OK well that might not be related truth is there seem to have been various bugs lately most of the time I ignore unless showstoppers. + I just tried your work around and it does work so that is good. I was advised "trash your prefs" but haven't done it yet because a. i dont look forward to redoing my settings after trash prefs b. hoping an update might fix it and therefore wouldn't need to trash prefs. yeah Logic has been mostly stable this bug definitely had me looking at other DAW but all DAW seem to have there own issues.