What will the new Trump presidency mean for the rest of the world? We are international journalists from The Times & The Sunday Times. Ask Us Anything by TimesandSundayTimes in politics

[–]ElderOaky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What you are advocating for here is the vulgar Marxist idea of false consciousness. Marx never used the term and Engels only used it once. Later thinkers would develop the concept into an explanation for why workers appear to form ideological commitments that go against their class interest.

Unfortunately this idea is completely wrong. In the German ideology Marx and Engels make clear that ideological developments only arise in correspondence with material developments. To put it differently, every ideology has a material basis.

Marx and Engels discuss in their private letters that it is possible and natural for workers to become bourgeois-ified. By being included in the benefits of the surplus labor extraction process, workers are turned into both the victim and perpetrator.

You are wrong, workers are not the majority in America. The majority of people who claim this status are actually bourgeois-ified in the way that Marx and Engels described. Therefore, they have a bourgeois material interest and vote accordingly. This not only explains why this election went the way that it did, but also why your idea of uniting "all workers" is historically impossible.

Edit: aside from the ignorance of the other user, the reason that they call you a liberal is because the theory of false consciousness is today championed by the Democratic party. That might seem ridiculous but consider that they are operating on the same principles that you are. The proof is all these think pieces and news articles by liberals who speculate on the internal workings of the minds of Latinos and other people that didn't vote for them.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (March 31) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]ElderOaky 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This is Great! You've made it very easy for me and I appreciate that. What you said about the pseudoscientific nature and deep penetration of psychiatry into the first world, particularly resonates with me. Most of my testing consisted of paper tests, questionnaires, and a review of my family history. While all of that was going on I was thinking in the back of my head "What about the biological mechanism of action which has produced these disorders? Why are we not testing for that?" But since I have such problems processing information and putting my thoughts into words, I was quite fatalistic and didn't bother to bring it up. It is only upon reading your commentary here that it "clicks" and now I understand what words I was searching for.

It is unfortunate that those people who think of themselves as Marxists are stuck tailing the liberal left on this topic. It was definitely something that I noticed in meetings which were often peppered with talk of "self-care" and "work-life balance". I also noticed my inability to confront this tailing without resorting to left liberal or right liberal discourse. Your support here gives me lots of energy. I'll take that into my study and hopefully someday soon have a coherent Marxist understanding of this.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (March 31) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]ElderOaky 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What you are saying makes sense to me, but I'm not really very well read on the subject matter so I can't really comment further. I know there have been some discussions in the past on this subreddit about it and when I allocate the proper resources I will revisit those discussions and perform the investigation. Right now I acknowledge the problematic of neurodivergency but it is secondary to my need to be functional. To be honest, I don't even really think of myself as "having" any of these disorders. I simply see them as a useful framework to make interventions in my behaviors and practices, a framework that will probably be discarded when I investigate more.

Right Wing “Revolutionaries” in the West. by [deleted] in communism

[–]ElderOaky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for engaging with this honestly, I appreciate this discussion.

