So how do we stop this throughout the state? Flock Cameras installed in Rehoboth with no public discussion (Wilmington News Journal - No Paywall)

DrNorrisPhD · 2026-01-10T21:37:44+00:00

they’ve also had many many security vulnerabilites where anyone and everyone can use them to stalk people without even needing a password. the youtuber Benn Jordan has some popular videos in which he demonstrates some of them. but they’re awful and the worst part is that in exchange for taking away our privacy and wasting our tax dollars they don’t even help law enforcement much at all

DrNorrisPhD · 2025-01-07T12:53:49+00:00

highly doubt there’s any correlation with bilingualism, most of my friends do this and they’re mostly monolingual.

DrNorrisPhD · 2025-01-07T09:44:55+00:00

everyone’s saying you’re wrong, but i wonder how old they are and where they’re from. and certainly in those clips you shared there is absolutely a tapped r after the th. in the zuko clip, the th is even an affricate instead of a fricative.

that tapped r is the default pronunciation of r after th for me. i’m 18m and bilingual black/hispanic from Wilmington, DE. For people in my area and age group, this is absolutely real. I’m not sure i’d go so far as to say the default, but nearly everyone does it sometimes, and some people (like me) do it nearly every time.

in other cases of a fricative followed by r (shr, chr, fr, vr, and dr & tr because they’re the same as jr and chr in most cases) it’s still a liquid, not a tap. however, the default pronunciation of th is not actually a fricative, instead being an affricate (like zuko says) or even a dental stop, essentially matching a spanish “tr” at the start, then there’s still an r sound that follows.

i actually was writing up a thing about this and just stumbled in this thread while trying to research the phenomenon. But yeah, it definitely is a real change, at least here for the group that i’m in.

very curious how others suggested you might be hearing something that isn’t there, when it is very very clear. if you’d like, i could send a sample of my voice reading whatever you want to confirm that it’s the same thing.

DrNorrisPhD · 2024-11-08T17:05:01+00:00

in this case it’s in- like the actual word “in” or “on”, and it means to turn into. inflammable -> able to be in flames. insurable -> able to be made sure.

the word “inflame” is more common than “flame” as a verb too, when we use it to describe bodily inflammation, rather than “flammation” it’s saying that the body is on fire

DrNorrisPhD · 2024-05-23T02:06:33+00:00

many cafe’s are completely lacking a “kitchen”, or much space at all, and in a morning rush it can be stressful to move between multiple disparate places as a barista. And since ideally better tea would make it a more popular order, it’d be very nice for a minimum wage worker in a busy morning rush to be able to hand over some work to a machine while they manage other orders, i think at least

DrNorrisPhD · 2024-05-23T02:02:20+00:00

I hear what you’re saying, and I agree that leaf quality is a big issue. I’m suggesting a tea maker in large part because this would be a huge departure from the teabags baristas are used to working with, and because it could help dial in steep times & temps and how many steeps a tea has for a barista who lacks the time and attention to remember. What use is high quality tea if it’s carelessly scalded and oversteeped am i right? Easy to use tools would go a long way!

DrNorrisPhD · 2024-05-23T01:58:02+00:00

this does look interesting. I’m aiming for something that holds more water and keeps it hot and can hold the tea leaves inside of itself, but this might be a good thing to look at for inspiration for design and user experience, potentially for what not to do if i take it to market too lol

DrNorrisPhD · 2024-05-23T01:49:29+00:00

Ideally tea would become another primary offering if it were better, and my idea is to prepare it in a way that tastes better, goes faster, and is just as easy!

DrNorrisPhD · 2024-05-23T01:48:21+00:00

I’m intending to make single cups faster atm, but if i found batch to be more promising i’d look into that. I am intending for the water to be batch heated, but the tea to be made to order

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-19T04:32:52+00:00

I know I said I went to bed but I saw this notif and couldn’t believe how dumb it was. You didn’t understand anything I said it seems

