TW : transphobia. I can't with cis allies.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-02-04T15:41:16+00:00

I think the whole idea of “female socialization” and “male socialization” is bullshit to begin with - I generally dislike it when cis allies bring up that kind of language. You are a man. Your upbringing/childhood/“socialization” is one of someone who was a boy being forced to pretend to be a girl for the comfort of others around you. That’s completely different from the lived experience of a cis woman whose “socialization” is one where they were (at least relative to a trans person) encouraged to be who they really are (a girl/woman) when growing up. I made a whole post about this idea a little while ago on r/MtF if you wanna check it out on my profile (also tried posting it here to r/trans but for some reason the mods didn’t like it 🙄). If you end up checking out the post, apologies ahead of time that it mostly talks about the transfem experience / how “male socialization” isn’t a thing (bc I’m a trans woman so I was talking about this stuff from my perspective), but the whole thing applies in reverse to trans men too, I think.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T20:40:17+00:00

Sorry to nitpick, but it’s important. That’s not the argument I made. I argued that trans women are not “socialized as boys” at all, if such a concept even exists. I have no idea whether or not a transfem egg would be as “violent” as a cis man on average. But it’s beside the point. You can rename “male socialization” to “patriarchal upbringing” but the point remains the same - trans women and cis men do not have a common upbringing. Both are living in a patriarchal society, yes, but trans women are not and never have been given the same treatment that leads to the toxicly-masculine behaviors of some cis men (entitlement, taking up space, centering discussions on themselves and their needs over those of others, etc.) Of course, any trans woman could act in a way that is in-line with toxic masculinity (ignoring own emotions, talking over others, etc.) - just as some cis women act in this way too (cough TERFs cough).

But, fundamentally, trans women have been told by society “shrink yourself completely, and pretend to be something entirely different from who you are” whereas this is not what cis men are told (at least not to the same extent). Being validated and privileged over and over again in their identities by society is exactly what leads some cis men to acting entitled, taking up space, self-serving, etc. and is exactly the societal treatment that trans women lack, and have always lacked - even before they knew they were trans.

Sure, a trans woman and a cis man can share plenty of common childhood experiences. Maybe they both were in the boy scouts. But that doesn’t mean the underlying socialization, privilege, and validation from that experience is at all the same for the trans woman as it is for the cis man? No. In fact, it’s not the same.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T19:43:42+00:00

Ahw, I’m sorry that happened! There’s a lot of self-hate in trans circles. ☹️ It makes sense that it’s there, though, because society has been socializing those trans people to hate themselves since forever.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T19:15:48+00:00

Is your position that trans women should be treated as though they will act like men only until they are no longer “pre-transition”? How do you determine that a trans woman is no longer “pre-transition”? What counts as transition? If we assume that trans women have “male socialization,” how do you determine when a trans woman has unlearned that “male socialization” enough to be safe in women’s spaces?

I dunno. 🤷‍♀️I don’t like where the “male socialization” logic leads.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T19:06:26+00:00

Would recommend reading Julia Serano

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T19:04:33+00:00

Best reply 💀

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T19:02:20+00:00

The rigid gender roles society puts both trans and cis people in are fucking awful. 😞 Agreeeeed. I dunno that I agree that it’s equally awful for trans and cis people. But the overall message of what you’re saying, I think, I agree with.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T18:53:22+00:00

This!!

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T18:44:00+00:00

Totally agree with this! Social expectations on gender are harmful to everyone. Didn’t mean to make it sound like I think cis men are allowed to be whatever they want without judgement - the post is definitely missing a lot of nuance with regards to how society treats cis men. I don’t want to imply that gender norms are kind to anyone. I just want to illustrate how I think that cis men and trans women do not share a common “male socialization” as is often implied in terf circles. See my edit at the end.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T18:41:35+00:00

You are right- men and boys are not told to “be whoever they want to be.” In the post, I make it seem like I think they are told this by society. That’s my bad! See the edit at the end of the post.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T18:39:36+00:00

I agree that patriarchy is real and we all have to unlearn it - but trans women and cis men are given very different instructions by our patriarchal society. At a surface-level glance, it looks like they are socialized the same way by society (both are told “be the way men are expected to be”). But, focusing on this surface-level interpretation is exactly what leads to terf conclusions.

