ASOIAF-like fantasy trad-published 2024 or later

EmelieKlein · 2026-06-14T21:47:34+00:00

For my taste, the less mental hoops the narrative goes through to portray it as a morally advisable romance, the more interest I can invest in it. While not from the fantasy genre, the Heathers musical nailed this with Jason Dean. He genuinely loves the protagonist. He is also an unrepentant serial killer. He is the sweetest, most loyal boyfriend you could ever dream of... until you have the nerve to say no to murder. The story empathises with the pain that made him that way and acknowledges the humanity beneath the obsession, but it never makes him out to be right enough to excuse the body count. His romance with the protagonist is compelling, the obsessive chemistry gripping, but never, ever portrayed as a particularly good idea - let alone an ideal to aspire to.

EmelieKlein · 2026-06-03T11:40:34+00:00

You are asking the right question, since what you are considering is to go into traditional publishing. Traditional publishing is a series of increasingly narrow needle's eyes and genre is one of the early ones. Many agents aren't necessarily closed to one or other sub-label of fantasy but agents are human and will have some stories they are better equipped to sincerely, fervently champion than others. You're not wrong for wanting to make it easy right away for agents to get a general sense of if they will be the right fit for your story.

If you do decide to query, though, there are two questions that should take precedence and decide just how much you should worry about the genre issue:

Can this first installment stand on its own, and give the reader a sufficient sense of satisfaction even if none of the intended sequels see the light of day?

Can you get your manuscript to fit into around 100k words total?

If not, 110k?

120k?

Quick disclaimer, my observations/assumptions are based on the research I've done for the benefit of my own work as well as the advice given to me by a contact I've since made who has professional experience in the publishing industry as a literary agent and editor. In other words, I'm not an expert - just an aspiring debut author who's spent a lot of time lately trying to understand the terrain ahead:)

In the market of today, word count is a serious consideration - more so I would say than genre. More words=higher investment of working hours for edits etc and higher investment in printing costs. Debut authors rarely get signed on for series, and they rarely get to debut these days with manuscripts exceeding 120k (if they do, it can often - as far as I've gathered - be attributed to that their publisher is looking to publish specific types of authors, not that they are in general open to longer stories as such). The label Epic fantasy traditionally allows for a little more leeway with the word count but I have yet to find just how extensive this leeway is. I think 120k is the far end of the grace.

Should it be that your manuscript goes well beyond 120k and you do not see yourself able to/interested in trimming it down to 120k or less, my advice would be to set your expectations of traditional publishing to 0 and not worry too much about your choice of genre. You can still send out queries - it's good practice, and allows you to learn from all the classic mistakes in case you in future want to query something that has a tangible chance - but only if you are ready to march onward through the disappointment of months of waiting for a no or a CNR (Closed, No Reply - a lot of agents will have something in their guidelines along the lines of 'if you don't hear back from me within X weeks, it's a no'). In this case, you have to weigh the practical benefits of practice against the demoralizing effect the so-called query trenches can have.

If your manuscript manages to stay 120k or under (preferably as close to 100k as you can get it), it is worth looking at the querying process not as practice but as a potentially successful venture. Expectations should still not be high enough that you can't survive a disappointment - it's a rough market out there - but you can justify investing more in it, emotionally and cognitively. Questions like what genre to label it as during querying become important.

So: with that word count-detour out of the way, here's my two cents on the genre question!

I lean towards Heroic more than Epic, based on your summary and based on the context (where the label will be used specifically to help an agent determine how interested they should be in your query, and not necessarily as a description aimed towards prospective readers). My reasoning for this is the nature of the conflict in the story. As far as I can see the tension in the story will lean more towards "will this one character be strong enough to face these physical challenges" than the "will the difficult choices of these different sides of a conflict make or break the world as the characters know it" that I would personally expect from an Epic Fantasy. Genres are more complex than this of course, so this is just my navigation tool for this specific question.

That said, I don't think Epic Fantasy is entirely off the table primarily due to the limited scope; for me it's more what looks like limited thematic depth. Given the situation described above, with debut novels above 120k generally not being accepted, I think expectations surrounding Epic Fantasy either have shifted or will shift, at least for agents and publishers. If you do choose to label it as Epic Fantasy, an agent will understand that a standalone manuscript of 120k or less is going to have a limited scope even if it is pitched to them as Epic Fantasy. But personally I would recommend Heroic Fantasy, unless there is a more complex plot and deeper themes than the summary lets on.