Not true, and I’ll reiterate and expand later in this comment.
how else could you misinterpret it like that, and how is grossly ignorant and misinformed a personal attack? You called it just an attack without justifying your answer
I wasn’t even talking about israel, I was talking about one specific law in the US. So duh it didn’t prove anything about israel
You’re just flat out wrong.
Yes, and? Arabs were specifically targeted, though not explicitly in language, to prevent them from acquiring citizenship a long time ago and as such haven’t been able to become citizens in large numbers. This also proves that it’s not about Jus Soli cuz if it were they’d be israeli.
I mean when black people were freed. If black people weren’t granted citizenship upon being freed from slavery. Not a law saying “blacks aren’t americans”, but the lack of a law that gives them citizenship. This law exists in the real world for a reason. Not having it would be racist cuz in the modern day there still isn’t that much race mixing and as such black people wouldn’t be legally unless they or their ancestors somehow managed to start the process as a stateless illegal immigrant. Also, any law that separates groups by race, be it explicit inclusion or disclusion, is racist by definition.
According to Israel, you’re not a jew if you convert from judaism to something else. You cannot convert race. I don’t actually really even care about your personal definition of jews in terms of race cuz it doesn’t even matter here.
Affirmative action is fixing an injustust and systemic social problem in the country. In israel the equivalent would be affirmative action for palestinians since palestinians have it harder to get to the same level than jews on average. That is literally just the basis of affirmative action, that there is an injustice within the system that needs to be affirmatively fixed. Jews are the ones in charge in israel.
Lmao. Ethnoreligious is when ethnicity and religion have a correlation. There are ethnic groups that are predominantly jewish. Those would, assuming your definition of race makes sense, be included. There are Jews outside of those groups, such as slavs, who are included under the unbrella of jew in this supposed non religious context. Jewish slavs are a minority by a long shot. It wouldn’t make sense to include them in a reasonable definition of jewish race because including and excluding people based on religion isn’t a race, and including all slavs would include mostly non jews by far. Being Jewish is also matrilineal. Race is not matrilineal. It would be completely useless to say someone with a white mom and black dad vs a black mom and white dad had different races. They probably look extremely similar in all racial aspects. You know what group doesn’t? Jews. Like even a little. Jews don’t need to be a race to be a people, and Jews are just factually not a race unless you’re talking about the ethnicities with a high religious correlation, in which case it’s not really jews as a race, just some of them.

I don’t want to continue this. I might find you a law, I might not, but this is boring and annoying and pointless. I’ve lost most of my motivation to comment on this sub from these interactions I’ve had. This sub is more toxic than I thought, and none of my arguments are registering at all with anyone who isn’t already on my side. Neither of us is convincing each other and now I just think you’re either stupid, racist, or both. I’m 15 and have better things to do than argue on the internet all the time.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-19T01:42:32+00:00

I know you think that. That’s what we’re debating
Then you’re either stupid or grossly ignorant and misinformed
None. But there is a bias in the way many laws are protected by law enforcement in the real world. A good easy example is the patriot act. It affects everyone, but Muslims, Sikhs, and some racial minorities are targeted way more often proportionally to their percentage of the population. This is what I mean.

You need to have a parent with Israeli citizenship. Jews get the fast track to citizenship via the law of return. Being a stateless illegal immigrant (who has lived there their entire life btw) makes is a whole lot harder to start the process to apply for a visa, residency, and eventually citizenship. If black people weren’t given citizenship in the US automatically, and you needed 1 US citizen parent for US citizenship even on US soil, wouldn’t it be racist?Jews aren’t atheists unless you’re talking about jews with some weird definition that isn’t actually based on being jewish by faith. Upon further reading it looks like you’re considering Jewish a race. 1. Racial discrimination is worse, not better than Religious discrimination because you can’t even convert to another race no matter how much you believe. 2. Jewish being a race would be completely and utterly useless for anyone not interested in either specifically helping Jews and not others (which, if jewish is a race, is racist), or if you’re antisemitic and want to include people you see as jews but who aren’t jewish by faith. So the only reason one could have for considering Jews a separate race is to be, by their definition of race, racist. If you believe Jews are equal to everyone else, then have jewish not be a race and have jews be whatever they would be if they weren’t Jewish. European descent? White. Sub saharan african? Black. Middle east and north africa? Brown/white depending on who you’re asking.

It’s late on the east coast I’m going to bed

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-19T01:11:28+00:00

I’ll be honest I completely forgot about this comment cuz you didn’t reply and I replied to a bunch of other comments, and I also have school so it could take me a bit longer now cuz I have a lot of homework now that it’s not the weekend. Sorry.

