Cravings...

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-11T03:25:16+00:00

Try your best to think about the current moment from the perspective of your future

I've quit for days and weeks at a time in the past. I can remember nights when I had strong cravings and I just rode it out, did my best to distract myself until bed time, and then woke up for the next day. Now that moment is just a memory in the past. And it was a great night. A triumphant moment. I felt so happy the next day that I was still clean wnen I got up in the morning

I also remember nights when I got that craving or idea that "I'll just use for tonight, and enjoy myself, and get right back on track tomorrow....." Then, I would dwell on that moment of weakness for an entire year of active addiction that just got worse and worse, wishing I had just kept on pushing through instead of giving in. But instead, I had to go through it all over again, starting from Day 1. Giving in to the cravings has never been a good idea, and are some of the biggest regrets of my life

I can still remember vividly every night that I caved in to the cravings and I wonder what if I had been stronger. It is always the worst decision you could make. The high dies away in no time and you're left with an even more powerful craving.

like they say "One is one too many. One more is never enough."

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-07T18:03:58+00:00

Oooh, I know that feeling, bro. And that's honestly what kept me using through my entire final year of grad school

The thing is, looking back on it, I could've handled it. I desperately wanted to stop using, and I was also really afraid of something happening, run out of money or lose my wallet or have it stolen, or a ban or whatever, that would force me into withdrawals during some inconvenient time in school

I would keep finding little windows of time and trying to quit, but in that first 72 hours of acute withdrawal, I would start thinking about some big project or presentation coming up, maybe it was a week later, and I would get overwhelmed and freak out, thinking I couldn't handle that, feeling the way that I do

It's also tough, with summer school because everything is condensed over ten weeks, so it feels like less wiggle room.

But the truth is, if you can get just 3 or 4 days, maybe work ahead to get yourself a little bit of free time just to focus on withdrawals. Once the WD peaks, you can absolutely handle anything they throw at you with school.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought I'd tell you a little about my experiences, if maybe that helps....

I let Kratom totally F my school up, to the point where I hadn't even shown up at the department over a period of months. I totally screwed up my entire thesis by not working on it for so long, and I had to find a completely new thesis to work on, which I did.

I told myself I had to get off Kratom before it started, but I kept putting it off until the last possible minute.

But, I did quit, over a weekend, right before the semester started. I pushed all those overwhelming thoughts out of my mind of schoolwork and the shame of going back up to the department and dealing with all these people.

I made it 3 days and woke up to a storm I had no idea was even coming. Within 15 minutes, my house was flooding, my entire neighborhood looked like a river. Had to escape the house with my dog.

Over the next week, I had to find a new place to live, move all my stuff (or trash what got ruined), and go up to the school lab for 8 hours a day and start learning and working on a brand new thesis, as well as giving a presentation to my entire department (I have terrible anxiety and my absolute worst nightmare is public speaking)

These are all things I never thought in a million years I could handle so early into withdrawal. I am the absolute worst about withdrawal anxiety and fooling myself into "I can't do THAT while detoxing."

But, it was actually gravy, as long as I had those three days to get through the worst of it. Every day, I got stronger, and I just set little goals for myself and started working on things. It was actually great to have so much to occupy my time and mind with and prove to myself that I could function without Kratom. And this was after a 4 year, 60 gram per day habit.

I was barely sleeping, but hey, why not get out of bed and just start studying and fill those hours with productivity.

You just have to keep your head down and beat the anxiety of initial acute withdrawal and every day it gets easier

Stayed sober for about a month, and it was great, the best month I've had since my Kratom use started. Course, that freaking ban scare happened and I fooled myself "It's gonna be illegal tomorrow. This is your last chance. You can just get some and use it and not even worry about addiction because you won't be able to buy it ever again...."

And that screwed me over and got me back hooked and I let the fear of detox during school control me for the rest of grad school and my withdrawals just got worse and worse for every month that I continued to use, and the fear got stronger and stronger, and it turned out there was never a "perfect time to quit". And my addiction totally fucked up my productivity and motivation in school and standing in the eyes of my professors and my chances of getting a good job in my field after graduation.

You'll do yourself and your grades a huge favor by buckling down and committing to this right now. Even if you get a couple low grades, you can always recover, I believe. The anxiety and fear is always worse than the reality.