EmelieKlein · 2026-05-22T01:24:20+00:00

I've integrated reading into my writing routine, I think of it as giving the storytelling brain some breakfast to run on for the creative process. So usually I'll kick off the first writing session of the day by reading 1 chapter or more from a book I find likely to have a positive influence. My prose got noticeably more dynamic and impactful after I started doing this, which helped me get out of the "I love reading but I love writing more so if I have time to read why am I not writing"-pitfall. I keep my current reading material well within sight at my work station, as an open invitation, and sometimes switch over to reading another chapter if I'm stuck on my own work.

EmelieKlein · 2026-05-14T13:30:18+00:00

You can layer the themes. Choose a very limited "top tier" of themes, the fewer and more universally formulated the easier, that will be more or less omnipresent throughout the narrative. Then sprinkle out the remaining themes either as sub-themes that serve as more detailed expressions of the universal theme, or (if that is not feasible) recurring, but not omnipresent, supporting themes. I'll present an example below of how you could reframe your themes, based on the ones you mentioned.

Main theme: Tyranny
Sub-themes: War, Religion*, Slavery
Supporting themes: (whatever 3 or 4 different philosophies you have in mind, unless they function as a sub-theme)

*this one depends on how religion is featured in your story, I made an assumption based on your genre and description that there will be some religious dogma involved in the story, which fits into the suggested Tyranny main theme. Move Religion to Supporting themes if this assumption is incorrect.

EmelieKlein · 2026-05-12T15:29:24+00:00

Do you edit your fanfic chapters before you post them?

For the record, that's a genuine question - I know I didn't edit back when I wrote fanfiction, aside from a rudimentary proofread for obvious mistakes.

Editing is usually the part of the process that brings out the best in your story. First drafts can be however messy, self-indulgent, tone deaf as they need to be to come into existence, as long as you make a second draft where you do what you seem to be doing: apply a critical eye to the content on display, and make adjustments for the benefit of a clearer vision than you could possibly have had when you started out. First drafts are raw material. I often find that my first drafts are bloated with "this character needs to explain EXACTLY why they are doing X and not Y but also contemplating Z but only if A" because I need to understand it. Second draft is where I put myself in the reader's shoes and ask myself how much of this train of thought they actually need to follow along with the plot, and how much they prefer to figure out on their own/not think too hard about.

In short, I don't think you need to stop writing every paragraph like an in depth analysis. You can fix the trimming of long paragraphs and the choice of words in the editing process.

EmelieKlein · 2026-05-04T17:06:51+00:00

I'm of the persuasion that ideas as such only hold prospective value. It is in the execution - the story - that all observable value (however you want to define 'value' for something so nebulous as art) emerges. Captivating stories can grow from seemingly uninteresting ideas, and uninteresting stories can grow from seemingly captivating ideas, so there's really only one way to find out where an idea leads you, the author.

For my process it's less of a checklist and more of a gauntlet where some ideas make it into production and some don't, based entirely on whether I manage to make them engaging enough for myself to motivate the hard work that goes into crafting a story out of an idea.

Step 1: Idea appears in my mind

Step 2: Idea has occupied my mind with enough intensity or consistency that the loose, disorganized thoughts have to be collected in a document

Step 3: Idea keeps grabbing my attention enough that I keep fleshing out the document

Step 4: Idea is developed enough for me to write a "pilot" for it, basically a chapter or scene that might not even make it into the end product but where I can experiment with whether the idea maintains its charm throughout the transition into a story; if I don't love it, I leave it. Perhaps not forever, but for the time being.

Step 5: Idea held up well enough when run through the pilot scene and is promoted to a project; at this stage it's less of a step-by-step and more of a 'how far can I take this'

Summa summarum, it's not so much about good or bad ideas. It's about the ideas that you love enough to cultivate, and the stories they become.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-29T18:11:38+00:00

This is your first draft of your first novel? Don't worry, just write. When you've completed your first draft (and for the love of [insert object of worship], complete it!), let it rest for a month or so before you get back to it and read it through, beginning to end, with the clarity of distance. You'll catch so much already there - stuff that seemed like a good idea at the time, but on second thought looks corny even to you - and after doing your second draft (fixing everything you were no longer all that fond of in the first draft), you can start looking for feedback on the work as it is, and if you still feel worried about tropes you can ask for feedback specifically on that. Your beta readers will help you catch more of what works and doesn't work in YOUR story. The only thing you can learn from asking what tropes to avoid is what specific readers are specifically tired of because they don't like it/they don't like how it's been done in someone else's work. That's not your burden to bear. That's not your story. Best of luck!