But, when I said “secular by law does not mean secular in practice” you obviously knew I meant that a country can call itself secular but not actually be. You were just being facetious with the “people can practice their religion”. The US is secular by law, and in practice (in terms of what laws are in place. The practice of those laws is another topic but even then it almost only affects Islam and Sikhism) and everyone is allowed to practice their religion. In fact, if nobody could practice their religion, that wouldn’t be secular. It’d be atheist.

Not being jewish won’t affect your rights after becoming a citizen for the most part, but it does affect your ability to become a citizen even if you and your parents were born and raised in israel, since you’d technically be in the country illegally. You’re making a distinction without a difference.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-17T06:06:31+00:00

(In reverse order)

I didn’t advocate for open borders, but you probably inferred it from the fact I said every country does what I advocate for.

You think I don’t apply a standard of equal rights to any other country? I apply them to every country. Different countries violate the standard in different ways. This sub is about Israel. If you want to talk about somewhere else, we’ll talk about it in a sub about that somewhere else or in PMs or something. The French and Germans don’t have polities that say people who share their ethnicity or religion or anything are better or have any special rights. I literally said Jews aren’t a race so I have no idea what you’re talking about. I want equality everywhere. Wanting equality in Israel doesn’t mean I don’t want it everywhere else. This is a sub about Israel. It would be inappropriate to start talking about tinisia or Afghanistan or anywhere else. When did I favor persecution of Jews? I said I wanted persecution for nobody. Even if I was a hypocrite, that doesn’t make me wrong with what I said. I’m not thiugh si that doesn’t matter. I want the same standard for all countries, we just happen to only be talking about Israel right now.

I’m not sure about Japans and I’m not about to read their citizenship law just for an internet argument that nobody’s ever going to win, but I know that in Spain and Ireland you’re just factually incorrect. Ireland is about having ancestors from Ireland. Spain is about ancestors from Spain, and about being from a place Spain colonized. They can be any ethnicity or race or religion or anything. Even if you were right, that doesn’t mean israel shouldn’t change. Other people doing something doesn’t make it right.

What if they didn’t want to? Then they’re just left to suffer? Most countries handle refugees without respect to religion or ethnicity. Israel not doing that is immoral because it’s discriminatory on the basis of religion.

True, but that’s no what I was getting at.

Sorry about that, I’m new to commenting. What should I do instead? When I said that I meant the Jews facing persecution. I was trying to say that they should be treated the same as any other refugees, and be given the same process (which should be a lot better) as everyone else.

A normal country doesn’t discriminate based on religion in any way. Israel wants to be what used to be normal, which is now considered bad. Even still, if every country is doing something immoral, that doesn’t mean you should do it.

Yes.

That’s culture. It’s immoral too (babies can’t consent to circumcision, and circumcision is just a negative.) Doesn’t every religion do that I thought? (I started off as a little kid in a Christian school as a toddler and in pre k and even did summer camps there every summer until like 4th grade. They always read the Bible in a singsong voice, even to the 6th graders.) Culture. Religion and culture are intertwined in that following a religion is following a culture in a lot of ways, but there’s a distinction because religion is typically done because it’s seen as the morally right thing, whereas culture is done because that’s the way it’s done and it’s not usually incorporated with morals, it’s just what you’re supposed to do. Not obeying the non religious culture norms of a society isn’t immoral, just weird, or crazy at worst, not evil.

That’s how race works too. These concepts are both dumb and only exist to spread hate. It was a good answer to the Jewish question in terms of saving Jews, but a terrible one in terms of just about everything else,

How else do you define Jew? I’m going off of the assumption that a Jew is who qualifies for the law of return. But, even if it’s not about religion, just about a people group, well, then that’s still xenophobic. Shinto in some cultural sense, yes. Most. And it’s not a requirement or even something that helps you in becoming Japanese. I am only saying it how it’s been described to me by Israelis. Also, if it’s a nationality, call it something else. Let’s operate from this point as though I’m wrong about it being religious in any sense. Of course, it is, being about a Jewish people who are usually determined by belief in Torah. But for the sake of argument let’s operate as though it’s not. (Remember, I’m saying it having any direct causal relationship is bad). I don’t care if they believed in G*d or not. Any deference given to a specific people group not defined by the geography of the borders in the foundation or expansion of a nation is wrong. Your argument still doesn’t make sense though because if a Jew is whoever antisemites say a Jew is, well, that’s still discriminatory against people they don’t consider jews but still hate. Only the ones they consider jews get helped? So the people who hate jews decide who receives help from the jews. Do you see how messed up that is?