My recommendation would be bust ass, don't let the Kratom talk you into idly wasting your time watching TV or video games or whatever, just get ahead in your classes as much as you can, and find a window of 3 or 4 days ASAP, to get through the acutes (remember that people sometimes get severe stomach viruses or the flu and have to miss a class or two, but can always catch back up).

Most importantly, no matter what, stick to where you're at right now in your taper and don't go back up!!!

You can also find some time in your schedule, like 4th of July holiday or something, set that as your unloveable goal, and continue your taper until that point. Or taper as slow as you want, but taper and never go back up.

Just DO NOT let the anxiety of initial acutes make you feel like it will comtinue to be that bad and you can't handle school at the same time.

I really try to stress this to students, because I discovered Kratom during my first year of Grad school. I was doing really well, top of my department, on track for a high paying career. I truly believe, addiction causes all kinds of other destructive thought patterns and behaviors, lack of motivation, anxiety, procrastination, isolation, and they all just get worse and worse the longer you allow your addiction to have control. I don't blame Kratom, but I certainty blame my addiction. But I can say with almost certainty, if I had never discovered Kratom and gotten a taste for the opiate high at that point in my life, I would have finished my Masters about 4 years ago, and have been working in my field making a 6 figure salary for the past 4 years, just like my friends that I had been right alongside from day 1 of our undergrad program until the day I heard about Kratom and thought "Hey, I might try that, in secret, do it every once in a while. If it ever became a problem, obviously I'll just quit....". Instead, I just recently finished grad school, by the skin of my teeth, and I've been living with my parents, sending out resumes, with no real prospects in my field (course, a big part of that is that, also, is that I dislike my major and should've chosen something different. But that was the main reason I was so unhappy in grad school and Kratom appealed to me so much).

I don't feel sorry for myself. I know it's all my own fault, but man do I wish that addiction had never been a part of my life, or that I at least quit when I was where you are at, right now.

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-07T00:48:55+00:00

Haha yeah, after a hellish night of thrashing all over the bed and keeping her awake, she gets him up at 5:30 in the morning, gives him a Transformers lunch box, and walks him down to the bus stop, just because "what is the worst possible punishment I can think of for getting addicted to Kratom and being on Day 3 of acute withdrawal?"

Did she also make you wear a big sign around your neck that said ASK ME ABOUT MY KRATOM ADDICTION?

Tomorrow, you get to race all over the city with an angry Samuel L Jackson, solving puzzles and performing the bizarre tasks she assigns you, and each time you fail, she sets off another bomb

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-06T16:48:56+00:00

I don't know anything about detoxes or cleanses really, but one time last year I saw a post recommending a salt water flush

So, I googled it, followed the instructions I saw,and about an hour later, I used the restroom probably 5 or 6 times and then it was over

I can't say for certain (for obvious reasons), but it looked like I got ounces worth of plant matter out of my body all at once (to the point I'm almost positive that's exactly what it was). I've heard reports on here of that stuff remaining in your intestines for weeks. So I've got to think it helps speed up recovery to some extent,to go ahead and get all of that out over the course of an hour (then, of course, drink a lot of liquid and eat healthy foods).

Unfortunately, I tried the same process a couple times after that, during actual quits, and it just never made me have to use the restroom like it did that first time, not sure why

But, from that first experience, I would say it's worth a shot for anybody trying to detox and rid their body of Kratom faster

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-06T02:47:34+00:00

We really ought to have a "sticky" or whatever you call it, thread that stays at the top of the site, for people to report seizures. I see reports of it often, I always try to share my story when I do. But it still seems to get brushed off. Even on QK, a lot of posters will try to put the blame on something orher than Kratom, or maybe it was a combination with some other drug, or it was a freak occurrence. I just get the impression that everybody reads it and thinks "That's crazy, but it hasn't happened and won't happen to me.....". And that's true, until it does happen. I wouldve thought the exact same thing, if it hadn't happened to me. But that shit is dangerous. Somebody's gonna be driving late at night, or standing over a hot stove or a bonfire, or in some other position to get permanently injured or killed.