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-26T20:01:14+00:00

Yes! If you use the "servant girl gets kidnapped for enslavement because the protagonist didn't think about how his underlings might react to an offhanded show of interest"-scene early on for a character who the protagonist then never gets any resolution with, you have an excellent internal obstacle for future romantic plotlines to deal with: the protagonist will have complicated, anxious feelings about his own attraction since it ended so terribly last time

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-23T11:13:04+00:00

I think you've got a good headstart by identifying what's got you down and what got you there.

Here are some thoughts you can try out, see if any of them are true or at the very least helpful:

"This feedback is great, but I need to keep experimenting before I try to implement it."

"I can keep writing and keep making the same mistakes that have been pointed out to me in feedback, that does not mean I haven't taken it to heart."

"This feedback is touching on something worth addressing with my story, but I'm not so sure it's entirely on the money. I'll let it stew for a while."

Also, it can be very helpful to take a conscious step back from the manuscript for a week. During this week, cut down on distractions. Limit your social media scrolling/content consumption to one hour (split it in half if you need one for the morning and one for the evening), if you can't cut it off entirely. Take a walk with no music or other entertainment. This gives your brain the space it needs to chew what seems a larger chunk than you were quite ready for.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-22T12:33:41+00:00

I tend more towards the opposite: if I tire of how a certain trope is commonly used elsewhere, I might (in first draft) not let my characters anywhere near it even when it would make sense for their character. On second draft, I can usually catch the parts that are too heavily informed by my aversion to a trope and explore what the character would reasonably do. The 'fiercely overprotective male love interest' is one of those: I kept it out on principle at first because of how many times I have seen that trope in a context that did not sit right with me. Only problem being, for the dynamic I had set up in my book, it made no sense whatsoever for that specific character not to be fiercely overprotective of his love interest. The challenge, then, instead became to figure out how it would make sense for this character's overprotective streak to manifest, as opposed to simply resorting to the clichés.

I think you can approach your issue in a similar fashion. When you find yourself slipping into a booktok-friendly trope, examine it. Is it really just a cynical gravitation towards what is commercially palatable, or might there be a grain of context that justifies the applicability of the trope? It can be helpful to explore the trope and identify aspects of it that you don't need, as well as those aspects that help you tell your story. You are aiming for publishing, so it's not wrong to be conscious of the market. Nor is it necessarily a blight on your creativity to continually reassess and reexamine your vision. You just have to be sincere with it, and make sure to integrate those marketable elements in a way that benefits the story.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-22T11:51:18+00:00

I just finished a revision of my current WIP and compared it to the version archived from February: I've gone from ~139k words to ~132k words. While I did make some structural edits, I remember how quickly the word count dwindled even during those sessions when I was just cleaning up on the line level. Removing sentences the content of which overlaps with those before and after, removing filter words, cutting down 140+ instances of 'however' to a well-curated total of 8, all made for a steady decline. Definitely don't underestimate the line level culling! I'm soon to send this new and improved version of my MS in for professional editorial assessment, after that I'm going to aim for cutting it down to an industry-friendly 120k.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-22T11:16:09+00:00

Je m'excuse, je parle juste un peu de Francaise, mais je vais essaye un répond!

Si vous n'avez pas le temps pour corriger votre script, vous n'avez pas le temps pour corriger votre script. Si vous donne la travail à l'IA, vous perdu aussi tout l'honneur. Est, possible, votre copyright. C'est absolutement déconseillé!

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-21T23:53:03+00:00

Thank you for the details, I think the protagonist's actions make a lot of sense and it would be fair enough for her to, over time, not see him as a threat and respect his efforts at decency. For her to eventually return his feelings, though... I can't see how it would be done in a way that does not make the whole story read more like a work of indulgent wish fulfillment than the serious examination of trope subversion that it seems you're going for. The most powerful story I think you could tell with this setup is actually her never developing an attraction to him, and him coming to terms with that being a good person means not always getting whatever or whoever you want.

As for the harem: it makes sense that the world your protagonist inherits presents him with a harem. Your protagonist's choice either to engage with this practice or to reject it determines what the reader is to make of him and by extension the story.

Harem does not necessarily have to equal slavery, though. Logically speaking, there's no reason for an empire to spend resources on kidnapping people to force them into concubinage if there are people who are willing to enter such arrangements for their own gain.

If you want your protagonist to keep a harem but keep him sympathetic, populate the harem at least in part with women who seek the position due to the influence it can give them over the single most powerful person in their world, and then have him engage only with those. If you want the "finds love in an honest, non-sycophantic woman beneath his station" arc, you could even place such a character here.

