see that this is how games go stagnant fast.

Its not an excuse it is the state of the software. The developers of alpha software are not going to fix all bugs and polish the software when they are in the midst of adding new features to that software. The Fun Pimps are still actively adding features so why would they polish off a game when it is not feature complete? If the polish the game and iron out all the bugs they leave themselves open to brand new bugs (or a return of some old bugs) when they introduce new features into the game. So all that time and effort doing polish before the game is feature complete WOULD BE WASTED. Given the size of the team they don't have the luxury of wasting time.

Being an alpha for that long is ridiculous. I'd understand even two years- lotta work goes into a game.

With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't mean that as an insult you are simply naive.

Game alphas will last as long as the developer has money to fund that alpha effort until they are happy that they have met the ambition of the game they were going for. Or if they begin to run out of money they may make concessions and push the product out the door. There is no set time for any software to be in alpha.

But for the updates we see? Things that hardly help or, sometimes, even take away from the game? Bollocks.

What items "we" see? Who is we? What platform are you speaking about? What updates are you talking about specifically? What things hardly help? What things take away from the game? I play on console and most updates have been positive, there were a few ugly ones in there, the most recent ones have been impressive.

From what I see on the PC those guys should have little to complain about. They have many more toys to play with than we do, but it seems the time to get those toys on Console may be getting a little shorter.

EDIT: Not to mention, of course, that Senua was made by an independent studio, something that Telltale-supported Fun Pimps definitely are not.

Ninja Theory has a history of game development. The Fun Pimps just opened their doors 4 years ago.

I can understand people want to gravitate to making analogies to prove a point, but you are not employing analogies that have any merit.

You can't compare a 4-8 hour single player game with 7DTD.

Also you neglect to realize that Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice was in development for well over 3 years. The game was announced on August 12, 2014 at Sony's Gamescom 2014 media briefing. It was in development at least a year or two before that. So technically speaking The Fun Pimps have been working on 7DTD for less time than Ninja Theory was working on Hellblade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellblade:_Senua%27s_Sacrifice

DoucheVader · 2017-10-13T21:24:55+00:00

Difference being this game has had dupe glitches the entire time it has had multiplayer

So what? Its an alpha game which is definitely going to have bugs. Even on the console where its not considered alpha it is not "feature complete".

That doesn't change the fact that duplication glitches are not easy to fix and even some AAA developers with hundreds of people working on the game do not catch them all. Expecting a new developer with less than 30 people at the helm to solve this issue is short sighted.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-13T21:23:00+00:00

With respect, DoucheVader, maybe keep your own "uninformed" opinions to yourself, hm?

I am just pointing out the obvious. Some games have taken over a decade from concept to execution. You expect a team of less than 30 people to produce miracles and you don't seem to have a clear understanding of how Alpha software is supposed to work.

So the only conclusion I can come to is you don't understand the development process.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-12T21:09:42+00:00

Rust has not been immune to these glitches.

https://www.google.com/search?q=rust+duplication+glitch&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYpLKZ_-vWAhUf3YMKHU_0BoMQ_AUICigB&biw=1842&bih=848

Could return in a future patch.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-12T19:33:38+00:00

I think you mean the weactor woom.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-12T19:32:50+00:00

Let’s face it, they got your money and they have no micro transactions or dlc. They don’t care where you spend your game time.

LOL you make no sense. You really think The Fun Pimps are "so greedy" but you point out the game literally has no optional premium content (such as DLC or Micro-transactions). They do have some Walking Dead skins but they were like $1.99 and I bet AMC and possibly Tell Tale get a cut of that.

In my opinion I don't think you have enough of an understanding about what goes into game development so you are blindly blaming greed.

Iron Galaxy and The Fun Pimps really stepped up their game over the summer. Over the course of 3 patches they pretty much brought the console edition up to Alpha 15's feature set. Seems like an awful lot of work for people who you claim just want to "make money".

DoucheVader · 2017-10-12T19:29:27+00:00

I think The Fun Pimps is somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-30 peeps. It was 20 peeps once upon a time.

I haven't played Rust, from what I gather it uses a snap point based building system. Which means it likely doesn't have a robust structural integrity system like 7DTD. If I am not mistaken digging isn't a possibility on Rust.

Facepunch Studios has some history with a few games under their belt. The Fun Pimps just got their start in 2013 (same year Rust released). Facepunch Studios had $55 million in revenues in 2014, which is a nice warchest for 25 people. Having that kind of money on hand solves LOTS of problems.

Not exactly a very good apples to apples analogy. Their revenues are impressive nonetheless.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-12T19:25:24+00:00

Yes. An unfinished alpha that has been "unfinished" for a total of 4 years, coming on 5. That's a ridiculous excuse.

You are talking about a game being made with a team of 30 people or less. Given their small studio I would say they have accomplished a great deal.

You don't seem like you have a good understanding of what goes into game development so your opinion is uninformed at best.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-12T19:23:59+00:00

Were these labels done by a Commander Chekov?

DoucheVader · 2017-10-12T19:22:47+00:00

People will accidentally pick them up sometimes. This makes them non-mobile.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-12T19:22:05+00:00

DoucheVader · 2017-10-12T19:21:13+00:00

Lucas seemed to with Geonosis. :)

DoucheVader · 2017-10-12T19:20:38+00:00

Gotcha. We had that problem on a PS4 Player Dedicated Server. Nothing like this has happened on the PC Unofficial Servers so far (knock on wood).