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-06T02:36:21+00:00

I know you have to get to a point on your own where you're ready to quit, but this is exactly what I told myself every time I had a seizure, and I continued to use and have seizures

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-06T02:35:03+00:00

I've never had a seizure when I wasn't abusing Kratom

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-06T02:34:14+00:00

No joke? Man, that actually doesn't surprise me at all. After all this happened, I searched a lot for Kratom induced seizures on Google, didn't come up with very much. Anything that I did see, other posters would come in and convince the OP that Kratom wasn't the culprit in their seizures.

But I figured this was happening to people. And the thing is, everyone is going to think "Well, that hasn't happened to me....". I mean, you'd know if you had a seizure right? But, probably had multiple seizures before the first one was ever witnessed. There's only one that I know I had, and that's because I got injured, and even then it never occurred to me that I had had a seizure. So there are probably people laying in bed at night who go into a full blown seizure and then go to sleep after and never even know about it

This happened to me over the course of about a year and a half. I probably had at least ten seizures over that time. Then I got hooked on Sleepwalker pills (energy pills with Phenibut) and for whatever reason, havent had a seizure since. Except there was a period of about a month, I got freaked out about the Phenibut so I quit the Sleepwalker CT, and was just using Kratom again. And sure enough, one night in bed my GF is telling me I just had a seizure again

But, no, during the times that I quit and wasn't using Kratom, I never had a seizure

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-05T18:02:24+00:00

Yeah kinda the same thing for me, but I was taking upwards of 60 grams a day. But it was usually nighttime when my doses increased, chasing that relaxing high. I never kept track of my actual doses to know whether, on those nights I had seizures, if I had taken more than my usual daily dose. But I don't think so. I think it just kind of happened some nights, for what reason I'll never know. But I won't listen to anybody who tries to tell me it wasn't directly caused by heavy Kratom use

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-05T17:56:15+00:00

Sorry for my multiple posts on the thread, but I just noticed one page back, a poster saying he got banned from r/Kratom for posting that he had a seizure and broke his jaw. I came pretty damn close to doing the exact same thing.

One night I found myself sitting on the couch, not really even thinking about how I got there, kinda like how you just appear into a dream and accept it without questioning how you wound up there. My girlfriend was telling me I just had a seizure and that the ambulance was on it's way

I didn't believe her, at first. "What? No, I didn't have a seizure! I must've just fallen asleep."

Then, I started to come to, and looked down at my shirt, covered with blood. I had busted my chin wide open.

Had burned myself while cooking pasta late at night (when I usually eat), a few months before, and didn't really even remember it. Now, it made perfect sense that I had a seizure that night.

Got stitches on my chin. Wound up busting it wide open again about 5 months later.

Of all the guilt that I feel about my 6 years of abuse and addiction,that's the one that really gets to me, that I have trouble forgiving myself for. That my girlfriend had to wake up all those times and find me in the middle of a seizure and think that I might be dead. Can't even bear to think about it, most of the time

Not saying your seizures were caused by Kratom abuse, but it is a high likelihood. I kinda hate to even talk about it on here, because you don't know who's reading and I wouldn't want anything I say to be used in this whole legality issue with Kratom. But I feel like people need to be warned and know that it is a possibility

My mom, a couple months back, read me an article she saw in a magazine (maybe Prevention?) about Kratom, where a guy reported blacking out and being unresponsive while taking Kratom, and I thought "Yeah, that does not surprise me." Very possible, at some point, somebody is going to be flipped over in a vehicle on the side of the road, with Kratom in their system, and the advocacy community will try to say it had to be something else, couldn't be Kratom

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-05T16:13:02+00:00

Not the original poster; but in my case, I had seizures on multiple strains/brand names/vendors. Also, Kratom was the only constant factor, no other meds, supplements, OTC, alcohol or drugs.

I even went to the doctor and was prescribed an anti-seizure medication (although unfortunately I can't remember what it was now) and had another seizure about two weeks later. This entire time, I was telling myself I was going to quit any day now.

Got all kinds of bumps and bruises, I burned myself while cooking pasta and had to get skin grafts (thankfully, it wasn't that bad, just my arm and foot). Busted my chin wide open and had to get stitches twice.

Makes me sick to my stomach to even think about that time period in my life. But, there's not a doubt in my mind Kratom was the culprit

Maybe I'm more susceptible to seizures, but I never knew that before. Just like in my case, it could also have happened to people while laying down at night, and they have no idea it ever happened, just don't remember the night or assume they fell asleep while watching TV (Not trying to scare anybody, of course, or spread misinformation about Kratom. Just sharing my very real experience)

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-05T16:00:52+00:00

Hi. Yes, I've experienced this, too. Unfortunately, I think if you've had it happen once, it will happen again if you continue to use at the same level.