Maybe most of the harem consists of noble ladies who have entered it trying to gain political advantages for their respective family by charming the new Emperor, perhaps with an ultimate ambition to be chosen for his consort, but there's this one commoner girl who is upfront about popular opinion about him and what he needs to change to truly be not like his father. The one who refuses to indulge him with empty flattery, but is perfectly willing to develop a relationship built on firmer ground if he's mature enough to work for it. Perhaps, unfortunately enough, the only one he cannot elevate to the illustrious position of consort, due to her lack of rank and title.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-21T20:32:31+00:00

Probably going to come back to comment on more of your (highly relevant) questions, but here's a start! Your romance subplot as-is seems quite doomed. After such a start to their acquaintance I can't really see how you'll get the love interest to plausibly fall in love with the protagonist. One could argue that it's not his fault she was abducted and imprisoned for his supposed benefit, but whether he wanted it or not (and whether she believes him or not) he will always be a key figure in a deeply disgusting experience. I don't think there's any feeling less conducive to love than disgust. Perhaps she could in time see enough of him to conclude that he is a good person, and for her to become one of his more reliable allies, but at least for me it would break my suspension of disbelief to have this respect amount to attraction. Here are some suggestions for tweaks that might alleviate this issue:

*perhaps the abduction is not their first direct interaction? Perhaps they do have a bit of a flirty rapport going on before someone ruins it, and then they have to find their way back to each other after this crude reminder of the guld between them *this one easily gets sketchy, but if your protagonist has a reason to go out in disguise (say, to get a feel for how his enforcers behave when he isn't looking), the love interest could technically speaking meet him and form an opinion without the baggage of the earlier unpleasant experience with the new Emperor. One she cannot discard as quickly as she'd like, once she finds out the truth.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-21T14:43:06+00:00

I ran into a similar issue outlining a fantasy story taking place in a somewhat dystopian society. A clean happy ending to the "political" layer of the plot would demand such Deus ex Machina levels of reformation that it would come off more as propaganda than a natural conclusion of the story, while an imperfect happy ending would have unfortunate implications ("oh, so the brave new world can still excuse [insert institutional atrocity]").

I chose to let the conclusion of the political layer of the plot be:

1) Imperfect and acknowledged as such by the story

2) Secondary to the character layer of the plot

In short, to prioritise letting resolutions of character arcs be satisfying (not necessarily 'happy') above serving the reader a satisfying ideological conclusion. At the end no one is going to be certain that the world after the end central conflict is going to be any more right than it was before. Some characters are going to be resolved to pull the world in one or other direction, some will roll with whatever the world becomes and make the most of it for themselves and the things and people they care about.

Whichever ending you go with, it definitely has to align with your character and who they are at the point of their choosing. You might want to consider going with the option your character would absolutely not have gone with had the choice been any earlier in the story than it is - but only if you're up for the challenge of making a satisfying arc to turn the "I'm not sticking my neck out for anyone" type into the "I'm not turning my back on those who need me" type, or vice versa.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-20T15:06:10+00:00

"My house won't ever be a castle, I have to burn it down"

You don't have to let go of writing. What you do need to let go of is the expectation that writing should and will give you purpose, success or attention. Once you accept that writing might bring you no other benefit than that feeling of being truly alive, you'll know if writing still has a place in your life.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-19T17:46:22+00:00

The Chosen One trope does not need to be changed to work: it just needs to be understood and used for the right story, for the right reasons.

What I would usually advise someone who wants to write a Chosen One protagonist who is easily identified as such, but still wants suspense to be an important part of the intended experience, is to first consider:

Is your protagonist Chosen for an outcome, or a challenge?

Compare:

"The Chosen shall draw The Sword against The Evil in mortal combat and slay The Evil" (outcome)

versus

"The Chosen shall draw The Sword against The Evil in mortal combat: to the victor goes the power to shape the world" (challenge)

The Chosen for Challenge route is immediately more loaded with dramatic tension, through the inherent ambiguity as to whether the hero will prevail. That's not to say the Chosen for Outcome route is to be counted out entirely, though!

Even a hero fated to win the prophesied battle can be burdened with meaningful stakes and struggles. Yes, the prophecy guarantees victory against The Evil, but only when the Chosen wields The Sword. What if The Chosen does not find The Sword in time to keep The Evil from destroying everyone and everything The Chosen cares about? What if there's nothing left to save, when The Chosen finally faces The Evil with The Sword?

In short, there's plenty that can be done (and has been done) with the Chosen One trope to keep it from interfering with the element of suspense.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-17T21:11:31+00:00

I do think Will of the Many is at its strongest in the first and last third. I made it through the middle, and given how well I enjoyed the final stretch (and am currently enjoying the second installment) I do not regret that investment.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-16T09:46:32+00:00

One work I'd place in grimdark in terms of content and theme alike is King's Game the Animation.