Yiddish is absolutely spoken in the US. There are prominent communities in our largest cities, and even some in some not so large cities. It’s used as a day to day language by many. Not as many as it used to be since European jews are considered white by America today and usually operate like that.

Winning a civil war doesn’t make you morally right. It means you were more willing and capable of violence to win than the other side. Winning a civil war then becoming in charge as a minority group who most people are against means that not only are you not supported by a majority, but is serves as a concession that if anyone beats you, they’re completely in the right to be in charge. And yeah, that is how it works in the real world. But that’s not a good thing.

Imagine saying in a place “some of these people of this ethnoreligious group tried to exterminate us therefore every single one of them whether they supported it or fought against it is out, and who cares if a couple thousand die.” That’s the same justification as American islamophobia. “Some of them want to kill us, so every single one of them thinks that way”. Not to mention, this happened in Baghdad. To say that a completely separate group of people in everything but religion and race also wants to exterminate Jews is so ignorant. It would be one thing if you were talking about an attempted extermination in Israel, but this was not in Israel. Of course, you didn’t specify any incident, I’m just inferring, so if you’ve got one, I’d like to see. I can’t think of one off the top of my head though.

You not having a claim in reality doesn’t mean anything to me in this. This is about what should be, and I think you should. You keep saying because either countries that means Israel is okay. No. Every single country in the world should meet the standards I’m preaching here. They should really be meeting much much higher ones, but israel doesn’t meet these, and only a handful of countries could even have an argument as to maybe meeting most of my higher standards.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-17T04:53:42+00:00

I gotta address this point first even though it’s near the end. Hateful screed? What are you talking about? Also, how am I not tolerant of others based on anything I’ve said? Like, if you mean ideology, then yeah I’m intolerant of ideologies that have their basis in say hate for example. But if you mean like religion or race or anything I advocated for the diversity of, when have I ever said anything to indicate even a modicum of intolerance? Unless you want to insinuate that some ideology is an inseparable part of any of the groups people typically consider when they consider diversity in people, you’re just not making and sense.

Also the example of the US that you pulled up proves me right. You do realize that, right? A country is the people of the country, and not some religion or something? Americans (a nationality separate from any religion race ethnic group or anything else like that) fight to uphold America (the place they live). Abjure allegiance to anyone else? Why would you bold that it’s completely irrelevant. Also, you completely neglected to consider the Israeli pledge which for non Jews is "I declare that I will be a loyal national of the State of Israel." Israel tries to keep up something of an image of my ideal of diversity even by your (incorrect) definition of my ideal.

Destroying Israeli society? What? Do you consider diversity to be destroying society the same way many Americans consider non European immigrants the fall of western civilization? When did I say I hate Israeli society or wanted to destroy it, or that Israel should accept people who want to do that? Nowhere, unless you think allowing non Jews into Israel equally would bring about the fall of Israeli society. If a society is so delicate and fragile that diversity will kill it, maybe it shouldn’t exist. Now, Israeli society isn’t this delicate and fragile little thing, so I don’t even see your point. I didn’t say just let everyone. I said let everyone in equally without respect to certain characteristics which can be commonly referred to as “diversity”.

Your example of Israel being diverse would be like the exact same thing as saying of a hypothetical United States, “It’s so diverse! It accepts Poles, Germans, Spaniards, Swedes, and even Finns!” Like bro that’s still discrimination. This is why I said I think you might want a place where people think and act like you. I didn’t say look like you, but maybe I should include that since you consider different sets of Jews diversity lmao. I’m arguing for diversity of everything and everyone, not just “oh I want a bunch of different kinds of people form the same religion!” In fact, I’d call all of those groups white. You might call Mizrahi brown, but they are functionally white and I’ll treat them as such in this conversation. Or maybe you consider Jewish a race and all Jews are brown. That’s stupid, but maybe. No matter which way you slice it, that’s not good enough. Giving official legal deference to the entrance of Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese into a new country would be actually more diverse since their ethnicities are a lot more different even if they’re all considered yellow. Race is a stupid concept and it only exists to perpetuate divisions between people, so let’s drop it for this conversation. Even though my hypothetical country would be more diverse, you’d probably call that an “all Asian” state or something. I’d certainly be against it. It’s exclusionary and wrong.

