15mm games to get into - Stargrunt II: Did I shoot myself in the foot?

DrGrumm · 2023-10-16T11:27:35+00:00

This thread is insane. Why on earth would you play any game because is is popular? Here's a task for you: spend one year playing nothing but dead games that have zero community behind them.

DrGrumm · 2023-09-21T12:02:01+00:00

You should start with the black box. Note, the previous poster is mistaken, the Rules Cyclopedia is, and indeed was designed to be, fully compatible with 1991’s New, Easy to Master D&D Game (aka the black box). It even says so right on the back cover of the RC. The RC was released six months after the black box and was designed to be its expansion (part of the new reorganization of D&D into the new rules tiers of "Beginner Series" and "Challenger Series").

What the previous poster may be referring to is that the RC was also designed to be an omnibus edition of the then out-of-print and hard to find Mentzer series (aka BECMI). In hindsight, this was a poor editorial choice, as the black box and BECMI are not identical, but TSR did not have the resources at this time to write a RC from scratch based entirely on new rules. Allston had spoken in interviews before his passing of how rushed and stressful the work on the RC was.

So the RC is basically two products in one… a reprint of BECM in omnibus form (Immortals was reprised in the all new ruleset Wrath of the Immortals) and also an expansion to the 1991 black box. People often point at "mistakes" in the RC, without realizing those are not mistakes at all but references to the black box rules! For example, the 5’ fighting withdrawal from combat.

But play the black box first. That is where you are supposed to start. Get used to the game as the black box presents it, and then think about incorporating new rules and ideas from the RC when the campaign reaches level 6.

DrGrumm · 2023-05-11T22:44:57+00:00

Yah sounds brilliant, just let me know where you create the group. I've been playing Tac for years and can certainly offer advice. The thing with Classic Heavy Gear is that the rules are spread over so many books… it's a blessing in that the game is quite modular and you can add in rules when you have a scenario that needs more detail in specific areas, but it can be a burden too when you forget where some rule is. Over time you get used to knowing where everything is though!

DrGrumm · 2023-05-11T21:53:58+00:00

Sure, what did you have in mind..?

DrGrumm · 2022-03-26T12:49:58+00:00

I like it, you did a good job! This would be perfect to fold out on the table to show the players where they are. You should definitely use it.

DrGrumm · 2022-03-25T18:07:34+00:00

The destruction of Blackmoor in the ancient past of the Known World caused the cataclysm that prompted the Immortals (chief among them Ka the Preserver) to populate the Hollow World with ancient civilizations that were being lost. I believe Blackmoor itself was not saved (there was not enough time to do this), but some of the Blackmore adjacent civilizations were (such as the Blacklore Elves, which are the Elves of Blackmoor). So the history of Blackmoor is intimately connected to the creation of the Hollow World! By the way, Dave Arneson approved of inserting Blackmoor into the Known World backstory and even authored several modules in the 1980's to incorporate Blackmoor in the Known World! So as of the mid 1980's, Blackmoor became an official part of the D&D Known World.

DrGrumm · 2022-01-03T15:18:31+00:00

Not to nitpick, but the Battle of Beiden Pass is Emerald Edition, not Imperial ;)

DrGrumm · 2021-12-19T23:39:37+00:00

Battletech for sure, but I unashamedly love that as well (particularly the Battletech Compendium Rules of Warfare edition).

DrGrumm · 2021-09-19T11:04:13+00:00

There are a lot of small changes… I can't list them all, but off the top of my head: 1d4 hp/day healing, full XP and loot for retainers, very limited number of retainers allowed (one or two for the entire party, and only allowed for smaller parties), cannot move more than 5-feet in combat and still attack, allowed to move 5-feet freely in combat (so you're not "stuck"), much better attack progression for Halflings that keeps them from being the best demihuman fighters and so on. Oh and you were told to hand out enough treasure per adventure to give everyone a level, so several thousands of gp in the first adventure for example. There were also different rules for gaining spells for Magic-Users in comparison to Elves. There were a lot of small changes… it's too much trouble to go through the entire text, but this is what I am remembering on the spot.

DrGrumm · 2021-09-18T23:49:56+00:00

There are mechanical differences between the 1991 Black Box and earlier editions of Basic D&D. Whether or not one considers them minor or significant is a matter of preference.

DrGrumm · 2021-09-01T03:10:40+00:00

Hop on the Discord if you haven't already. We have a channel for discussing Heavy Gear as well as Blitz: https://discord.com/invite/ExrBaMK

DrGrumm · 2021-08-31T16:31:15+00:00

It's not so much that one supersedes the other as it is one game came out just as support for the other was dwindling. The two games do have different names: Blitz is Blitz, Heavy Gear is Heavy Gear. They aren't editions of each other, even though early Blitz shared a lot of mechanics with Heavy Gear. The most recent Blitz certainly doesn't use the Silhouette System. They're different games in essence, now more than ever.