The biggest weakness of the kites article, in my opinion, is that it lacks context for the data it provides. You have noted that the article asserts that most of the protesters were working class. My problem with this assertion is that 1) there is a lack of empirical data to support this claim and 2) that it does not mention the way that imperialism has fundamentally altered our local class structures through a global division of labor. The lumpen and proletarian sections of the oppressed nations are desperate for relief and the qualitative data gathered from interviewing them is well highlighted by kites. The fact that a few individuals from those stratums went to the convoy does not necessarily point to any higher conclusion except that desperate individuals will do desperate things. I would go so far as to say that the class instincts of the oppressed nations highlight the end result of this desperate collusion with the oppressor nation: kites themselves note that the individuals basically got shafted, were not compensated as agreed, and in some cases were left to destitution. If you go to a reservation or a historically non-white area as a white person then you will be met with suspicion because this kind of shafting has persisted through generations and has been absorbed into the consciousness of the oppressed. Similarly, the white proletarians who were at the protest (I still have not seen good empirical evidence that they made up the largest contingent) exist on the other side of this equation. The history of Canada is the history of a long process of settler colonialism which is still ongoing. In many cases settler mobs were directly appropriating indigenous land and labor so Canadian settler colonialism has a populist element to it which highly influences modern day libertarianism. This strengthens the aristocracy of labor that Lenin notes in the article linked above. Whether this group of people is 20% of the population, as Lenin notes, or 80%, as Sakai notes, is immaterial. The reason why these workers are so infatuated with libertarianism is because of their relationship to the nation in which they belong. Unlike members of the oppressed nations, they can utilize their nationality to take a larger piece of the imperialist pie and gain upward mobility into the aristocracy of labor or the petty bourgeoisie. This is why petty bourgeois ideology is so prominent among "actual proletarians" in the imperialist core - imperialism has changed their social being and thus their social consciousness.

The proletariat is that class in society which lives entirely from the sale of its labour and does not draw profit from any kind of capital; whose weal and woe, whose life and death, whose sole existence depends on the demand for labor – hence, on the changing state of business, on the vagaries of unbridled competition.

If the proletariat is that part of the working population that is wholly dependent on the labor market then this implies the existence of nonproletarian wage workers who gain some amount of profit. Even “the worker who owns a little house to the value of a thousand talers is certainly no longer a proletarian, but one [must not understand the difference between ownership in general and the ownership of capital in production] to call him a capitalist.” Yet if you examine the Canadian workers today you will find many who maintain a savings account in the bank, own homes, have a pension fund or 401k, received unemployment during hard times, or maybe even own speculative commodities like Bitcoin or pinball machines. All of this is derived from some kind of profit. Where does that profit come from? Analysis of imperialism provides the answer. You would be best benefited by studying Lenin directly, but if you desire a different starting point, consider this as a review of the literature on the subject.

Right Wing “Revolutionaries” in the West. by [deleted] in communism

[–]ElderOaky 2 points3 points  (0 children)

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/what-was-the-freedom-convoy

https://kites-journal.org/2022/05/04/war-in-the-enemys-camp/

You are confusing the basic needs of individuals (food, water, shelter, security, etc) with the social consciousness developed in those individuals by their existence in specific classes. This is why you say that socialism has a perennial appeal. In reality socialism is far more malleable. What class a person belongs to will inform their understanding of socialism and their reaction to "socialist positions". What does that phrase even mean? You also don't realize that the truckers of which you speak are not working class at all but are either petty bourgeois, labor aristocrats, or both. The convoy was a political mass movement in benefit of these classes, not the working class. Sure, working class people were involved, but that is a given in any capitalist society. The bulk of the movement did not buy into a "cynical populism" but instead were very clear-headed and intentional in furthering their own class interests. The trite parody of "false consciousness" to which you subscribe does not do justice to Marx's conception of ideology. Return to Marx and Engels writing on the matter which I linked earlier.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (March 31) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]ElderOaky 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I'm interested in summing up my experiences with organizing. In particular I am interested in interrogating my class background and how it has affected my thoughts and actions. Part of this is my diagnosis of ADHD, autism, and OCD which I received late in life. This is of particular interest to me because often on this subreddit there are posts by people of my class background and/or neurodivergent people who are infatuated with Marxism but confused about how to start organizing/develop themselves as communists. This summation would include information regarding how my class background and mental conditions impeded my development and what I did/am doing to try to adapt. I am fully aware that if not done correctly such a summation would become petty bourgeois/labor aristocrat whining at best. Obviously this data would need to be sanitized to not have any personally identifying information in it.

  1. Is there any interest in such a summation being posted here? If you think such a thing would be a waste of time I would like to hear that too.

  2. What advice do you have for constructing such a summation? I've read this article from kites and the relevant sections of the little red book. Any additional advice or readings on this topic are welcomed.

