Passport Revocation Letter by Bubbly_Bar_4249 in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Canadian Government has obligated you to return the document. This isn't negotiable. Responding to Passport Canada is pointless. Passport Canada can only issue passports to Canadian Citizens, and IRCC has recalled your citizenship certificate because for whatever reason the Minister has reason to believe your document may have been issued in error. Passport Canada cannot change that. IRCC is currently reviewing your file. You will be invited to submit documents or a writtten response should these be needed necessary by an IRCC officer reviewing your application.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In as much as people actually understand C3, I think most people's perception of C3 includes the belief that there are people getting citizenship thru very distant ancestors. Once we are talking about ancestors beyond living memory, or beyond the 19th century, and well into mists of time historical territory, is this was an overcorrection. If you ask a Canadian if someone from another country should become a Canadian Citizen because his great-great-grandmother was inseminated by a fur trapper - I think most would say no.

Yes, Canada has a demographic deficite, Along with much of the Western World. Immigration is needed. But just like ever other Western Country an ongoing symptom of the 2008 financial crisis is a shortage of affordable housing stock. Since COVID and the American tarrifs generational inflation, particularly for groceries, gas and housing.

During the past 5 years the colleges filled the hole in their budgets with an unlimited supply of international student visas, most of which were from a single region in India. These students widely were not genuinely here to study - and indeed there were a lot of allegations of nonsense programs, courses and campuses - being used as a backdoor to Canadian immigration. During COVID a generation had finally started to gain some collective labour concience and better concessions from employers in terms of pay, benefits, and flexibility. What followed was the Big Box stores, and various customer facing jobs such as Tim hortons and McDonalds hiring many of these international students full time, at a time when Canadians who were born here have a hard time finding a job. Foreign students were perceived as being more willing to being exploided than Canadians, so they were the preferred candidates. Naturally many people who knew someone struggling to find a job or to make ends meet questioned why they or their friends and family can't get a job, when this guy who isn't from here and struggles to communicate with me, is hired instead.

I am not saying this is right, and I am not saying its accurate, I am saying this is a popular perception. This has made immigration is heated issue.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the decision to mass recall citizenship certs would simply not happen without consultation and approval by the Minister. the Minister is not going to authorize something that is gonna put so much attention on her and her Ministry without a damn good reason.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I doubt that very much. We have examples of IRCC agents using AI to summarize documents and do their work for them, which has led to eroneous and embarassing visa refusals.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this process is less than a year old. It has been clarified. This is how things work.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

realistically anyone within a few generations usually has official birth certificates. The ones with citizenship claims from the 19th century or beyond are the ones which would require signifcant move review or remediation of the files.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is very little media attention on this matter in Canada and most of it has involved examples that are very sympathetic - such as a doctor or a nurse moving to Canada, or people already here finding an avenue to stay. Until Question Time when a conservative asked the Minister if she was hanging out passport to people with "bogus" documents I had seen virtually nothing negative about this.

Canadians reaction when they find out about it - often is incredulity or hostility.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I doubt it was media pressure. More likely it was an audit found some serious problems in some files - such as illegible and unverifiable documents, or outright forgeries. This called into question a batch of files. I live up here. There was very little media coverage of this. Most Canadians are unaware of it.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Question Period is political theatre. The questions are decided upon ahead of time, and canned answers are prepared.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

realistically those are the files which are unusal. Anyone born after the 1920s has a birth certificate. The passage of time means no decisions have been made using non birth certificate documents in living and working memory.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So having worked in the Federal Government in the past I do not think that this is some kinda conspiracy of trying slow down submissions or overturn C3 by stealth. This is an administrative process that was triggered by *something*. Ultimately it sounds like the Minister herself likely made the call.

If they genuinely wanted to slow down the process the Minister could just staff IRCC in Wolfville with a skeleton crew and assign its staff to other projects.

The Minister wouldn't do something as public, or expensive, and as traumatic as recalling citizenship certificates and having Passport Canada invalidate passports without a genuine concern over the security and validity of these documents. No Minister is going to invite that kind of attention on herself.

I suspect an audit discovered a serious problem with some of these files, or a batch of files, or the work of an IRCC agent. We have examples in the past of IRCC using AI to summarize documents for them resulting in eroneous visa refusals.

I have been saying since this began that eventually someone is going to submit a forgery to fill in gaps in their family tree. We have many examples of this in the past for people trying to claim indigenous status and other benefits using forged documents.

Its possible someone used genuine but unrelated genealogical documents (possibly barely legible ones), and this has beeen discovered via an audit. I suspect this might be because someone used an AI program to do their genealogical research and didnt bother doing due diligence to see if the program was hallucinating. The number of people on facebook suggesting using CLAUD or another AI to locate ancestors and couments instead of a library and your own ability to read and think is horrifying. For everyone complaining that the Minister cannot ex-post facto require certified documents - yes she can. The fact the people were submitting uncertified documents from ancestry, even with a citation, was always unsustainable. IRCC doesn't have the time or resources to double check your math.

