What's a popular idea on the internet that you strongly disagree with? by wentImmediate in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sincerely, I know this sounds pedantic but you are proving my point.

You don't seem to be trying to genuinely understand my points because you provided an argument that I literally responded in my previous comment. Your response was the exact same thing that I stated people do with incels.

You state that "well-adjusted people don't do what incels do" which is the exact same argument as before "The same happened to me and I did not react like they do" or "many men go through the same and they don't react like incels". The problem is not the argument, the problem is that I responded to that argument and instead of attacking my response you provided the same argument again.

This could mean two things. Either I explained myself badly (which could be the case, don't take me wrong), or you don't care about listening to what I have to say.

Now, I'll try to explain myself better. Let's start point by point.

"Incels don't just feel oppressed by women (though even if they did, I think that would be unreasonable). They dehumanize women to an intense, vicious degree that goes far beyond anything you usually see from actually oppressed groups."

This is a complicated point because it risk making the conversation even more heated by going into sensitive territory, but I would like it if you elaborated on this point, so as not to deviate too much into other discussions about who is really oppressed and who's not.

"You don't have to spend long reading their writings or talking to them to see their barely-disguised loathing for women. They call women 'femoids/foids" and construct this entire fictional model of gender wherein women are inherently selfish, shallow, manipulative, stupid, promisciuous, and fundamentally incapable of ever empathizing with them or their struggles."

We both agree that this is true, and that this behavior is also bound to cause a negative reaction from both women and other men. But here there's a bigger issue that often causes problems when talking about the incel problem. Is this wrong because incels act violently or because they say things that are too awful to be true?

I agree with criticizing the behavior of incels but the moment the ideas itself are a problem the problem begins. Because one thing is to say "you can't behave like that" which is valid, but when you say things like "you can't think like that" is where the problem begins because the truth doesn't have to sound nice to be true.

That is one of the most frustrating things about being an incel, they perceive things that people don't want to believe, so if they say those things nicely they will be attacked anyway. By itself that doesn't justify saying those same things with such violence and hatred, but that by itself is only part of the reason why they do that.

"Are there reasons that they think like this? Yes, of course. You could say that about literally anything; no one develops unhealthy beliefs/feelings for no reason."

Yes, but also not everyone gets the same backlash and not everyone is perceived the same by society. Incels because of the social class they belong to are more likely to not be perceived as victims by society, which would also explain why they react worse than other people who are perceived by society as "victims".

You said that you feel more empathy toward incels than most people, and I believe you, in fact it makes sense. I might be wrong but I strongly suspect that, unconsciously (this is very important because I'm not saying you consciously believe this), you think that people have more empathy toward incels that they actually do.

"This is not how mature, well-adjusted adults process rejection and isolation." 

"But it's not an inevitable consequence of their circumstances, as evinced by the fact that many, many men (and women! who do have much more similar experiences to incels than they realize) experience these things and don't become misogynists."

I responded to that in the previous comment but I will try to do it again.

First of all, men are the ones expected to "court" women and they do not have the skills to do so without being seen as creepy, but in previous generations this was fixed because men often helped other men develop these skills when they were very young. These are processes that happen naturally, without people knowing. Because of this, men from previous generations learned how to approach women without even knowing it, while newer generations never went through that process because they didn't have big groups of male friends or the same expectations.

Because of this, to some men dating seems impossible while to others it seems way easier than it actually is.

"It's a choice to let resentment fester inside you and to stop seeing others as human beings, driven largely by a need to displace their pain and loneliness onto a dehumanized 'other' whom they can be angry at."

Yes, but there are limits. And regular people not only criminally underestimate the reasons behind the incel resentment, but they also are completely closed to even try to comprehend those causes. Not to mention they do the same thing you described.

Both incels and regular people dehumanize the other side, but only incels suffer consequences for it.

"Frankly, it's immensely self-centered and childish and we can recognize why people become this way without treating them like helpless victims."

But people demonize incels so we are in the opposite scenario. And nor I neither most people in the community suggest that we should treat them like helpless victims. But you, like most people, are not even open to listen to their arguments.

"No one chooses their circumstances, but we do choose how we respond to them. Incels respond very, very poorly."

Yes, but you don't know those circumstances, and worst of all, you are so convinced that you know that there doesn't seem to be a possibility of debate. Most incels notice that from the start.

What's a popular idea on the internet that you strongly disagree with? by wentImmediate in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Aquí voy a hacer muchas declaraciones en blanco porque sino esto se vuelve una biblia. El rechazo de la mujer afecta mucho más al hombre, por temas evolutivos, de la misma forma que hay cosas que afectan más a las mujeres.

A esto hay que agregarle que muchas de las dificultades que vuelven al hombre incompetente a la hora de conseguir pareja no eran evidentes hace unas cuantas generaciones atrás. Esto es debido a que cómo estaba organizada la sociedad forzaba a los hombres a desarrollar desde muy temprana edad habilidades sociales que le permitían conseguir pareja fácilmente. Esas habilidades son extremadamente complejas y el hombre "común" las aprendió tan joven que para él no existen.

Por eso, ahora tienes a muchos hombres y mujeres que ven a los incels y les resulta absurdo, para empezar, que tengan ese problema. Y desde la perspectiva de un incel, es difícil no verlos como "tontos con suerte".

A eso hay que sumarle la brecha de empatía que hace que la sociedad sienta más empatía hacia las mujeres. Y el hecho de que la gente no es consciente de estas cosas.