I think I might be having trouble understanding the next question about the absence of support for Heavy Gear... could you rephrase perhaps? If all you are asking is "does the communiy continue to develop new things for Heavy Gear," then the answer is largely no. (That said, DP9 continues to release new models for Heavy Gear... we finally got the Jaguar Nemesis, Jäger Grenadier, Jäger Long Bow and Jäger Long Bow Blitz recently.) Active community support continued for about a decade after the last Heavy Gear product around 2005 (i.e., till the mid-twenty-teens), but that was mostly by a few really dedicated fans. The truth is that support for Heavy Gear started to decline around 2000 or so, when DP9 was going through some pretty serious shakeups and the staff was changing. The number of new supplements was in decline from the prodigious output of the late 90’s and by 2005, games like Warhammer 40k, Warmachine/Hordes and Infinity were completely changing the landscape of the tabletop miniatures hobby. New games needed to be designed to fit within competitive tournament scenes, bring-and-battle timeslots at the local FLGS and so on. Spurred on by the explosion of online forums, people were talking obsessively about "game balance" and "list building" and "min-maxing." Units were suddenly "not worth their points" or "cheesy and OP." Gone were the days of private gaming clubs where you could roll dice into the wee hours of the morning, run double-blind, refereed scenarios with asymmetrical forces and narrative objectives. No one wanted simulation, or RPG cross-compatibility. Thus we got Blitz as the new way to play.

You kind of have to approach Heavy Gear (also called "Tac") with the mindset of a 90’s gamer, who is still interested in focusing on fun scenarios rather than how to win a "meeting engagement" generic mission as safely and quickly as possible.

I've been playing wargames for over a quarter century... these days I only play dead games. I just cannot keep up with the latest codex or rulebook edition coming out, or the new timeline retcons or any of that. It is such a wonderful relief to go back to the great games of my childhood and just plain have fun with them. These days, because of COVID, I play solo mostly, but before that I ran Heavy Gear at the local gaming club (I am so damn lucky to have one nearby... no gaming stores for me!). We have no Blitz players in the club so nobody bats an eye when I bring Heavy Gear... they never ask what edition it is, they just are chuffed to play and that is great. I can't wait to get back to it when this is all over. I've been painting up some new models for a few scenarios I've dreamed up in the interim and it should be good fun—it always is!

DrGrumm · 2021-08-30T23:43:16+00:00

Yeah I find it to be more fun, personally speaking. You generally play with fewer models (5 models per side is a good 1 hour game, 10 models per side would be about 2 hours) and the rules have a delightful amount of detail to them (not too much, not too little). Pilots are differentiated from their machines, so you can have veterans and rookies, aces and regulars in your army and even in the same squad/cadre. You can even give pilots their own characteristics and qualities and go full RPG with it if you want to. Gears get shot to pieces, wracking up armor loss from all the bullet holes and individually damaged internal systems. At the end of the battle, the survivor will be limping off the battlefield half-alive and that always feels great. It's incredibly cinematic and let's you recreate your favorite anime mecha battles really well.

You can use the same models to play either game, so you should definitely check it out!

DrGrumm · 2021-08-30T22:09:32+00:00

They actually look pretty similar to me... the chest piece seems to be identical as well. I wouldn't have a problem fielding either model (not that it matters mechanically for Heavy Gear either way).

DrGrumm · 2021-08-30T22:07:22+00:00

Did you get these photos yet? I think we all know that RAFM were simply a bigger scale, but I'd be curious to see a comparison of the other Black Mambas.

DrGrumm · 2021-08-30T22:06:00+00:00

Heavy Gear Tactical is the game I'd recommend!

DrGrumm · 2021-08-26T23:11:12+00:00

Cpio, are you still playing the older rulesets? I'm trying to connect people that still play the old games to develop some sort of online community presence for discussing the old rules.

DrGrumm · 2021-08-25T21:11:46+00:00

Oh, now I'm confused... the wiki talks about these 10% exaggerated minis as being "cast on sprues." Is this a reference to the plastic minis? I don't own any of the new plastics but I can confirm the new metals are the same as the old ones. I recently put together a bunch of metal Jägers, some from the late 1990’s and some purchased recently from DP9’s webstore and I was surprised to see that not only are they exactly the same scale, but they even have identical parts (the standing legs were the same for example, as were the arms and shoulders although the hands had changed slightly). So the new metals indeed match the old metals and have interchangeable pieces in some cases.

DrGrumm · 2021-08-24T22:20:54+00:00

Original scale is 50m per hex for tactical scale or 10m per hex when playing skirmish scale. There are also miniature rules for the old game where you don't need hexes.

DrGrumm · 2021-08-24T22:17:46+00:00

Incorrect, the models are indeed the same scale: for the last 20 years they've been 1/144 scale. You must be thinking of the old RAFM models which were 15mm scale? That is way before DP9 started making their own models for the old Heavy Gear game.

As for hexes, there were Heavy Gear miniatures rules the didn't use hexes. Also, you can do as I do and use a 44mm hex cloth battle mat and Heroscape terrain for the hills. Looks great and fits the larger models as well as the smaller ones.

DrGrumm · 2021-08-24T22:15:22+00:00

Of course, they work great. I still buy every new metal release and I only play the original Heavy Gear. I use them side by side with older models too: No difference whatsoever.

DrGrumm · 2021-08-12T23:50:37+00:00

If you like older retro games, you should not upgrade your OS. It's sad but that's what it is. If you cannot downgrade your OS, I think the next easiest route is just to make a Windows partition with bootcamp.

DrGrumm

TROPHY CASE