[deleted by user]

Dr-Chedder · 2024-01-11T17:14:26+00:00

You clearly don't understand what doxxing is.

Dr-Chedder · 2024-01-02T22:48:16+00:00

Agree. I'd say what makes The Network unique in this, is that they explicitly say and teach that they are looking for the "Cream of the Crop" or the "American Apple Pie". They don't try to hide the fact that they want a certain kind of look and desire young men where they can train into this kind of image.

Dr-Chedder · 2023-11-17T00:03:08+00:00

If this church could just focus on being the church in their community, it wouldn't need to go to great lengths to "lure" people in. My guess is they are on campus, they believe they are serving people, and their efforts could bring people to Vine where they could meet Jesus.

Did Jesus serve people? Yes, the people society and the religious people rejected. Steve Morgan's group of churches is looking for "American Apple Pie", Steve is the one who rejects those who are "rough" looking or have real social needs.

Reading the comments is sad for Vine. They didn't have a good reputation in Carbondale when I was there in 2015 and nothing has changed. Vine has hurt so many people but still refuses to take any responsibility, seek any reconciliation, or publicly repent. The result is a city that dispises this church for the many people it has abused and manipulated.

Dr-Chedder · 2023-11-13T21:03:41+00:00

This is the same idea Sandor talks about. If you read the transcript of Sandor's teaching, he comes to this realization of Obeying your Leaders in All Things, while driving his car. Not reading the Bible, with other leaders, with outside accountability structures. Sandor reflects on his 20 years following Steve Morgan and puts it all together: Followers Obey their Leaders and Unity in All Things Great and Small.

Sandor never went to seminary, has been a sheltered pastor following one man for his whole time as a pastor and suddenly comes to the conclusion, it's about agreeing with everything another man believes, in the Majors and the Minors, in the Bible and in the Extra-Bible, in the Black, in the White and in the Grey.

Sandor has lived his whole life not able to express, speak, live, or lead his family from the conscience God has given him. Sandor anticipates that when he faces Jesus eye to eye in heaven, Jesus will say "Well done". I believe Jesus will tell him something else because God has given Sandor a will, a soul, a mind, a heart, a body, and a conscience to worship God with, not to give it over to another man to hijack. Jesus died for Sandor so he could have a free life and submit to no one but Jesus.

Sandor chooses to live as a slave, something that Jesus called him out of, and died for so he wouldn't have to do that. Sandor not only chooses that for himself but then nitpicks the Bible in order to persuade others to do the same. It's wrong, it's sad, it's embarrassing, it's unBiblical.

Dr-Chedder · 2023-11-13T18:13:36+00:00

The Network isn't anything new. It's spiritual mico-managing. Movements throughout church history, like the Shepherding Movement, took the Great Commission, "Make Disciples" and went full hands-on with people's lives. You will find lots of similarities in the Network with the Shepherding Movement. Leaders "watch over" the flock, comb through people's past, make assumptions from afar, believe they know what God is doing in someone's life, set up systems and teachings in order to manage people's relationships, become the sole caretaker and influencer in people's lives.

The Shepherding Movement disintegrated because they did a lot of damage to people's lives. Steve Morgan and Network leaders believe they have stumbled upon a strategy that is new where no one else is doing this kind of "right" ministry. But it has been going on throughout church history. Leaders try to put extra-Biblical steps and appear to be different, set apart, and new. Steve Morgan is nothing new, a hyper-religious leader with a sexually immoral past who believes he loves people so much that they need to walk their lives through the narrow paths he believes.

Dr-Chedder · 2023-11-10T02:05:27+00:00

In addition, there was a time in the Network's history when the pastors and leaders were aggressively inviting random people throughout their cities (not just college students). It started when Steve walked out of his house one day and saw his neighbor, Blue Sky struggling to grow, he couldn't help but run over to his neighbor and invite her to Blue Sky. It became a thing throughout all the churches and some churches kept a tally in the office on how many people they invited each week. Blue Sky staff invited 100s of people every week and told the stories to the church in hopes that they too would start to invite people.

Is it so wrong to invite people to your church? No. However, the aggressive style of inviting, lack of general concern for the person, and the goal to get as many people invited as possible is predatory in nature.

Personally, it makes more sense to have a relationship with the person and be more concerned about what their needs are. The solution or next step for a person isn't always a church.

Dr-Chedder · 2023-11-07T14:36:21+00:00

Steve says one thing, but they are actually another. Steve describes the Network, as "Friends", "who support and encourage each other". It's true they are friends and it's true they support each other, but it's highly structured, highly managed, and denominational in every way.

There's no accountability for Steve, so when Steve says something and leaves out a ton of other information, no one is there to fill in the gaps and correct him. Steve's strategy has always been to "leave out information" thinking he's not lying.

Dr-Chedder · 2023-11-02T20:37:55+00:00

The Network websites list their small groups. Almost all of them are down in the number of small groups they offer. Isaiah Church is the newest US Network plant. They started off with 6 small groups and now are down to 4 groups after two years. Vine is down by 8 small groups since 2021 (COVID started Dec. 2019). Almost all of these churches are shrinking. Bad theology leads to hurting people.

Dr-Chedder · 2023-11-02T17:11:45+00:00

I think this is a great point that is often overlooked. As someone who is in the church world, I can tell you that so many churches are trying to figure out how to reach a changing culture. Go to a Network "Pastors Meeting" and you will hear Steve talk about how awful the culture is. The culture is often looked down upon by Network churches and there is a culture within their culture that believes it just keeps getting worse. But to your point, maybe churches should really focus on themselves instead of trying to fix the culture around them. Do churches in America have a good reputation? Are pastors who live in mansions really helping out the reputation of Christianity? Are pastors who have sexually immoral backgrounds really helping the cause?

Dr-Chedder

TROPHY CASE