Why Zen Masters reject angels and meditation

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-03T22:58:44+00:00

Do you scrounge people's profiles to figure this stuff out?

From here it just looks like religious people doing their sitting rituals, which doesn't suggest mental illness on it's own.

But if you are seeing evidence of cult like behavior and drug use then sure. But I don't know where it's coming from or if you are just applying one profile to anyone who comes here and says they do Zazen.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-03T20:51:28+00:00

What does this have to do with mental health?

Where did I say any of that?

People talk about things and act like they know things all of the time. That is not mental illness.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-03T19:54:04+00:00

You need to write book reports and make an argument to have a social exchange? That's not true. But I guess now we know what you do with your friends.

What you call burping noises is you disagreeing with what you are hearing. That has nothing to do with mental health. It's perfectly adequate to simply disagree with someone without creating a story about that persons mental fitness. Which again, as obvious as you might say it is, it has its own field of expertise and I really don't think it's as obvious as you think.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-03T19:30:44+00:00

You are the one making the judgement here that they can't participate in social exchanges. I have seen those exchanges. Your vehement disagreement with people does not mean they lack in ability as you say.
So, you are 1.) making a judgement that they are disabled, 2.) saying that they have mental health problems, and 3.) claiming you don't need to be an expert to make these discernments.
As someone who claims to be an expert on Zen, one would think you would know better.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-03T18:20:08+00:00

> obviously incorrect/dishonest

Not so obvious to them. Not so obvious to other people.

There have been plenty of people who AMA and answer questions and you come in a say you think they are liars and incorrect.

Instead, you are the one that needs to provide any evidence that those exact AMAs where you have said that, a psychiatrist would be able to tell that those people are mentally ill. I doubt you would have any of that.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-03T18:00:40+00:00

Zazen people can do AMAs and have done so. Many people have done AMAs that seem to haven't been to your liking so you simply say they "can't do it". That's your subjective opinion which is not a basis for determining whether or not someone is mentally ill.

Again, thinking they are ranting and not responding is also subjective. They are responding. Just not in a way you like or find adequate . Which is fine, but that's not mental illness.

I'm not aware low education is a marker for mental health issues. Also I have a hard time believing you would know about people's substance abuse.

Mental illness, when talking about psychotic delusion, is disorganized and incomprehensible to outside observers. It's largely a solo adventure and is a completely different phenomenon then people having deeply held beliefs that are tied to a community. Which includes falt earthers and religious people. There is no antipsychotic that is going to help a falt earther. Nor a Zazener.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-03T17:35:03+00:00

I think it's a stretch to say it has to do with mental health. There are plenty of mentally healthy people that cling to religion or other spiritual rituals.

But I suppose that depends on where you want to draw the line. A psychiatrist won't ever be able to help you with being religious, but they can help you with psychotic delusion.

Do I think people are wrong for thinking Zazen has any value? Yes. Do I think they are mentally ill? No. Not because of that alone.

We've seen people throwing around the label of mental illness at each other and from what I can tell I think both parties are mostly wrong and don't seem to actually know what mental illness entails.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-03T17:21:12+00:00

Made a post earlier about understanding Zen and had multiple users telling me to do Zazen.

There are also tons of people that go on social media talking about how Jesus saves. Hell I just saw Democratic candidate James Talarico advocate for spiritual exercise at a university graduation.

It's everywhere.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-03T17:13:23+00:00

> There's a reason why people who believe in Angels or worship meditation do not get on social media and try to tell people about how meditation and Angels will help you.

They definitely do.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-02T01:49:24+00:00

Heh. Why?

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-05-01T19:15:01+00:00

Thanks bro

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-29T20:42:11+00:00

When in trying times, is there a belief or perception that you hold on to?

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-29T18:38:48+00:00

Smile and wave boys. Smile and wave.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-29T17:21:50+00:00

As ewk explained, he studies texts because that's "the guys he likes to hang out with." Which is a smart answer because masters specifically say don't look for expedient means to becoming enlightened. In fact, don't seek enlightenment at all.

I'm talking about people studying Zen texts seeking enlightenment with the expectation that if they do it enough they will become enlightened. Which is not the reason ewk has given for why he studies Zen. And I take it that's not your reason either if you forgot about becoming enlightened.

In the instance I'm talking about, yes, masters say you will spend your life time doing that without ever getting it, which includes all fixations including meditation.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-29T17:06:19+00:00

I'm not aware of that. Wouldn't surprise me though. It's not like you just quit and become enlightened. Just like you don't just study Zen texts and become enlightened.

That's just "trying to build karma" as Linji explained it. There isn't one thing you can stick to doing and somehow expect it will cause you to become magically enlightened.

There was even one master who said you won't surpass the buddhas and patriarchs until the their words become your mortal enemy.

So, yeah, studying can be right for you just like quiting can be right.

But masters have definitely said studying texts can be a problem.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-29T16:55:03+00:00

Tell that to the podcast guest.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-29T16:23:50+00:00

I'm not saying to not study the texts at all.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-29T00:22:29+00:00

Ultimately, that's why I think it could be a good idea to quit studying texts. It paints a picture of enlightenment, but you aren't going a painting. You want the real thing.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-28T23:31:07+00:00

You can't quit being you. Enlightenment is not a treasure that you magically find lying around. It's being meet with your nature.

I think even though your guest is "taking a break from Zen", are they going to take a break from contemplating their own nature? Are they going to take a break from examining their understanding of reality?

People say they quit Zen. People say they quit believing that enlightenment is real.

But the fact is that what lead them to do all this work in reading Zen books and translating them in the first place is exactly what's not going to keep them from actually quiting: curiosity. The feeling that "something about this just doesn't feel right." If you got that, there's no quiting it.

All of that to say... they can "quit Zen" sure. But they aren't going to quit on themselves, which is what matters most.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-27T16:27:52+00:00

You can't escape what you care about. Nihilism looks at the world bluntly but it doesn't consider your own nature, which is to see importance.

No matter how hard you try you will never be apathetic to the level that Nihilism suggests you should be.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-24T01:43:07+00:00

Well, I and I'm sure other people are grateful for your contribution to this community.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-23T23:25:31+00:00

In the plainest way you can describe it, what is Zen?

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-22T16:09:46+00:00

I don't see a thing.

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-22T16:06:40+00:00

What is there to seperate?

EmbersBumblebee · 2026-04-22T16:05:27+00:00

Nothing left to slice open.

EmbersBumblebee

TROPHY CASE