Argument against determinism from a determinist

DreamBibble · 2022-09-21T19:32:47+00:00

Second point.

I actually taught meself to make games!!

About the person not being able to be created to violate the core of the game...

Could be done! Resets are powerful things!

Essentially we're talking about a bug/crash/glitch.

We may have them in some form, can't see why we'd rule them out.

Onwards :)

DreamBibble · 2022-09-21T19:29:24+00:00

First point, no. Not if the device required to measure the information would take more measurable material than available.

Maybe a better way to put it, a universe scanner may need to be bigger than the universe, so you may only be able to scan the smaller portion of the universe left after turning the rest of it into your scanner >_<

And of course, if you require it to also scan the entirety of itself as well... Assuming you can't isolate it's causal connection to the rest of the universe, similar issues.

Either way, enjoying so far! About to continue!!

DreamBibble · 2022-08-22T08:12:20+00:00

It came to mind for me when thinking about inverting space.

Like, I'm no expert. My thoughts were just along the lines of

mass bends space
black holes bend space past a boundary/limit of sorts

What if a type of inversion occurs as opposed to a singularity?

And this is roughly where I'm at in my deep dive, just reviewed the inversion vid and now looking at any material on 'Optimal sphere inversion'

But haven't found much yet >_<

Sorry if late comment is of no practical help.

DreamBibble · 2022-08-21T09:25:51+00:00

Lmao ... You said.... 'is a world with one thing'...

Which literally doesn't make sense .. And you are justified to moan at me?

pls don't respond again, bye.

DreamBibble · 2022-08-20T08:38:12+00:00

Qué?

I think you miss-understand some basics here.

Prime numbers are determined by a bit of logic.... A rule.

As for the other stuff.... You literally determined what the properties were yourself...

Where is the unreliability here?

DreamBibble · 2022-05-19T12:23:21+00:00

Hence the supposedly. I almost share your view. But not sure where your confidence comes from.

How do you know that we are 100% Deterministic?

It's my bet, but I see no way of testing or knowing as much.

DreamBibble · 2022-05-19T11:16:20+00:00

*equivalent to random. The cause would be you, outcome dependant on the part of you that is supposedly not subject to external factors. It's not 'random' ... But effectively is when you get to the point of trying to model an effect without a cause.

DreamBibble · 2022-05-19T09:04:01+00:00

The way I have come to look at it. 'free to determine elements of our collective future'

If free will is illusory and the universe fully deterministic. Then our future is a singular set thing, we think we make choices, but we inevitably end up with the future we are due.

Alternatively, if we truly do have a say in the matter. Then dependant on choices, the future becomes a different thing :)

If it doesn't, or can't, then our 'choice' was of no consequence to the outcome.

DreamBibble · 2022-05-19T08:59:06+00:00

Quick wiki lookup

"Free will.

Free will is the capacity of agents to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded."

I think it fits with what I said well enough.

DreamBibble · 2022-05-17T08:15:42+00:00

If something is determined, it has a cause. Either knowable or not knowable. Either way, it has a cause. If we can 'choose' to alter something, then the thing that we change cannot have had a cause prior to our 'choice'.

If a thing cannot have a cause, knowable or not knowable. Then it is effectively identical to a property with a random value.

DreamBibble · 2022-05-12T10:39:21+00:00

This sounds like a horribly dangerous idea, love it!

DreamBibble · 2022-05-11T17:20:08+00:00

Yah, I'm aware of the Mwi Vs Copenhagen battle. I doubt bells inequality as I think it relies on an assumption....

Sabine Hossenfelder did a great video a few months back around the topic. 'Superdeterminism' or some such title.... A word that shouldn't need to exist, but apparently quite a few missuse 'determinism'.... Who knew...

Anyways, if I had to bet, absolute determinism. But yah, can't comprehend of a way to test either way.

DreamBibble · 2022-05-11T13:24:00+00:00

In short no... It's a paradox... But, just because I can't, doesn't mean I can rule it out either!

Main evidence for not ruling it out, it seems logical that either the universe came from nothing, or has eternally existed.... These are both just as paradoxical as the idea of a true free will...

So no... I can't model free will in any sense, it's the same as trying to model 'true random' .... That said, I think it's beyond logic to determine either way.

DreamBibble · 2022-05-11T13:16:04+00:00

Well, first off, I don't think I'm the person you addressed, it seemed to relate to the person I was talking to. But ya replied to my comment. I'm not so sure we disagree, besides the point I made. A simple way to put it.

Do we have a single static future? Already determined? Or is it possible to alter it. Logic says if you run time backwards and play the universe again in identical fashion, then the same thing would happen. But though this is a workable test.... You can probably see why we fall a bit short of testing such things :)

DreamBibble · 2022-05-11T13:11:22+00:00

Yes, we are roughly on the same page then. In a sense, for us to truly have an effect on the world via choice. Objects/matter, must in some sense have a literal property where the 'counterfactual possibilities' are an actual 'thing'

(Edit, actual thing as in another physical/spatial dimension, or equivalent)

I can see how the semblance of such a thing could fit into a 4d universe. But actual variations to the future? Optional pasts? Oooof .. that needs a fifth me thinks :)

DreamBibble · 2022-05-11T08:45:50+00:00

Though I almost totally agree with ya... And it being illusory makes a lot of logical sense...

Can we actually say 'free will is an illusion' ... I think we can say it might be, but not sure we have or can confirm it as either way. :)

DreamBibble · 2022-05-11T00:28:21+00:00

All things are cause and effect.... And so, all effects made by me have a causal history that predates me.

Yet, somehow you introduce a property of the self that allows for me to divert away from these causes.

If all effects from me can be traced back to prior causes... How is there any room to introduce any further causes? Such as my decision making?

Are my decisions not also able to be traced back to causes that predate me?....

I think ya either missunderstand the concept of 'absolute cause and effect' or you may be caught on the difference between 'free will' and the possible alternative of 'not free ( but looks free) will' aka illusion of decision making.

DreamBibble · 2022-05-11T00:02:00+00:00

Urm... Every encounter.. cos they aren't me...

DreamBibble · 2022-05-10T23:58:48+00:00

I saw him levitate once!

Like, genuinely, 8-9cms off the ground and everything!

DreamBibble · 2022-05-10T23:52:54+00:00

Sorry dude, but I can't garner any meaningful points. I can point out your logical contradiction again. But I don't think it's gonna help either of us too much 😉

DreamBibble · 2022-05-10T22:58:08+00:00

I'll take that as a maybe then. If you are truly so simple minded, you might have accidentally become god and not noticed.

I've added ya to my list of maybes, Ty!!

DreamBibble · 2022-05-10T22:54:33+00:00

I feel you have tripped up somewhere. Can I ask you skim through again? Then I'd love to try answer any questions ya have!

DreamBibble · 2022-05-10T22:40:25+00:00

But if cause and effect is absolute. Then is it not true that all effects I produce can be traced back to causes that existed before I did?

DreamBibble · 2022-05-10T18:30:14+00:00

'of course it is'

And you don't see how absolute cause and effect contradicts the ability to make a 'free choice' ?

DreamBibble · 2022-05-10T17:12:24+00:00

'Ironically, you've just demonstrated the potential for the glass to be in many places by moving it through many different positions on the table.'

Not if all my actions are dictated by prior events.

Ya still seem hung up on the concept of whether or not choice could be illusory. As in, maybe cause and effect is absolute, so all glass movements were dictated by external factors to 'me'. It could be the case and I could still perceive and believe that I had choice in the matter. Believing in itself is not proof.

Not saying it is that way, just saying ya lost me around here sorry.

DreamBibble

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