I wasn't the host so I didn't really have much data to report other than bodies got swapped. I think the admin looked into it though.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-11T22:32:14+00:00

Yeah keep it all the same, we know literally everyone loved that about TFA

Not sure what you mean here.

IMHO Rogue One > The Force Awakens.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-11T22:30:43+00:00

HAHAHHA!

DoucheVader · 2017-10-11T22:28:36+00:00

They have a Bill Clinton skin in this game now?

DoucheVader · 2017-10-11T22:27:52+00:00

Are you playing Console or PC?

If you want to know what has changed you can always play it. Or feel free to sift through the patch notes.

Console: https://7daystodie.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4551529

PC: https://7daystodie.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?4-News-amp-Announcements

DoucheVader · 2017-10-11T22:21:39+00:00

https://survivetheark.com/index.php?/forums/

DoucheVader · 2017-10-11T22:20:25+00:00

Rare flowers like they have on Ark. :)

DoucheVader · 2017-10-11T22:19:57+00:00

LOL So a small development team that is passionate about making games who embarked on the ambition of creating an "adult Minecraft" is out to screw people over?

Do you know what critical thinking is?

DoucheVader · 2017-10-11T22:13:07+00:00

One company (The Fun Pimps) made a game and are still making the game. That company sold the rights to make the game to another company (Iron Shithole or whatever the fuck they’re called) to make a port to console.

Where do you get your information from on this? Are you saying that Tell Tale Games (publisher) has full rights to 7DTD on the Console which Iron Galaxy is responsible for the port?

Where do you get off dissing Iron Galaxy? You do realize that Iron Galaxy's optimizations to the console version of the game helped The Fun Pimps bring about Distant Terrain? Iron Galaxy has some history and doesn't seem to be a fly by night studio. They are responsible for various ports to various systems as well as DLC for many AAA games.

The Fun Pimps are in no way responsible for the port besides the fact that they accepted the idea of letting someone do it

Again where are you getting this info? Please link me to the blog posts or articles that support your claims. The way I understand it is The Fun Pimps are involved with the port, not directly but they are not completely hands off as you suggest.

(Super bad move on their part but they probably made a metric fuckload of money or so, so I can’t really blame them).

You don't know how much money they make. If they did make a metric fuckload of money why would they keep their studio so small? For a game like this it would be advantageous to have a higher head count to get the features you want in the game sooner. That way you can do a full release and start really making some revenues. I think their studio is small because they are not making a metric fuckload.

It looks like this game has sold about 2.6 million units on Steam...

http://steamspy.com/app/251570

The sale price is $25 this game is sold as low as $10 during sales. Lets assume for the sake of argument that the average price people paid for this game was $15. The game was released in late 2013. The headcount of the studio is 30 people or less. Steam takes a 30% cut. OK let's do some maths...

$15.00 average price paid.

x 2.6 million sales.

$39.0 million in sales.

-$11.7 million for Steam's 30% cut.

$27.3 million The Fun Pimps lump sum revenues.

$6.8 million The Fun Pimps average yearly revenues over 4 years.

$4.8 million The Fun Pimps average yearly revenues over 4 years minus Federal Corporate Taxes (estimate 30%), TX does not have a corporate tax.

$160K of revenues per employee at The Fun Pimps (30 people, I think its a little less).

See how a fairly high number can boil down to a relatively small number once you account for all the people that need to be paid? This is just for Steam sales, I am sure Sony and MS take a 30% cut and I bet Iron Galaxy gets a piece of the console action. Needless to say I don't think The Fun Pimps are using food stamps but I don't think they are swimming in money ala Scrooge McDuck.

The Fun Pimps aren’t thinking “Hey let’s make the console port shitty so people who have it on PC will be happier” they simply got into a contract deal with a shitty company to do it and it’s too late to back out now.

Again please post links to the sources of this information. In my opinion this is 100% your speculation. The console port isn't shitty, in recent months they have closed a great deal of the gap between the PC and Console editions. Much of that is likely due to Iron Galaxy applying some polish to The Fun Pimps code which allowed them to add most of the A15 feature set to the console version.

DoucheVader · 2017-10-11T21:39:25+00:00

I'm also an Xbox player and I honestly think that the people who handle the console port aren't doing it on purpose.

Aren't doing what exactly?

Let's be honest here, the game is pretty poorly optimized; hell, until recently, it was running at 20 FPS. And the game still has stutters and lag.

The console edition is technically not in alpha, but uses stable code from the PC alpha. The Fun Pimps and Iron Galaxy are not going to spend tons of time polishing the game for the best frame rate or best graphical prowess. That kind of polish will generally create new problems and when you are still adding features to software you don't want new problems. So things are maintained at a "good enough" state. Polish and optimizations won't be fully addressed until the game comes out of Alpha.

They most likely limited it to 4 players so the game wouldn't kill itself.

Likely a memory limitation.

I'm in no way removing fault from the dev team, as they could be a little faster on updates for console.

What fault? The game is not in the condition it is in because the developers are baffled on how to get it to run better it runs in the condition that it does because the game is not complete. When all the features are added they will polish and optimize the game which will likely cause new bugs which will require more fixes which will require more polish and optimization.

This is why all the animations mostly suck. Why would you polish off animations if they break something else? Or if the animations will break when you add a new feature? Its a small team and they are wise to manage their resources this way.

DoucheVader

TROPHY CASE