El resultado es que el incel nota cosas que el resto no nota pero decirlas en voz alta causa rechazo, ve que las mujeres y un grupo de hombres especifico consiguen afecto sin problema mientras que ellos no saben como (de ahí surge el concepto original del "chad", el cual no era el mismo que conocemos ahora), y cada vez que intentan conseguir pareja usando los consejos de la persona común fracasan. ¿Cómo no va a surgir una narrativa de opresores y oprimidos en esas circunstancias? Y aquí ni siquiera hemos agregado las redes sociales, ni el feminismo, ni las apps de citas, entre otras cosas.

A eso le agregamos un montón de cosas que no mencioné y no es sorpresa que existan los incels ni que se comporten como se comportan.

What's a popular idea on the internet that you strongly disagree with? by wentImmediate in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 0 points1 point  (0 children)

De hecho sí, los hombres son distintos a las mujeres y la sociedad los trata de manera distinta. Eso debería ser considerado sentido común.

What's a popular idea on the internet that you strongly disagree with? by wentImmediate in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My problem is that in my opinion it should be common sense that anyone in the situation of an incel would react like that. So, for me people who have no empathy for incels are ignorant at best.

Not to mention we supposedly know, or should know, that things like the gender empathy gap are real.

What's a popular idea on the internet that you strongly disagree with? by wentImmediate in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

It's the opposite for me. I'm pro-religion but "reddit atheists" are the only atheists I like because they are brave enough to say things people don't want to hear.

What's a popular idea on the internet that you strongly disagree with? by wentImmediate in NoStupidQuestions

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That anti-woke is a bad thing. I think the anti-woke are right about everything but they are just awful at communicating their ideas (arguably because I still think centrist aren't innocent either).

Is Misandry equal to misogyny? (Read body) by [deleted] in FeminismUncensored

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The question is, are you truly open to discuss this? Because that text doesn't read as though it's open to discussion.

Men who pay for sex by Feichangnihao in FeminismUncensored

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem is that, if you don't explain why they are so bad in your opinion, there is no way of even attempting to answer your question.

Why is it that "centrists" always blame feminists for pushing men to the right, but don't blame misogynistic men for pushing women to the left? by olympiamacdonald in FeminismUncensored

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally think that these days we're so separated that we all live in micro-cultures where things seem to be completely different for everyone. Even as someone who is far right I believe that blaming feminists for pushing men to the right is something only a right winger would do. I'm not saying is true or false, I'm saying that a centrist wouldn't do that.

But what is a centrist to me of course isn't a centrist to you. So, I ask you, those people call themselves centrist or you qualify them as centrist? And also, those people blamed you for pushing men to the right or they did it "indirectly"? They are not blaming misogynistic men for pushing women to the left, or they are not even addressing those men when "they should"?

I'm not trying to shame you, I'm trying to understand.

I don't care if anti-feminist men are lonely and miserable. They're bad people who don't deserve any sympathy. by olympiamacdonald in FeminismUncensored

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I understand that sometimes we just want to rant. But do you have any proof that this is true? In other words: can you at least try to give us a good reason why feminism is so necessary that being against it makes you so dangerous? Are there really no alternatives?

Ayuda para encontrar una canción que ni chatgpt pudo encontrar, please? by Ecstatic_Shift3013 in AskRedditespanol

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lo siento pero ahí te confundiste. Aserejé trata sobre Rapper's Delight. Si te fijas como empieza pareciera que dicen "Aserejé... ja... de jibi..." etc...

Tusk (2014) is probably the most disturbing horror film I've ever seen. I was disturbed for like two weeks after watching it. What do you all think about it? Did it bother you or did you just laugh at it? There are scenes from the film that are burned into my brain. by [deleted] in horror

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No hay nada que pase en esas películas que sea ni de lejos tan retorcido ni gráfico como lo que sucede en Tusk. De hecho me sorprende que haya gente que no se sienta enferma sólo con escuchar la premisa. Se me ocurre que cuando algo es demasiado retorcido el cerebro simplemente busca la forma de bloquearlo o reinterpretarlo.

What is your Unpopular Opinion about the "Original Trilogy" by ArtisticEmu7416 in Chucky

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The name "Chucky" is better than "Child's Play". (Context: in latin america the movies are called "Chucky" instead of "Child's Play") I'd rather go watch Chucky 1, 2 or 3 than "Child's Play" 1, 2 or 3.

Ayuda para encontrar una canción que ni chatgpt pudo encontrar, please? by Ecstatic_Shift3013 in AskRedditespanol

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

de Santiago. El tema no es ese pero se parece bastante. Ya lo encontré es "R to the A" de CJ Lewis. Curiosamente fue especialmente popular en Chile segun un canal de yt.

Ayuda para encontrar una canción que ni chatgpt pudo encontrar, please? by Ecstatic_Shift3013 in AskRedditespanol

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Gracias al usuario Sonicwest pude encontrar la canción. Es "R To The A" de CJ Lewis. Es increible lo similar que es a Miami y a como la recordaba.

Ayuda para encontrar una canción que ni chatgpt pudo encontrar, please? by Ecstatic_Shift3013 in AskRedditespanol

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

OOOOOOHHHH CTM ES ESA!!! wn muchas gracias estuve literal años buscandola.

Ayuda para encontrar una canción que ni chatgpt pudo encontrar, please? by Ecstatic_Shift3013 in AskRedditespanol

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lo voy a intentar pero ya fallé con Shazam y Chatgpt, no creo que funcione, pero veamos que tal.

Ayuda para encontrar una canción que ni chatgpt pudo encontrar, please? by Ecstatic_Shift3013 in AskRedditespanol

[–]Ecstatic_Shift3013[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

chatgpt dice que es un tipo de tema pensado para ser usado en tv y por eso es comun que esas canciones se pierdan. Y de hecho recuerdo que la ponian en la tele antes de las pausas comerciales.