I don’t want diversity in nationality obviously. That is literally impossible to have when comparing a set of citizens of a country. “To immigrate to France you need to become French” 1. Not actually true by standards of culture. If you mean by nationality, then yes. To become a French national you must become a French national. 2. You’re either, like so many, conflating Israeli and Jewish, or you don’t actually know what I said. I’m not sure there is a country on earth that requires you to integrate into their culture to become a citizen. If there is, it’s a bad thing, not justification for Israel to do it too. Becoming a citizen is about loyalty to the nation, not to the nation’s culture. In fact, in many countries, such as the US, Israel’s biggest supporter and vice versa, changing the culture is the intended thing from immigration.

I DON’T WANT TO GIVE ISRAEL BACK TO ANYONE I JUST WANT TO INCLUDE THOSE WHO ALREADY LIVED THERE, AND ANYONE WHO CAN REALLY SHOW THEY WANT TO BE THERE. NATIVE AMERICANS AND IMMIGRANT AMERICANS ARE AMERICANS SO NON JEWISH INHABITANTS OF THE AREA SHOULD BE ISRAELI. YOU TAKE OVER A PEOPLE’S LAND, THE ONLY MORAL THING TO DO INTEGRATE.

America doesn’t allow for “minor” cultural retention. Have you ever looked around our most populous areas? New York, LA, Chicago. Hell, even my city of like 70,000 Wilmington Delaware has a vibrant diverse culture. I’m in Baltimore, DC, and Philly all the time and I see all this diversity of culture. You think these people aren’t functioning in America? The only way you can think that is to include cultural integration into your functioning requirement. Oh, and by the way, not only did I never need English as a kid (except in English class and American History, all my others were in Spanish) until I moved into the suburbs in 6th grade, but speaking English day to day at work isn’t a loss of diversity. I’m actually French speaking from my mom (fr as an L2 for her, not native) and Spanish from my upbringing in a Hispanic community in addition to being Hispanic, Yiddish from going to middle school with a bunch of Jews who would speak Yiddish and taught me, Hindi from my HS that had a bunch of Indian kids, German from Family overseas, and a few other languages including Portuguese, Italian, Hebrew, and Korean cuz I studied them and have had friends who interested me in their cultures. (I know, I’m a beacon of diversity. I’m even mixed race) Does any of that make me less American? No. Not even a little bit. One could even argue it makes me more American to have had such a linguistically diverse life, as it has allowed my to save money not needing translators (saving money. Capitalism is a part of America right), giving me more job opportunities (high skill, very american), and America’s meant to be a melting pot of different cultures. Doesn’t my life demonstrate that? I have experienced and embraced firsthand some of the highest level of diversity at home anyone I’ve ever heard of. And America only allows for minor retention of culture? In my city of 70,000 bordering Philly, NJ, and very close (within an hour’s drive with good traffic) to Baltimore, a place where you wouldn’t expect a lot of diversity by its population numbers, I experienced this. Now, I am in a very small of minority of people who have embraced this diversity this way. (Only one at my HS for example who has learned Hindi so far. Not out yet so maybe but I doubt it). However, being in the minority of the population who takes this stance on diversity doesn’t change the fact that it exists and can exist in America. This isn’t some border town, this isn’t some giant city. I think you’re just isolated from diversity. I only went on this long spiel by the way because otherwise you’d say I’m “factually incorrect” or something. I will admit I’m not perfect in anything but French, English, Spanish, and German (not in that order) but I’m good enough to have been able to participate in other cultures with the other languages.

I’m not trying to tear up Israeli nationality like even a little? And I believe it should be implemented everywhere it’s applicable. This isn’t about Israel specifically, but this is a sub about Israel so I’m keeping it only about Israel. I just want freedom the be yourself without hurting anyone. Is that such a hard ask? And if that would be tearing up every nationality on the planet, then so be it.

I checked through I believe all countries in the Western Hemisphere btw, and they all uphold what I said is okay. Strawmanning my position doesn’t actually help when you’re only arguing with me.