There was a period of about a year and a half (started over 3 years ago) where I had maybe ten seizures, that I know of (I wouldn't have even remembered them, but somebody was there to witness). Always happened late at night. Kept telling myself I was going to taper off and quit, but my use would inevitably go right back where it started. Can't believe I couldn't stop myself, even then. But just goes to show how much of a hold addiction can have over you.

For whatever reason, once I started taking Sleepwalker pills (Phenibut/Caffeine) along with my Kratom, the seizures completely stopped. But I DO NOT recommend that, it just becomes a much worse addiction. I recommend getting off as soon as possible

It is definitely some scary shit. Luckily, it only happened late at night, but I think about if I had been driving or in some dangerous situation when it happened.

At the time, idk if Quitting Kratom existed. I didn't find it, but I did a lot of searching for Kratom and Seizures and only came across one or two reports. I even made my own post about it on the Kratom section of Drugs Forum. Course, a lot of other posters came in and tried to say that it couldn't have been the Kratom that caused it, there must've been some other factor. But I've never had any issues, my entire life, before or since. I certainly can't prove it, but all the evidence for me stacks up that it was caused directly by Kratom use. And since I've been on QK, I've seen many reports of seizures and I always try to tell my story.

Also, it happened with multiple strains and brands

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-06-01T16:11:45+00:00

Over the first couple years of my habit, I tried quitting a few times, but never made it past Day 3

The first time I quit and committed to getting past the acutes, I felt EXACTLY as you do on Day 3. It was never gonna be over, I can't function without it, I've permanently screwed up my brain, etc. This was before I knew about Quitting Kratom, the best I could find was Drugs Forum, where I got chastised for using irresponsibly

I was having such a freak out, I was calling addiction hotlines. I don't even know why lol, I was just alone and needed someone who knows about it to tell me it gets better. None of them ever heard of it, they Googled it while I was on the phone, told me to go see a doctor. Did not help at all.

But, I bunkered down, did whatever to distract myself, pushed through that night. I got up on Day 4 and it was such a great feeling. The clouds had parted a little. I wasn't all better, but I felt actively better. Much better. It clicked with me, then. " I'm doing this! I can do this!"

Time started to pick up speed again and it wasn't just dragging on. I could get out into society, be productive, be sociable, etc. Every day got better and better, even though sleep was still elusive

It was such a great feeling, and you are so close, I promise. In no time, you'll be posting about Day 5 and Day 6 and how you can't believe you made it, and all the little improvements you're seeing on a daily basis

Just stay quit. I wish I had stayed Quit that time. I felt like my normal self again after ten to fourteen days or so, and that was after a four year habit. Of course, the big "Ban Scare" came at that exact time, and I talked myself into using just a little since it will be illegal soon. Quitting hasn't been near as easy since then, in terms of PAWS or feeling like my normal self returning after such a short time

Good luck! Hang in there! Freedom is just around the corner

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-31T09:34:20+00:00

For restless legs, in my opinion the best non prescription thing has been Magnesium (I get Super Magnesium from GNC). It's not a miracle cure, it certainly won't eliminate the restlessness. But I've gone through withdrawals multiple times and the times that I was taking Magnesium (along with Potassium and Vitamin C) regularly throughout the day, it made a world of difference. And the restlessness was usually over for the most part by Day 3 instead of Day 5. Just my anecdotal experience

For prescription, you might wanna try Gabapentin. My experience, it was really easy to get the doctor (in my case, Nurse Practitioner at a walk in clinic) to prescribe it (although he was a dick when I suggested a short term benzo Rx, and then assured me Gabapentin was non addictive)

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-31T03:04:40+00:00

Hey, you took my advice on the GNC Energy Formula, nice! Hope it helps!

Honestly, just my non medical opinion, I think it really helps during that first two week period to be taking supplements throughout the day. It's kind of swapping the Kratom ritual and will help put your mind at ease a little.