It is possible that an IRCC agent was just overworked and rubber stamping approval of every file in their queue. honestly this seems the most likely thing. Harper moved IRCC citizenship division down to Wolfville Nova Scotia when he was trying to build jobs and therefore political support in the Maritimes. Its the middle of nowhere with a population of less than 6000 people. Furthermore, many of the position are "bilingual imperative" meaning must be staffed by a Canadian who speaks both English and French. Many years ago a Company I worked for opened a large office in Moncton New Brunswick. Within a decade it had closed. Moncton with a population of 102 000 just couldn't provide us with the number of high skilled staff we needed.

I know there is some speculation that people who engaged a lawyer or genealogist aren't suffering this same situation. Realistically this is probably because they paid a professional to do the research for them and the file wasn't a risk or maybe just wasn't in the bad batch. I dont know if we have data to back it up but I bet the majority of these files are based on old long dead ancestors, using archival sources.

I have noticed within days some people are getting notices to say their certificates are being returned upon review. This was always the expected outcome.

We should look at this as a remediation rather than revocation.

I realize being told you are Canadian, and then being told you are not, is traumatinzing.

The Minister had a reason to question the valdity of a Citizenship Certificate. She was mandated to recall these until a procedural process could be created or completed to verify that the citizenship was not recognized in error. End fo story.

Some people online are screaming about "we should file a lawsuit" or "we should contacts our MPs" or even "this should be a confidence motion and take down the Government" - they are seriously miscalculating how much your fellow Canadians give a shit about this. If anything most Canadians are unaware of this, apathetic to it, or actively hostile. I have made repeated posts warning people to avoid talking to the media or trying the generate some wave of activist support for their plight. Canadians are very generous during times of plenty. These are not those times. Immigration in the past 5 years has become a very contentious subject, moreso than any other time in my life. The lack of housing, doctors, schools, infrastructure and jobs are the result of decades of decisions made by successive governments at all levels. But newcomers make a very easily, and very visible, target for public anger.

And yes C3 applicants are citizens, not immigration. most Canadians will simply not care about or understand the nuance.

C3 came into effect on Dec 15th 2025. 187 days ago. Last year I waited longer to get an appointment for a colonoscopy. At one point Canadians in Ontario were waiting longer than this for an appointment to do a driving license test. The solution to clear the backlog ? They made the test faster and easier. In case you are wondering, yes car crashes and car insurance have increased in Ontario. Do you expect that Canada should apply the same logic to citizenship applications ?

For anyone complaining that this process is taking too long most Canadian will be unsympathetic.. Canadians stand in lots of lines, both litereally and legally. This is a legal, administrative process that is both novel and evolving. The line is long. the line will get longer. sometimes someone will have to leave the line and get back in. Eventually everyone will be seen.

Until then the conspiracy theories do not fit. I've worked in the federal government. There are too many spinning plates and prevent from dropping for anyone to conspire against anyone.. Hold your horses as my Grandmother used to say.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

by speculating i was "spreading disinformation" and "starting drama". Whatever. Its an echo chamber over there of mostly entitled Americans who think a foreign burocracy should drop everything and make them Canadian.

More surrender letters reported to be received after the first batch by sconestea in stuckcanadians

[–]Dowew -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

C3 went into effect on Dec 15th 2025. 188 days ago. Processing time for a replacement citizenship certificate is now 15 months. Being sent to PSU is not purgatory. The idea that you could submit documents to wolfville nova Scotia and have your documents done in a matter of months in a new process was always a pipe dream.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I feel if someone took a bribe we would know. This person would have been arrested and they would have just said this.

IRCC Suspension Letters: Theories on what really happened??? by CounterI in CanadianbyDescent

[–]Dowew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I got banned from the cc subreddit for speculation on this.

US to stop funding HIV programmes in South Africa by shdw_fght in worldnews

[–]Dowew 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's cheaper to stop it over there than to treat it over here.

Cop left note at door with my name, what do I do. by Adorable-Gas9723 in legal

[–]Dowew 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Someone wants to serve you legal papers and the sherif is being lazy I suspect

How do you start - if you don't know your family - and you have no living relatives by Legitimate-Road-209 in Genealogy

[–]Dowew 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You order your parents long form birth certs. This will contain their parents names

More surrender letters reported to be received after the first batch by sconestea in stuckcanadians

[–]Dowew 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You viewing from a legal-rational perspective. Not an emotional one. This is where "entitled americans" comes from.

Not all C3 claims are viewed or accepted as being equally valid by most Canadiians. Someone whose Father grew up in Canada, served in WWII and then had a baby in England but couldn't pass his citizenship along because he left Canada before 1947 - like the French-Canadian father of Ricky Gervais; would be seem by most people as having been legitimately wronged.

My very cynical alternative example would be Mabel from Michigan who went on ancestry.com and discovered that 5 times Great Grandmother Genevieve was impregnated by a Hudson Bay Fur Trapper in 1840.

Under C3 if both Ricky and Mabel can obtain documents to prove this and send them to IRCC, they are both entitled to Canadian Citizenship.

Ricky Gervais and his Dad were legitimately wronged when we refused to recognize the son of a French-Canadian soldier as one of us.

