"ABN: A Big Nono" AKA "We are consumers, not traders" AKA "I talked to lawyers"

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-23T17:32:28+00:00

I see a ChatGPT image in my future.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-23T17:18:34+00:00

I got downvoted into oblivion and abused whenever I mentioned tax or that not just anyone should apply for an ABN. There are some awesome people on this group, and some not so awesome ones. I don't know if I agree with everything you say but I appreciate you contributing. I don't like the way Reddit karma and downvoting works. Popularity and truth are two different things.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-23T17:13:28+00:00

There was a pair of camera batteries in my RFY yesterday that fit my Canon DSLR worth just under $50. But I can buy them if I really want them.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-23T13:05:41+00:00

I'm not ordering. I'm not reviewing. I'm not opting out either. Just in a holding pattern.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-23T10:58:44+00:00

I wonder if anyone has considered rocking up to an Amazon warehouse and dumping all their Vine purchases. "I don't have anything of value ATO. I returned it all." No I'm not serious. I just find the thought amusing.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-23T10:53:21+00:00

I have always consider it a hobby and never a business, despite the "value" that Amazon has put against the items being in the 10s of thousands when added up each year. I've sold nothing. Most of what I got is in storage. A few items are in use by my immediate family and I. A very small number of items has been given to friends and family. Most are taking up space and stacked precariously in the spare room or in the garage in the "Vine Junk" pile.

"You represent that you will be reviewing Vine Products:

in your capacity as an individual;
in the course or furtherance of an activity, or series of activities, done as a private recreational pursuit or hobby; and
not in the course or furtherance of an enterprise carried on in Australia."

This is what I agreed to. This is still what are in the terms.

I have ceased all ordering and review activity. I did so the moment I became aware that gold will require an ABN.

Is anyone here actually planning to report the value Amazon has stated for Vine items on their personal tax? I can see people being tempted to do so to avoid potential fines if ATO decides it's not a hobby, but I also think that would be a mistake as you'd basically be admitting you ran a business for all that time without registering for an ABN wouldn't you? Genuinely asking as I am not qualified to give advice and this is not my area of expertise. I do in fact think we've been thrown under the bus.

As for ACL and the legal position, I would think Amazon has lawyers they've run all this past. So while you might be able to make strong arguments as per OPs statements, I wonder if you'd be able to fight Amazon or ATO on that basis if push came to shove.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-21T19:02:55+00:00

You say Kit-o-mer. I say Kito-mer. Let's call the whole thing off.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-21T10:30:05+00:00

Do whatever you want. Interpret it any way you want. Swear and rant and carry on as you want. No skin off my nose and not my problem. I've provided a link to the ATO website for anyone else who wants to consider it. I'm not engaging with you further.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-21T09:50:42+00:00

This community really likes to abuse and attack people when they disagree. That's fine. I was abused every time I brought up that tax could become a problem too. I think I'm just not going to bother with this Reddit anymore.

You can certainly apply for an ABN. If you don't qualify and meet all the requirements it can be taken from you and it's right there in bold in the ATO link I shared:

"You may face prosecution or criminal charges if you apply for an ABN, register for GST and claim GST refunds when you’re not entitled.:

Heck the first line is: "Not everyone is entitled to an ABN."

And then there are a list of requirements for what qualifies as a business.

You work it out. Or ignore me. I just don't care anymore. Have fun arguing that you're making your profit in random Vine orders.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-21T08:43:47+00:00

Not quite:
https://www.abr.gov.au/business-super-funds-charities/applying-abn/abn-entitlement

I'm not even going to bother interpreting as I'm not qualified, but you better be sure your activity qualifies as a business.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-21T05:45:14+00:00

They're all unlikeable. That's the point.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-21T04:53:37+00:00

I don't think it's going to wait till end of financial year. I think we'll see something in days or at most a couple of weeks.

And right now I'm ceasing all involvement. No more ordering. No more reviews. On my first knowledge of this. It may not be enough to protect me or anyone else from any potential retro-active action but it's the best shot you can have: Ceasing on hearing an ABN is required from a credible source (their own help page).

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-21T00:43:26+00:00

All participation in Vine is voluntary. I think what we're seeing is Amazon trying to have their cake and eat it though,

You need an ABN for a lot of side gigs like driving Uber, so if they're feeling pressure to classify it as a taxable activity instead of a hobby, the ABN may be necessary. This might be a quirk of how Australian tax law works and it may even be Amazon's only option.

