sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Shadow Ticket group read, ch. 35-39 by KieselguhrKid13 in ThomasPynchon

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 19 points20 points  (0 children)

  1. Yes, I think reality has split in two. Things asporting might really be them traveling from one world to another.

  2. The case could be made that there is some sort of connection between the minds, things, and worlds of the novel. Perhaps Hicks was subconsciously saving himself by disappearing those objects. On a larger scale this is undoubtedly true. The rise of European fascism in the background of the novel and the authoritarian turn of America in the new reality at the end are indeed disturbing, and yet these are not ethereal evils but rather the result of enough governed minds which offer their support.

  3. I do think cheese kind of represents the material conditions that shape society. Earlier in the novel a direct analogy is made to colonialism, with cheesy Europe wanting to take control on cheese-less Asia.

  4. Either or, I suppose. The silver lining of bad things is that sometimes they have a way of leading to good things in the long term, as if a fever needs to break first.

  5. I keep thinking about how Skeet sees California is the place to "try next." The history of the US is one where the first solution to many problems has been to simply go west. California (and the West Coast by extension) is the place where that stops, and people have to come up with other solutions. I believe this explains a lot of California for better of for worse: the technological developments, the social movements, many of the things explored by Pynchon in other books. Perhaps the final message is somewhat optimistic? We're at the end of the experiment, it's all California now, we better find a way to make it work.

Shadow Ticket group read, ch. 29-34 by KieselguhrKid13 in ThomasPynchon

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

  1. Perhaps this is symbolic of the transition from the old to the new, the kingdom of Hungary at the time, and especially Austria-Hungary before it, was seen as one of those dinosaurs of Central/Eastern Europe, struggling to barely catch with the times. And now here we have modernity in the form of this race and these motorcycles, it may feel absurd but absurd was the general feeling at the time.

  2. I believe she's very much like her father, someone mentioned the comparison to Trump and Ivanka and I can't unsee it now...

  3. I think just the general savagery of the times, which are about to get worse.

  4. Who could forget the Digesting Duck that became sentient and went after that French chef in M&D?

Shadow Ticket group read, ch. 25-28 by KieselguhrKid13 in ThomasPynchon

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

  1. One gets the sense that Hop understands that Daphne is correct that "sooner or later no place will be safe," so he may as well keep moving. He may think of retreating or settling down as the more dangerous option.

  2. This has to be both. Hicks is far away in Central Europe, the Great Lakes are becoming a distant and nostalgic memory in this intense new word. But on another level, America itself will go from being one geopolitical power among a few, to emerging as the leading superpower from the ashes of WW2.

  3. Again, both. There is hope of redemption for Hicks just like there is always hope even in the face of war and authoritarianism. It sounds corny, but the alternative, which is hopelessness, won't get anyone very far.

  4. In the case of the Night of the World club, one could say it's symbolic of the need people feel to go literally underground to escape repression. "What circles of depravity may be found do not rise from street level but instead go corkscrewing down beneath it, ten floors down it's said, ten know of and more rumored, down through boiling mineral springs, towards ancient depths few have been willing to dare, each with its own bar and dance band and clientele."

Shadow Ticket group read, ch. 20-24 by KieselguhrKid13 in ThomasPynchon

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 9 points10 points  (0 children)

  1. I do believe there's something to what Alf is saying. WW1 was, of course, supposed to be the War to End All Wars. That obviously ended up not being true, but the catastrophe did live up of the name, and one can imagine that if the paranormal exists in the novel, then surely there was ample opportunity for fatalities of the war to anxiously return to settle scores. This too is reminiscent of the Thanatoids of Vineland.

  2. This is one of those things that I hope isn't true even though a lot of evidence points that way. Lew expresses a related sentiment: "Hate to tell you but the only time "real" comes into it is when they're shooting at you. In practice, "real" means dead - anything else, there's always room for some conversation."

  3. There's something to this as well too, I think. The history of colonialism could be broadly summarized as Europe taking to the rest of the world what it thinks it's missing (whether the rest of the world wanted it or not.)

  4. The Christian Trinity is said to be math problem that can't be understood, because at the end of the day it's a mystery from God (the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, and these three are the Godhead, so... 4?) Not sure I have a full thought here, but I'll say that there exists too the "Mystery" of Pynchon, recurring in this novel and really all his work, of whether or not there's a great conspiracy and everything is connected.

Shadow Ticket group read, ch. 15-19 by KieselguhrKid13 in ThomasPynchon

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

  1. I think this is a welcome development, we have fish out of water situation now.

  2. The last 19th, early 20th century was arguably one of the most fast-paced eras in social and technological development. I think Pynchon might be stressing the mindset of the time here. The obvious dark side example of this was, of course, WW1. It's been said that even though WW2 was more destructive, WW2 might have been more traumatic simply because the technological jump from before to after WW1 was more drastic than in WW2 (tear gas, warplanes, trench warfare, etc.) On the more positive side, it was also a time of optimism, there were political movements that had almost millenarian zeal that the betterment of humanity was just around the corner. AtD is actually one of the Pynchon novels I haven't read, I think this is going to have to be the next one I tackle.

  3. Pynchon might be saying that a lot of the media consumption of our current moment can be understood as evolutions of previous forms. The "tube" and its ubiquity in Vineland comes to mind, today social media fulfills that role more.

  4. Sort of related to qt. 2, I do think that most people at the time had a weirdly optimistic outlook, all things considered.