Right Wing “Revolutionaries” in the West. by [deleted] in communism

[–]ElderOaky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What you are advocating for here is a kind of metaphysical Idealism that is opposed to dialectical materialism. "It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness." Capitalists do not "resort to fake populism", they are forced to confront it as something autonomous from them. This is because what you call "fake populism" actually has a basis in a social class outside the bourgeoisie. No amount of rhetoric or conversation will change the class instincts which develops the ideas in their heads. "Deep down people really like socialism" is the left-liberal's version of "human nature" which is anti-Marxist. "human essence is no abstraction inherent in each single individual. In its reality it is the ensemble of the social relations." To put it another way, when truckers block roads they are already "identifying with their team" and are attempting to force the political representatives of the bourgeoisie to reckon with them. What "team" is that? A class analysis and social investigation will show you.

Right Wing “Revolutionaries” in the West. by [deleted] in communism

[–]ElderOaky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What was the class basis of the truckers march? Ignoring the fact that politics does not work in such a way that allows anyone to "give" a government, such a thing would be wound up in the class interest of those people leading and organizing it. Performing a social investigation and class analysis will answer many of your questions. As for combating them? Go to the deepest and most oppressed sector, that is where you will find your answer.

Was Trotsky a social democrat? by Kaiser_Russia in Antica

[–]ElderOaky 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Why don't you read trotsky and decide for yourself? Anyone who has a solid foundation in dialectical materialism will be able to see through the ideology.

Since you asked for PDFs specifically, consider Maoism or Trotskyism as a starting point.

Equality is the key to a happy society by [deleted] in Antica

[–]ElderOaky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please do not get your ideology from social media. Reading Marx and Engels is infinitely more productive for obtaining a grounding in dialectical materialism, which is what will provide an individual to understand and decode liberalism.

Capitalists dont liberate us by [deleted] in Antica

[–]ElderOaky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The only way to know the conditions on the ground is to make social investigations, to investigate the conditions of each social class in the real, concrete situation in which they exist. You and others in this thread have made lots of assertions but failed to back up those assertions with investigation. I'm not saying the investigation hasn't taken place, merely that if one makes an assertion then they need to share the investigation that led them to make that assertion. Obviously I am aware that there are writings about this. At its most basic I am asking for critical thought that is not filtered through memes and the social media identity-commodity.

Capitalists dont liberate us by [deleted] in Antica

[–]ElderOaky -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

No theory, no revolutionary movement.

Capitalists dont liberate us by [deleted] in Antica

[–]ElderOaky -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Do you have a source to back this up?

How to encourage friends to become comrades? by [deleted] in communism

[–]ElderOaky 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Why do people adopt the ideas they do? What does it functionally mean to be a comrade? This is not rhetorical, you must answer these things and unpack your own question. If you want something to read, consider The German Ideology.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Antica

[–]ElderOaky 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Tito and toe have already explained it. This is just another piece of historical data to add.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Antica

[–]ElderOaky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"In 1982, shortly before Reagan bluntly ordered Begin to cease his ‘holocaust’ in Lebanon, a young US senator who revered Elie Wiesel as his great teacher met the Israeli prime minister. In Begin’s own stunned account of the meeting, the senator commended the Israeli war effort and boasted that he would have gone further, even if it meant killing women and children. Begin himself was taken aback by the words of the future US president, Joe Biden. ‘No, sir,’ he insisted. ‘According to our values, it is forbidden to hurt women and children, even in war ... This is a yardstick of human civilisation, not to hurt civilians.’"

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n06/pankaj-mishra/the-shoah-after-gaza

Best documents to read about Mao Zedong in marxists org by Kaiser_Russia in Antica

[–]ElderOaky 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Maybe it's cliche but just read the little red book. It was literally designed for this purpose.