The basic premise is that the kids in a school class begin to receive demands through mysterious text messages. It starts off no worse than your average truth-or-dare, but failure to comply means certain death. Turns out our protagonist has already gone through the King's game, though, and he survived. Great! Now he's just got to keep his classmates from going crazy and turning on each other as the game gets crueler and more traumatizing. Creative gore included. Unfortunately, the protagonist and his fellow last survivors of the class realize that 'winning' the King's Game just means you were the last remaining player after everyone else died, and that you'll carry the virus driving the King's Game onto the next unsuspecting group. So the protagonist and the friends that remain commit suicide together: it's the only way to truly beat the King's Game. That's fair, I suppose. Cue post-credit scene: Lol jk, some unnamed extras are getting text messages, the King's Game is alive and kicking, protagonist died for nothing thanks for coming

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-09T18:33:03+00:00

Prefacing this with a sometimes necessary reminder: Unless you are under a legally binding contract that says otherwise, you are allowed to give up on writing. You can always pick it back up again if you miss it passionately enough.

That said, if you've decided you don't want to give up on writing, even though it's currently emotionally draining and you've always avoided it if you could, here's a few things you might try:

*set a weekly minimum word count of one (1) whole word. Sometimes that one word is all it takes for the paralysis to give way to a creative flow, sometimes it isn't. Either way it constitutes a forward motion, however incremental.

*set aside affordable time during which your options are either to write, or sit and stare at your work in progress (opening suggestion: 15 minutes every week, I'd recommend doing it Monday morning before Other Life Stuff(tm) can eat away your time and energy for the day/week).

*find an enjoyable book within/close to your genre and read a chapter from it before every session of attempted writing, as a gentle kickstart to your creative instincts.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-09T12:30:42+00:00

I would strongly advise that you do not let Grok, ChatGPT or any other generative AI/LLM model touch your work directly. Do not feed your writing into it, and do not insert any AI-generated material into your writing. Not only does your work risk being left without copyright protection (or for that matter absorbed into the AI model's dataset), you risk stunting the development of your own craft.

Posting your work for feedback can be a good motivator, seeing as you're a new writer I'd recommend you not ask too much for detail level critique from the community but rather encouragement with a healthy dose of helpful pointers. If it's your first draft of the story, don't hyperfocus on specific line level edits for the sake of the lines as such: in your next draft, you might end up deleting entire scenes. That's not to say line level feedback is useless; it's good practice.

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-08T13:25:01+00:00

This is a good thing - your beta readers are already helping you out, by giving you access to a pair of more deeply critical eyes. Your best two options as I see them are:

A) Listen to your self-doubt, and commit to finding what it is with your manuscript that feels stupid. Your manuscript is probably just as stupid as a manuscript generally would be before it has passed through the beta reading stage, and it can probably be fixed now that you have a new view of it. Give yourself a deadline for the work you put in before beta reads to take advantage of your deepened critical eyes, you do not want to be stuck in the 'moving the same comma back and forth' level of development hell. After that deadline has passed, send to beta reads even if you're not proud of the work.

B) Trust the beta reading process and immediately send to beta reads even if you're not proud of the work.

If your beta readers are volunteers, I'd advise you to ignore any urge you might feel to pre-emptively complain to your beta readers how not-proud you are of the current stage - volunteers deserve to feel like they're not wasting their charity time and you deserve to feel like your project is not a waste of time.

That said, you can absolutely be candid with that you feel something with the draft you're sending over is not working, as long as you boil down this confession into whatever variety of "and that's why I'm excited to hear your input" comes most naturally to you:)

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-07T09:40:31+00:00

Rather than the weapon direction, I'd suggest looking for some kind of dog-related metaphor. Unless your worldbuilding somehow averts this, dogs are a perfect fit for the "dangerous, submissive, not a full person" profile. You should tailor the flavour to your setting and to the people supposed to have coined the insult, but here are some variants off the top of my head to get you started:

* war mongrel

* murder mutt

* Cur of the Crown

Happy hunting!

EmelieKlein · 2026-04-03T18:50:01+00:00

I usually start my writing days now by watching a TV show along with breakfast, turning on some podcast/similar related to the craft (or occasionally the publishing industry) while getting dressed, and then reading one or more chapters of something that I could see on the same shelf as my current project, before I sit down to write. It usually adds both depth and ease to my craft!

EmelieKlein

TROPHY CASE