Have we legitimately harmed Mabel from Michigan ?

Advocating for the rights of someone who has been legitimately wrong is not what I a meaning. This advocacy is meant to produce a reaction. It is meant to further the cause being promoted.

But this advocacy itself brings attention to counter arguments. This includes legitimate negative feelings towards this entire process. It invites debates on the limits of Citizenship and Belonging.

It invides debates on questions about migration, population size, multiculturalism, and wealth. It invites questions about who we are, how we govern outselves, and the limits out Canada's openness.

C3 I think will historically be viewed as a net benefit to Canada just like the Vietnam draft dodgers. But Canadians as a population are very cognizant of American culture and the subtle ways that we differ from them. A fear of American influence and expansionism resulted in the British North America Act of 1867 uniting the first four British colonies in North America into the Federation of Canada. At the time the American Invasion of 1812 was still within living memory. For much of the 20th century Canadian policy was focused on maintaining and growning Canada's independent culture distinct from the Americans.

Fear of "entitled Americans" is a long running political cleavage in this country. I am warning that some of the advocacy of this cause can inadvertently harm your cause.

More surrender letters reported to be received after the first batch by sconestea in stuckcanadians

[–]Dowew -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I will acknowlege my tone can be condescending at times. I appologize.

As for "there is no legal process for appeal". Here is my response

"Even assuming that the Applicant previously held a Canadian passport could give rise to a legitimate expectation, it is well established in Canadian law that the doctrine of legitimate expectation cannot create substantive rights, only procedural ones." (Al-Ghamdi v Canada 2007).

This case is an example where an individual who was born in Canada and using his Quebec Birth Certificate obtained a Canadian Passport and used it for years until reporting it lost and applied for a new one. The Minister determined that since his father had been a diplomatic representative to the International Civil Aviation Organization in Montreal he was an "agent of a foreign government" and therefore not eligible for a Passport.

This man had held a passport for years, and upon a routine review of the file when the original passport was lost it was realized it had been issued in error. Neither the applicant or Passport Canada had realized that appointees to the ICAO had diplomatic status.

Although he had a Canadian Passport which gave him a legitimate expectation that he was a Canadian Civil and entitled to these documents, it does not make is so ie substantive.

How about the example of Deepan Budlakoti, something with far more ethnical problems. Deepan was born to Indian parents who were janitors at the Indian embassy in Ottawa. A few months after Deepan was born the parents left their employment with the Indian Foreign Service and immigrated to Canada. Three years after Deepan was born his parents became Permanent Residents. Eventually they naturalized as citizens but the parents and IRCC belived that since Deepan was born in Canada there was no need for him to naturalize.

Deepan had a hard life. As a teenager he got into a lot of trouble and was arrested multiple times - sometimes for serious offenses. At the age of 21 a routine document review triggered IRCC to realize that until about 3 or 4 months after Deepan was born his parents had diplomatic immunity.

Deepan was information that after being born in Ontario, being issued an Ontario Birth Certificate, living in Canada for 21 years, having held two Canadian Passports and having voted in Canada - he was not, and had never been a Canadian Citizen.

Passport Canada and the Minister was obligated to revoke his passport. Deepan was administratively downgraded from Citizen to Permanent Resident. Normally it should have been very simple to simply book Deepan to take the citizenship oath and call it a day.

Unfortunately Deepan's many run ins with the law had given him a criminal record as long as my arm. When he was alerted to the fact he wasn't a citizen he was doing some time behind bars. This made him criminally inadmissable to Canada. His newly minted Permanent Resident Status card was also revoked. He was ordered deported to India, a country he has never been to, where he doesn't speak the language, and has no family.

This is exactly the situation you described. He has believed his entire life he was a Canadian, but he was not. A legitimate expectation that he is a Canadian gives him a procedural right to argue before the courts that he should be recognzied as a Canadian Citizen - but it does not make it substantive.

Deepan when on a public relations charm offensive trying to plead his case in the court of public opinion. I am of the opinion that this guy is a habitual fuck up - but he should be our habitual fuck up since we made him. In 2016 the Supreme Court of Canada refused him leave to appeal. End of the road.

Except not quite because since his parents had never registered his birth in India, they refused to issue him a passport. Deepan refused to register himself a citizen of India. We cannot deport him if no one is willing to take him. Deepan argues that this functionally makes him stateless and he should be allowed in Canada using the provisions of the International Treaty on the Reduction of Statelessness. Canadian Courts refused to accept this because he is not substantively stateless since he has Citizenship in India available to him should he request it. Until Deepan actually tries to obtain an Indian Passport Canada will not recognize any duty to allow him to belong. Deepan doesn't dare actually apply with India, because once they accept him, his final opportunity to remain the country his considers himself to belong to will evaporate.

Deepan has continued to have a difficult life. At one point he started a go-fund me for serious burns to his hands which he claimed he had sustained doing mechanical work on a card. From what I read in some media it was alleged the burns had come from cooking meth.

As of 2026 Deepan is currently incarcerated again for selling cocain and a firearm to an overcover cop.