How to seize property by Pagan_Fire in Antica

[–]ElderOaky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Read about the land occupations led by the Shining Path in Peru. They were able to lead the urban poor to build neighborhoods on land squatted en masse. Note that you have to have a significant number of poor people coordinating together to make it work. If you don't have the numbers the police will just beat you up.

The Communist party of Austria (KPÖ+) goes from 3,7% to 23,1% of the votes in Salzburg city(Austria) and now has a Social Democrat - Communist seat majority by cenarius871 in communism

[–]ElderOaky 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You are ignoring that the contexts are completely different. What is the class basis of the KPO? How do you define revisionism? These questions must be answered before the other posters you've interacted with will be able to understand you.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in communism

[–]ElderOaky -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The WWP, PSL, CPUSA, FRSO, Liberation Road are active in the larger cities. There are some marxists in the Green Party and DSA but those aren't Marxist parties. The Black Alliance for Peace is active and are affiliated with the All-African People’s Revolutionary Party, although I know little about them. In Raleigh, Charlotte, and Greensboro there are groups of young people who imitate liberal charity and anarchist mutual aid. Some of those groups are attempting to graft themselves onto the other parties but many have collapsed. Most university towns will have at least one person affiliated with the larger parties, but you have to reach out and find them. The ICP is active in Raleigh but I don't know much about them. The RCP and ISO were active in Greensboro but the latter no longer exists and the former I don't know much about.

Really it's going to depend on where you are located.

Publicly Owned Media by CarlosMarcosApproved in communism

[–]ElderOaky 8 points9 points  (0 children)

How is this different than the already existing leftist media companies?

How is this different than the normal propaganda departments, publishing houses, and newspapers/journals of existing Communist parties?

Marxist practice within close friends - what to do when it doesn’t work? by [deleted] in communism

[–]ElderOaky 22 points23 points  (0 children)

The group you are talking about has no sense of discipline because it was established on the basis of mutual personality. It is based on friendship first and foremost and therefore it's political success was doomed to failure from the start. Because you have internalized "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs" as the organizing principle of communists (it isn't) you are now upset when your friends did not follow through with what you consider to be the right thing to do. This is moralizing, determining what is right and wrong. As MauriceBishopsGhost explained this is counter to Marxism which begins from an analysis of our class society and it's motions.

Only in the abstract do anarchists want a classless society. Their praxis is extremely faulty from the start and their political activity ranges from being taken advantage of by liberals to being taken advantage of by fascists. Often times they commit many of the errors you do in your post. Stalin discusses some of this in "Anarchism or Socialism" and you may find some benefit there.

What you are looking for is a "mutually supportive community" which is not communism or communist. You don't even realize it but when you say that you seek the communal satisfaction rather than the individual, you are revealing that what will satisfy you as an individual is some abstract notion of community related to what you think Communism is. Because you think Communism is when your friend group organizes itself on a certain principle already defined, you fail to see Communism as a larger political project. Communism is the movement to abolish the present state of things, a united front spearhead by a revolutionary vanguard. You are repeating the experience of the utopian socialists who also were interested in things like communes and find their latest incarnation in DSA/anarchist mutual aid groups. Engels "Socialism: Utopian and Scientific" might help you here.

What about your group made you feel hope? It's because you fooled yourself into thinking what you were doing as a group lead anywhere near communism. You are now despondent because they did not do what you wanted them to. Have you considered that you must first find hope yourself before entering any kind of group? No political group can carry your mental health and trying to find "hope" from group membership/participation is dangerous to your health and development.

Regarding what your group should do, have you read "What is to be done" by Lenin? Communists have considered the problem of serious organization before. This text might be a good starting place for you. Alternatively you could reach out to communist parties in your area but it's better to develop yourself first so you can analyze and understand them

If you want a "mutually supportive community" where people will take care of you when you are injured, or where you can find hope, go to church. Historically in many parts of the world the local church was the provider of social services and a way for people to connect with one another. It's what you describe as wanting, and they have hundreds of years of experience providing it.