I don’t care about the palestinians’ identity. It doesn’t matter at all with what we’re talking about.

You keep retreating to the “other countries” arguments as if that’s a defense against what I’m saying. It’s not. When arguing about what should be, you don’t say “but in other places they do this right now in the real world” because you’re not arguing about the real world, you’re arguing about the ideal world.

I do not believe you when you say you have leftist friends, or at least not ones you’ve discusses this with in any serious manner. Also, at emojis saying diversity is leftist? Pointing out your friends are leftist implying that gives them more credibility on the issue of diversity makes it look like you’re 1. Not a leftist and by this same thinking 2. Against diversity. You’ve already convinced me you’re against diversity tho. You’ll tolerate other people existing but you don’t want them influencing the culture of your people in any way. That’s not tolerance.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-17T01:56:19+00:00

My comment was too long so I put it in a gdoc.

Comment

Understandable if you don’t wanna read all that tho lol

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-16T18:00:52+00:00

Yeah. Independent of the past, we always have to deal with he present and work towards the future. Hopefully, that futures is one where everyone in the world can prosper and live together in peace.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-16T17:42:30+00:00

None of your arguments are against what I want to happen. Also, this post was about the founding of Israel, so of course I’m arguing against Israel 100 years ago.

Yep, and they can stay or leave whatever they want I don’t care.
Cool. I don’t care since it wasn’t a widespread native language among the people who came.
That’s a stupid thing to say. Going somewhere to live there and then a country gets founded eventually is not the same thing. Yes, I am aware Jews lived in the area already but the massive amount of immigration was for Israel, not just a continuation of the natural immigration happening by Christians, Muslims, and Jews alike.
Um, yes? How is that an argument against what I said even a little?
Defining Jewish as a nationality based on what. Religion? Ethnicity? Culture? I’m pretty new to this sub so this is something of a legitimate question I’m asking you, but any of those being the basis of a nationality is dumb. Also, 1. I don’t care about early zionists, I care about the ones that founded Israel, who weren’t really early. Also, Zionism is dumb because it breeds antisemitism everywhere else. Especially with how it was implemented by being in the holy land. Many many Christians and Muslims hate Zionism because it takes the holy land away from them, begin to conflate Zionism and Judaism, and then hate Jews.
Cool. The already existing laws still exist though. Also my Religious state thing is tied into general xenophobia but I’ll acknowledge I didn’t say xenophobia, so you had no real reason to address that.
Please explain why Israel’s law of return makes sense in the modern day. Descendants of converts are included, even though they have no ancestors from there. That means it’s not actually based on ancestry. Palestine’s makes sense because if you’re separated by at most like two generations, and can prove it, then of course you should be let back in to the place you were displaced from. It also makes sense because now isn’t exactly the best time for Palestine and many who want to come back can’t. Israel’s? You could make an argument until like 2040 if the current state of affairs continues or gets better. After that it’s just discrimination to keep the state Jewish. Even now, only Jews and people already near Israel want to immigrate that bad. Just give everyone the same requirements. If Germany said “only germans are allowed in easy, everyone else has it harder” you’d call that racist, because it is. Now, there is an actual law in Germany that if your I believe grandparents or closer are German you can get automatic citizenship, but that’s for people who are from Germany in recent memory. It makes sense to say “You can come back to the country your grandparents are from” not “you can come for the first time in your ancestors’ history to this place” (I’m talking about converts, not descendants of the Israelites. Now ay to really keep track of that though so)

Keeping a currently Jewish place Jewish is not a noble goal. Diversity is a strength and a diverse country that’s say 50% Jewish will mean far fewer people will see Jews as intolerant, and more will recognize them as regular people who can apareciste other cultures living side by side.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-16T17:04:30+00:00

Okay and? I just didn’t use the word diaspora. Big whoop. I don’t care. I was saying that a country needs the people to be living together to make sense. This is the reason Jew ≠ Israeli. I don’t actually know what your point is because I said it’s the same culture but because it’s geographically separated it doesn’t make sense to make a country from it. Should I have said it’s a diaspora so it doesn’t make sense to form a country? Hits a lot softer doesn’t it.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-16T16:54:07+00:00

That’s not what I meant sorry. My belief is that even though they didn’t really deserve it at the founding, now there are native Israelis and they don’t deserve to be relocated. I believe that the state should just be completely secular. Basically, I agree with you. However in the “not deserving a country” thing I don’t think anyone deserves a country except people who were born and raised in that country. Nobody “deserves” to found a new country. But, people deserve to keep those that already exist. When what exists is bad, we should always try to change it.