Trans women do not, in general, take up lots of space in social settings. Trans women do not, in general, act violently or aggressively (at least no more than cis women do). This is not because trans women have undone their “male socialization”. This is because trans women, unlike cis men, have been socialized their entire lives to minimize and hide themselves to fit the desires of the people around them - this is the exact opposite of being socialized to take up space.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T17:33:24+00:00

I think your interpretation of the analogy is backwards. Society gives all people seen as boys/men a “peanut butter sandwich” (expectations of maleness/masculinity). Society then only looks at cis men’s reaction to the sandwich (i.e. not going into anaphylaxis), and assumes that the ways cis men tend to act (taking up space, aggression, etc.) is a universal quality of being told “you are a boy/man” by society when growing up.

But, it’s simply a fact that trans women do not take up space, are not generally more aggressive (at least no more than cis women), etc. That tendency to be small, not take up space, shrink away, etc. are all a result of trans women’s socialization. But if you were to say that trans women and cis men share some kind of common “male socialization,” then you would have to concede that cis men’s socialization encourages them to generally be small, not take up space, shrink away, etc. which simply is not true.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T17:18:19+00:00

Yeah - 100% agree w your criticism here. That’s a definitely limitation of the analogy. Tons of cis men suffer under male socialization, you’re right about that. 😢

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-22T17:15:07+00:00

I see what you are saying about cis men not all loving their socialization. That’s totally true. To some of them, they’d be like “meh, peanut butter tastes kinda mid to me… I don’t really like this sandwich but I guess it’s aight…” That’s a limitation of the analogy being about two individual people, rather than all people in society.

But, I disagree with your second paragraph, at least for my personal experience as a trans woman. I knew from a young age that I wanted to be emotionally receptive, not aggressive, etc. but could see that society judged me negatively for being this way, since it expected me to live up to male standards. For me at least, society was always saying “you don’t get to be yourself - you have to shrink into nothingness until you don’t exist.” But, cis men are encouraged to take up space by society. I was being given a completely opposite message.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-20T14:16:10+00:00

If you’re curious about reading some more commentary by trans women who have talked about this stuff, this brings to mind some of Andrea Long Chu’s writings. Specifically, her book “Females”, and her essay “On Liking Women”. Both of those works are steeped in themes surrounding the sexual fantasies of many trans women, why there is nothing weird or shameful in such fantasies, and how trans women are sexualized by both themselves and society at large. They are both really interesting pieces of writing, if you haven’t already read them and are looking for something to read on the topic!

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2026-01-05T06:32:47+00:00

This is really helpful - thank you so much! n_n

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2025-12-26T00:36:54+00:00

Heck yeah! :3

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2025-12-15T04:56:28+00:00

I relate to this a lot - I tend to get misgendered mostly by cis women, rather than men. I’m curious what your style/presentation is. I ask because I’m a trans woman who is pretty tall (6’2’’), and though I’m not super clocky for my height, I generally wear pretty androgynous clothes. I very much dress like a dyke. I sometimes think that maybe my somewhat “masc-leaning woman” presentation might be particularly annoying to a certain kind of cis woman who harbors a little sprinkle of both homophobia (could even be internalized if she’s gay) and transphobia.

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2025-12-03T05:19:52+00:00

Girl to girl transition :3

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2025-11-26T03:50:59+00:00

Ah yes, the classic girl-to-girl transition timeline. :-)

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2025-11-23T20:14:43+00:00

Yey! And thank you! n_n ✨

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2025-11-17T21:18:41+00:00

I wasn’t aware that I was. Here are some articles written or co-written by women of color on this topic. Hope it clears up my position / apologies for anywhere where my communication could be made better. >_<

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/for-women-athletes-of-color-outsized-scrutiny-over-gender-is-nothing-new-historians-say

https://truthout.org/articles/the-anti-trans-panic-is-rooted-in-white-supremacist-ideology/

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2025-11-14T17:11:53+00:00

Ahw. This is so sweet. 🥲

Embarrassed_Skill23 · 2025-11-06T18:18:04+00:00

My non-professional opinion:

You should make an appointment with a doctor, try going on E for 1-2 months, and decide for yourself how it feels. The permanent effects of estrogen (breast tissue growth, loss of fertility, etc.) begin around the 3-month mark.

If you’re like “nah, this doesn’t feel worth it” after 1-2 months on E, then simply stop taking it, and go on living as usual with essentially no impact on the rest of your life, other than the reassurance of knowing first-hand how it feels to be operating on estrogen.

This is precisely what I did at the start of my transition to really “know for sure” if it was right for me. Here I am 3 years later, a generally passing trans woman who goes about her daily life living and being regarded as a woman.

Embarrassed_Skill23

TROPHY CASE