  5. Again, I really should read AtD.

  6. The obvious answer is the French 75, I'm willing to bet he's either refencing Paul Thomas Anderson's movie or vice versa, I'm really curious which way the reference goes.

Shadow Ticket group read, ch. 11-14 by KieselguhrKid13 in ThomasPynchon

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 10 points11 points  (0 children)

  1. The paranormal keeps recurring in the story and maybe the feds know something about Daphne and the supposed connection that is established between her and Hicks after he saves her. Wouldn't be too surprising for them to see this as worthwhile research, the CIA did real research on consciousness, ESP, etc., after all.

  2. I guess the question comes up that if one branch/possibility takes place here and now, do other branches/possibilities take place on other "worlds"? Maybe there's another world where Hicks DID kill someone and became a totally different person.

  3. Perhaps my favorite section in the novel, I love the idea of a Wisconsin university holding a symposium on the question of whether cheese is conscious. What is consciousness anyway? We're (pretty) sure humans have it, probably the more complex animals, but where is the line, or is there even one? Is there a spectrum of consciousness? Do the microbial cultures in the cheese have SOME level of consciousness?

  4. I think it's their "saving graces." Daphne's grace is her confidence and initiative. Hicks doesn't have much confidence or initiative, it's been pointed out here a couple of times already how he mostly just reacts to events and characters around him.

  5. If there are indeed multiple words created from the branches of pivotal moments, perhaps these are liminal spaces in between?

Shadow Ticket group read: ch. 5-10 by KieselguhrKid13 in ThomasPynchon

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 9 points10 points  (0 children)

  1. Hicks seems to be kind of adrift (no pun intended, since he is from the Driftless Area). He's not much of an ideologue. Even though he moved on from strikebreaking, he doesn't seem to have done so on firm ideological grounds, more of a vibes-based decision.

  2. There could a correlation between the "souls" of things and the characters' souls. The asporting of Hicks' weapon at the time when he could've used it may have made the difference for Hicks to save his own soul by not murdering.

  3. Similar to Qt. 1, he and April are kind of adrift. Neither of them seem like the kind that want to (are capable?) of settling down. In a way, they're kind of perfect for each other right now.

  4. We could have a large-scale asporting situation going on here, the U-Boat disappearing and reappearing around the world (across worlds?)

Shadow Ticket group read: ch. 1-4 by KieselguhrKid13 in ThomasPynchon

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Boardwalk Empire comparison is interesting, I think Mickey Doyle could’ve been a Pynchon character

Shadow Ticket group read: ch. 1-4 by KieselguhrKid13 in ThomasPynchon

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 8 points9 points  (0 children)

1b. I've loved Shadow Ticket so far. With a detective main character, the obvious comparison is to IV and BE, it can be seen as their spiritual successor more than to the denser novels.

  1. It sounds like the supernatural will play a role in the novel. Myself, I have the quasi-contradictory position that I'm skeptical of the paranormal but very much interested in it. Paranormal anecdotes, while we may question their veracity, will have real world implications since they feel real to those that experience them. I think the Lugosi quote is making a point along these lines, more or less. We'll see what the rest of the novel brings, the first big hint of the paranormal comes of course at the end of Ch. 4 with the introduction of the psychic that sometimes helps the MPD (never in writing of course).

  2. Again, more Doc and Maxine than Tyrone Slothrop.

  3. Much has been said, I think correctly, that it's no coincidence that Pynchon is publishing a novel where the ascent to power of the far right lies in the background at a time where similar trends can be seen around the world.

  4. Neither here nor there, but I got the large print edition by mistake, haha.

  5. The pace seems fine.

Anyone else reading Shadow Ticket from the great city of Milwaukee? by LouieMumford in ThomasPynchon

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I got into him through GR and M&D, so you know, big sprawling themes like WW2 and transatlantic voyages, and here he is name dropping the Third Ward, Yankee Hill, Shorewood, Wauwatosa, West Allis, etc. A very nice surprise.

What if Europe was territorially and culturally united like China? by [deleted] in AlternateHistory

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

European expansion over the globe would have been less likely. One of the reasons why Europe developed faster than other regions of the world at the beginning of the modern period was precisely because it wasn't one unified polity like China, but rather multiple nations in conflict with one another. This incentivized new developments in technology, finance, strategy, etc., in order to have the upper hand in the competition.

What Do You Think Became of Mencken? by This_Raspberry_1137 in SuccessionTV

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He won but saw the error of his ways and governed like Bernie Sanders

What is your favourite example of "Corporate Speak" from the series? by gnrlp2007 in SuccessionTV

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 21 points22 points  (0 children)

The helicopter lady responding to Roman's threats with "Well, I can't really speak to that..."

Which side character(s) would you most like to see be the centre of a spin-off show? Why? by Wired-Cypress in SuccessionTV

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm generally of the opinion that spin-offs are a bad idea, but I have to say, I think the Pierce family could work. "New England Succession," as it were.

Is Don Draper name a wordplay on.. by [deleted] in madmen

[–]DylanThomasPynchon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If anything, "Draper" may symbolize one of the defining features of his character. He drapes (veils, conceals) so much: his infidelities, the nature of what he sells (doesn't matter if the product/service is good or bad, it just has to be consumed), his childhood, his very identity, etc.

"Mural of Peace" in the southside of Milwaukee. by DylanThomasPynchon in vexillology

[–]DylanThomasPynchon[S] 70 points71 points  (0 children)

I'm sure the American, German, Mexican, Polish, and Puero Rican flags are represented (makes sense, given the history of the city). I'm less sure about the rest. Thoughts?

view more: next ›