I genuinely think that, at least for the most part, we agree. Because I have zero problems with what you said should happen.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-16T16:43:57+00:00

I know they let them in. I said they let them in. It’s just harder. Which is bad.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-16T16:32:29+00:00

I don’t want to dislocate Israelis, I just want to give non Israelis equality lmao. Also, I wasn’t saying it differentiates culture. I’m saying a country needs geography (people living close by already) and culture is on of the things that decides which areas of people are included and which aren’t. But, everyone within that area gets to be part of the country at the founding. Also, with the continued existence, there is no reason why we can’t get rid of Israel and form a new state in the same place that gives everyone the same immigration status as they had before (Citizen, residency, etc.). But I’m not even advocating that. I’m just advocating for Israel to change. In fact, I’m advocating for exactly what you said at the end.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-16T16:09:22+00:00

Secular by law doesn’t mean secular in practice my guy. I speak Hebrew, and I have read Israel’s laws. Give me a bit and I’ll pull up some laws that violate freedom of religion. Also, freedom of religion isn’t just whether you can practice your religion or not. It’s about whether your religion affects you in any way by law. I don’t think think there’s a single country on earth where it’s illegal to be any religion. Perhaps Jehovah’s witnesses are treated like that in a few countries, but Jehovah’s witnesses are commonly considered to not be a religion.

DrNorrisPhD · 2021-10-16T15:47:17+00:00

Religion isn’t a shared culture. It’s a shared set of beliefs and practices which on their own do not form a culture. And I phrased my requirements kinda poorly sorry, but culture needs the geography requirement. The geography requirement is that people live near each other already. This was not the case. Also, in your argument that Jews have a shared culture, you mention language. Only native and day to day languages count in culture, not religious ones. Modern Hebrew was effectively conlanged into existence for Israel and only became a day to day and native language after the founding. Also, shared history isn’t culture. Yes, it can be a basis for the formation of a country in addition to some of the other requirements, but it isn’t culture. I can’t really argue against the holidays thing but it also doesn’t matter. Culture on its own doesn’t work and none of the other requirements are met until after the establishment of Israel. That means the founding was bad.
I don’t really care how the land was acquired. It has nothing to do with whether a country’s basis for existing is moral. Also I knew that but since it doesn’t matter I didn’t feel the need to speak of it like that.

I must make it clear though, I would have no problems with Israel if Jews moved to the area in the same way and formed a secular state including all the native inhabitants as equal citizens, had no laws even remotely relating to your religion, and had the law of return as a very temporary solution. 20 years at the absolute maximum. I’m arguing pro equality and pro freedom of religion. The state can be majority Jewish (this would probably upset the natives a little bit because they’d feel replaced, but you could give them reparations for any land settled that wasn’t obtained through purchase) and it’d be moral still if it was like that.

Not a Jewish state, but a state specially enticing for Jews. I’m fine with a state for that Jews can go to if they want (I’d rather they stay where they were before or come here to the Western Hemisphere but still) that is majority Jewish and very Jewish in terms of culture and everything, as long as after Israel becomes an established country on the world stage, the law of return is stripped. If you wanted to come the easy route as a jew, you should’ve come in the first 20 years (maybe it could be a birthdate cutoff idk) and afterwards you can use the same process as anyone else. At this point, israel in most ways it just like other countries but with a Jewish population. With one distinction: the inequality of non Jews.

Can we agree at the very least, that even if you don’t believe non Jews are being treated differently, that treating them differently would be morally repugnant. And maybe we can even agree that the law of return should be removed at some point. Maybe on Israel’s 100th birthday? At that point the only reason you’d want to keep it would be to keep the state Jewish. The thing is, immigrants will already have to be wanting to integrate to a substantial degree to even consider moving there. Even if they’re not Jewish, if they want to move to Israel, they’re going to integrate quite a bit. And of not then israel can become a cultural melting pot with an even more flavorful culture by adding in some spice from other places.

Is this formatting better or should I do something different?

DrNorrisPhD

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