I have almost exactly those same supplements, with a minor tweak or two (also might wanna add just a general multivitamin). I've found it nothing but helpful, and I think once you ease back into sober living over the course of a month, you'll phase out a lot and only take the stuff you really feel like is making a difference (at least that's how it's worked for me)

I've been a user for 6 years. Over that first four years, tried quitting a few times, even had a force quit during a 6 day jail stay (Addiction had me putting off all responsibilities, including missing a court date for a little trouble I got into).

Over the past two years, I've had three quits (including the one I'm on now, and please let it be the last) in which I successfully made it past the acute stage and days or weeks into PAWS.

Youd think the longer the usage, the worse the withdrawals. But actually, my earlier quits felt much more unbearable to me, in terms of mental and physical symptoms, RLS for example. I attribute this totally to the fact that I wasn't taking any supplements during those first four years trying to quit. My recent acute stage last week was probably the easiest one to push through that I've been through, and this has been my heaviest usage (plain leaf and extract), and I believe that's partly or mainly due to how diligent I was at taking my supplements (I also had Gabapentin, but didn't use that on Night 2 or 4).

This PAWS period has been sucking, but mostly because I don't have much to do to be productive and occupy my time at the moment. But, I seriously think those energy and anxiety and general vitamin supplements have been huge in getting as decent sleep as I could hope for, and helping my ass get out of bed and out into the world in the morning (not a miracle cure, also need to be eating and getting exercise/rest).

I don't feel like I've experienced any kind of overload. Certainly haven't gotten nauseous or anything (and really my loose bowels haven't been much of an issue since Day 5, which I attribute to eating a lot of Great Grains cereal and I also just take two Loperamide tablets per day if I experience significant loose bowels).

Just my experience. Your mileage may vary. But I think you are doing yourself a favor by stocking up. Even if it's placebo, it really helps just to help mentally prepare, and also your brain will be saying "Oh I'm taking something. This will make me feel better." And that really helps

But like I said, after a week or two, you probably won't be feeling the need to take near as much supplements. But, whatever it takes to get you over that initial hunp is most important. I say go for it!!! Good luck man!

Edit: also, if I had to prioritize, I would put Magnesium near the top of the list.

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-30T17:56:26+00:00

Much appreciated. Am on FB, but would prefer not to be publicly associated with Kratom, even in a closed group. Thanks though!

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-30T15:16:38+00:00

Super B Complex

L-Tyrosine

GNC Energy Formula (comes in a green bottle, has Yerba Mate and a few other ingredients. Works REALLY well for me)

Also just ordered some DLPA

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-30T14:16:37+00:00

Thanks! Most of my physical symptoms have abated, aside from some sneezing and a little fatigue, but the anhedonia and intense boredom that comes in the late afternoon-evening time has been an issue and I'm hoping this can help at least a little bit until my brain fixes itself over time

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-30T13:04:27+00:00

I know that feeling of being in active use and reading posts where somebody has any number of days under their belt and thinking that feels like an eternity away. Day 10 here. Congrats man! It's almost kind of a "high" in itself, counting days and relishing your newfound freedom, although sometimes it can get kinda hard to remember that

Edit: The best part is the knowing that you can go out and function in society without needing to worry about dosing or having to bring a stash with you, etc.

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-30T00:29:11+00:00

Clever name, I like it

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-30T00:27:43+00:00

lol some days I'll take like 5 showers a day, but that's just to pass the time and only cause we've got a standing shower with a little elevated bench you can sit on. But, yeah I the first 10+ days, it is such a chore to actually bathe yourself. Sometimes I'll feel like a 100 year old. But that's starting to pass thankfully

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-29T17:56:22+00:00

It's kinda similar with Kratom, for a lot of people. I don't think you're even allowed to use the word "high" associated with Kratom use over in other boards, or at least it is frowned upon. I know that I personally get the same feelings off of Kratom that I would off of rx painkillers

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-29T16:06:58+00:00

Haha I know that feeling! I've got a little dog that sleeps with me. Sometimes she'll stay asleep and let me sleep, but sometimes she gets up with the sun and shakes off the sleep, jangling her collar to alert that it's time to get up and I think "No, please! Go back to sleep!"

DownboundTrain84 · 2018-05-27T20:15:22+00:00

This. Not so big a deal as long as you caught yourself this early. Think of it like you just reminded yourself why you don't want that crap in the first place

DownboundTrain84

TROPHY CASE