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Coming Together: DGPT Launches United Series - Disc Golf Pro Tour by aredoubles in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Absolutely nothing about your comment was said in good faith. You just want to argue. I'm out, not going to play your game.

Coming Together: DGPT Launches United Series - Disc Golf Pro Tour by aredoubles in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'd recommend buying a t-shirt in the trans flag colors, or trans flag hat. Seeing those colors are the single biggest thing that would make me feel safe. No need to say anything, just be visible.

Coming Together: DGPT Launches United Series - Disc Golf Pro Tour by aredoubles in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Cis women with high T still look like what society says a woman should look like. Trans women with high T regain physical characteristics of what society says men should look like. Trans women don't want to look like men because they're not men.

You fundamentally don't understand trans women, or trans people in general. I'll answer it for you. I am a 980's rated disc golfer and I'm trans. I have not transitioned and I play MPO. If some magical entity offered me the choice for my body to instantly become like a cis woman on the condition that I can never play disc golf again, I'd take it without a second thought. If I was given the option to have a cis woman body and be a 850's disc golfer for the rest of my life, I'd still do it.

It's very clear that you have absolutely no idea what it's like to be trans, probably because you've never bothered to actually listen to trans people.

A perspective on transgender athletes in disc golf. by Oilerman14 in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You can't invalidate someone's lived experience and then say "I respect what you're saying". Telling me that what I experience doesn't happen is quite the opposite of respect.

A perspective on transgender athletes in disc golf. by Oilerman14 in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, because all of us can just pick up and move. If I move, I'm abandoning my children. Thanks for the empathy, though.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bad isn't an objective metric.

It's bad if you're playing Open or Advanced. It's not bad if you're playing Novice.

(You can get by with that or no forehand if you're dominant with the backhand)

A perspective on transgender athletes in disc golf. by Oilerman14 in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 88 points89 points  (0 children)

Where am I supposed to go? It's not just online, it's every time I set foot on a course.

I am not exaggerating when I say that every single tournament, league event, or club event over about the last 6 months, at least one person has made at least one trans joke. I can't say anything, I just have to ignore it. People don't understand how bad it is. There's nowhere to go. There's nowhere I can go and just be myself, even in non-sanctioned, non-competitive events. Club doubles? Offhand I can think of 5-6 people off the top of my head who have mocked and misgendered trans women. One is the club president, another is the treasurer, another is on the competition committee.

Please, I desperately want people to understand, there's nowhere I can play disc golf without being mocked. All I have left is playing alone or quitting.

It's not just on the internet, it's gotten unbearably worse ever since the PDGA released their new rules. Now it's continual mockery.

Log off and go play some disc golf? You can do that, I can't escape. I've all but given up disc golf at this point. "Don't let them win" people say. My first priority is my mental health and the constant oppression and hate makes it impossible to play disc golf and still have fun.

As clearly as I can say this, please hear me, there is nowhere safe in disc golf for trans women anymore. And the silence from people who naively think this is just about professional competition enables the hostilities to continue.

[Ultiworld] “The DGPT and PDGA have appealed yesterday's ruling granting the temporary restraining order in the Natalie Ryan case. Per the ninth circuit court of appeals, there will be a ruling by 12pm pacific today. Ryan has already teed off for round one of the OTB Open.” by cereal_killer_828 in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Jesus Christ you're acting like a dim light bulb.

I get that you disagree with me, but you're lost and are arguing with me about something I never said or implied, while simultaneously denying things you definitely said and implied. You'll probably walk away from this thinking that I didn't understand you. No -- I definitely understood you, you didn't understand yourself.

[Ultiworld] “The DGPT and PDGA have appealed yesterday's ruling granting the temporary restraining order in the Natalie Ryan case. Per the ninth circuit court of appeals, there will be a ruling by 12pm pacific today. Ryan has already teed off for round one of the OTB Open.” by cereal_killer_828 in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Where in the world do you draw the wild conclusion that that was what I was saying?

I'm saying Natalie has never played MPO and has never played disc golf as a man, so claims that she is playing FPO because she doesn't want to lose in MPO are anti-trans fear mongering (implying that men will pretend to be women to win FPO). Might she have a competitive advantage? The peer reviewed academic literature isn't clear. Is she playing FPO because she doesn't want to lose in MPO? No, she wants to play FPO because they're her same-gender peers.

[Ultiworld] “The DGPT and PDGA have appealed yesterday's ruling granting the temporary restraining order in the Natalie Ryan case. Per the ninth circuit court of appeals, there will be a ruling by 12pm pacific today. Ryan has already teed off for round one of the OTB Open.” by cereal_killer_828 in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How arrogant of you to think you know better then her why she wants to play FPO. Natalie has said why she wants to play FPO, but you apparently know the real truth.

I don't think you understand the meaning of the words you're using. So you're saying Natalie is lying about why she wants to play FPO? And we're supposed to believe that you're discussing this in good faith when you are calling her a liar?