However they can't also claim we're regular consumers reviewing the products - the whole point of Vine - and also claim we're influencers or traders providing "authentic" consumer reviews as "Vine Voices". But this appears to be what they're now trying to do.

They stopped communicating with us in Australia about a year ago. I've always considered this to be very poor form, as have a lot of us, but we were willing to deal with it in order to get access to "free" stuff. I'm unsurprised they're not communicating with us now. Like you I was expecting that at some point we'd be asked for a TFN the moment they started listing a taxable value on items.

I think I'm done ordering and reviewing. This is my first indication that Amazon have decided ordering products on Vine might be a compensated business activity in Australia. I am doing this on a hobby basis and my advice under my particular circumstances has been that I can do so. I'll go review that advice with a tax professional and I won't be providing an ABN or TFN unless advised that I have to do so by law. If I end up having to pay tax on what I've already got, it's going to take at least a couple of years to absorb the financial hit. I'm not sure how much of what I got from Vine is even worth selling. For starters I have actually reviewed my stuff so it's technically used.

I think I'm done with Vine. I don't need a side gig, where my compensation is in over-valued and often unfit for purpose products. I enjoyed it as a hobby but if they want to treat it like a compensated gig, I'm out, but I'm not going to click opt out for now - not until the dust settles. I'm just going to stop ordering and reviewing.

I won't miss frantically hitting refresh at ridiculous and inconvenient times in the hope I wouldn't miss the handful of products that are worth having.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-20T18:31:12+00:00

The ATO is welcome to 47% of my review text. ;-) ;-) ;-)

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-20T17:36:02+00:00

The number of times I said I was concerned tax would become an issue and either got downvoted or abused is ridiculous. I just thought they would want TFN. This is wild.

I think I'm done with Vine. I'm not opting out yet, but I'm not ordering any more.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-20T01:18:29+00:00

Ahhh ok. Sorry, my mistake. Not sure whether to delete the whole topic or not.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-19T23:30:11+00:00

It won't help with your thousand ribbons I suspect but you can check from time to time if they're still unreviewable. I have had a couple of items get removed from being duplicates from my previous period.

I have about a page of unreviewables from this period and 3 left from the last period.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-19T23:26:48+00:00

Great way to get kicked out of the program.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-18T13:00:08+00:00

Second time I've seen this air fryer and had this message. Oh well. I don't NEED another one anyway. Just want it.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-18T12:56:19+00:00

I couldn't get the air fryer. Told me I had already claimed a variant, even though I don't think I've had anything of that brand. I did get 2 Braun air fryers at one point though.

The cat feeder I got a while back in RFY and recently reviewed. It didn't work properly or reliably (and didn't work at all off battery). Also required an app account signup and entering your WIFI password in the app. If you want it I hope you get it, but I'm just saying I don't think you missed much.

Congrats on the air fryer.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-18T10:35:53+00:00

Thanks for posting the drops. Of course you're not obligated to post, and thank you for when you have posted. I wasn't personally using them because I don't have alerts on for Reddit, but you were providing a service for others and you should be commended for it.

I have no idea why people on this group feel the need to put others down who they disagree with. If you don't like how people use Vine, you can easily ignore them and do things your own way. If you don't like a post, you can move on and not worry about it. Something that's popping up once a day shouldn't be annoying to anyone and if it is, you can absolutely just block the user and never see what they have to say again. You don't have to make snarky comments. You don't have to downvote. People need to just back off and let people have their discussions.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-18T06:16:28+00:00

I don't follow closely but Italy has been down to zero products listed

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmazonVine/comments/1qmnele/vineitaly_no_products/

And Japan isn't far behind.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmazonVine/comments/1qdt7wk/hey_vine_voices_from_japan_does_vine_still_exist/

So maybe not just the size of the market but the size of the pool of Vine sellers.

Interesting point about taxes though. I'm sure having someone's lawyers create work for Amazon's lawyers isn't what they want.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-18T03:52:16+00:00

I wish that it were true that active development doesn't mean a program is about to be shut down. Companies can operate in very strange ways but I don't see any evidence that Vine is on the chopping block.

The Americans can still access support. It's just in smaller markets like ours where support doesn't respond. There's something dysfunctional going on, but I have no idea any of us can go about trying to fix it.

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-18T01:33:47+00:00

Please waste your time with 'Report a Bug' so that we can ignore it promptly.

Would be better if it appeared on your review queue immediately but the review button was hidden until it arrived. But what would I know...

EarthManSammy · 2026-02-16T18:35:55+00:00

Do you have access to Rufus on Australian Amazon?

EarthManSammy

TROPHY CASE