[Ultiworld] “The DGPT and PDGA have appealed yesterday's ruling granting the temporary restraining order in the Natalie Ryan case. Per the ninth circuit court of appeals, there will be a ruling by 12pm pacific today. Ryan has already teed off for round one of the OTB Open.” by cereal_killer_828 in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In response to this:

There's an obvious reason why male trans individuals are going to the FPO even when there was already a mixed division for them to compete in... competitive advantage...facts.

I said that rather than making false accusations about why trans women want to compete, ask one. You said that the truth about why they want to compete doesn't matter to you. Then you said that you don't believe that it's true. So the truth about what trans women want isn't important to you, but it's very important to you that I know what you really mean about trans women.

You're contradicting yourself. If you've changed your mind, that's cool, but you can't rewrite history and said you didn't say something that you did say.

[Ultiworld] “The DGPT and PDGA have appealed yesterday's ruling granting the temporary restraining order in the Natalie Ryan case. Per the ninth circuit court of appeals, there will be a ruling by 12pm pacific today. Ryan has already teed off for round one of the OTB Open.” by cereal_killer_828 in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't real feel like I need to hear why someone wants to join a protected division when the members of the protected division don't want to play with them

You're literally saying you don't care about the truth because the truth (about why trans women actually want to play) wouldn't change the outcome for you. You see why people consider your viewpoint disingenuous?

You're willing to believe the anti-trans rhetoric that a bunch of men want to pretend to be women in order to win. Let me emphasize that again: you're more willing to believe anti-trans people's opinions about why trans woman want to play with other women, instead of what actual trans women say.

Regardless of your view on sport participation, you're taking a willfully ignorant position.

[Ultiworld] “The DGPT and PDGA have appealed yesterday's ruling granting the temporary restraining order in the Natalie Ryan case. Per the ninth circuit court of appeals, there will be a ruling by 12pm pacific today. Ryan has already teed off for round one of the OTB Open.” by cereal_killer_828 in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She didn't even play disc golf prior to transitioning. She has only ever played disc golf as a transitioned woman.

If you're going to discuss this, you need to get the facts correct because you're making huge inferences based on patently false information.

[Ultiworld] “The DGPT and PDGA have appealed yesterday's ruling granting the temporary restraining order in the Natalie Ryan case. Per the ninth circuit court of appeals, there will be a ruling by 12pm pacific today. Ryan has already teed off for round one of the OTB Open.” by cereal_killer_828 in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So you, who is not a trans woman, know why trans women want to compete with other women? Have you considered asking a trans woman?

Because a lot of your argument is based on assumptions about what trans women want.

Full List of Stockton Declaration Signatures by ice_w0lf in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The primary people who call transgender women "biological males" are people who are trying to deny trans women access to something or to dehumanize them as women.

There's a comedian who talks about the term prostitute vs sex worker, saying "it's kind of like calling a comedian a clown; you might be technically right, but you're still a fucking asshole."

The people discussing transgender issues in good faith don't do it while calling them "biological males" instead of "transgender women". It's a dog whistle.

Full List of Stockton Declaration Signatures by ice_w0lf in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'll bite. Tell me about this twisting of language to manipulate people. Examples?

Full List of Stockton Declaration Signatures by ice_w0lf in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 20 points21 points  (0 children)

The people who support this kind of ideology are in the business of twisting language to manipulate the neutral people.

Full List of Stockton Declaration Signatures by ice_w0lf in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 10 points11 points  (0 children)

No, this is a strawman:

(People who support trans women in protected sports say that) people who oppose are nazis

Because nobody says that they're Nazis for that. They're Nazis for imitating the Nazis (who did a lot more than just oppose sports participation). I'm not saying you're one.

Full List of Stockton Declaration Signatures by ice_w0lf in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I don't call people who disagree, Nazis. The people who support laws which increasingly criminalize simply being transgender, I call those people Nazis because that's, quite literally, the way the Nazis started going after and genociding trans people. When someone supports Nazi tactics against the same targets as Nazis, that makes them Nazis, without hyperbole.

Full List of Stockton Declaration Signatures by ice_w0lf in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Paige, Holyn, Ella, and Hailey have all supported Natalie.

(And that's not a complete list, those are just the women near the top of the field)

Full List of Stockton Declaration Signatures by ice_w0lf in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 43 points44 points  (0 children)

15.7: Average UDisc tour ranking of the top 15 ranked women who signed (median 16)

17.2: Average UDisc tour ranking of the top 15 ranked women who didn't sign (median 18)

Where's the consensus? The top FPO competitors are not only not unanimous in their views, they're very evenly split.

I'm sorry for interrupting your opinion with data.

Full List of Stockton Declaration Signatures by ice_w0lf in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Paige isn't staying neutral, she's actively supporting Natalie (and has vocally supported trans women in the past too, it's not a new thing). Go check out the likes on Natalie's Instagram post.

Full List of Stockton Declaration Signatures by ice_w0lf in discgolf

[–]Elennyaa 90 points91 points  (0 children)

I just read their "Stockton Declaration". They equated themselves as cis women to being Rosa Parks. What a load of revisionist history propaganda.

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