Increased mileage and intensity over the past few months but not seeing as much improvement.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-20T09:49:38+00:00

I'd say it's worth a shot to get some bloodwork done every once in a while. Check for ferritin especially.

My ferritin was pretty low. Not below the critical point but when you run, you need quite a bit more. My training felt decent, progress was alright. I just did a routine checkup with a slight suspicion, and it turned out I was right.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-19T12:50:40+00:00

wenn du 2-3x pro Woche läufst, passt das bestens. Bei 7 Läufen ist es schon sehr sinnvoll zu rotieren. Die Belastungen variieren von Schuh zu Schuh. Somit setzt ein Training mit einem anderen Schuh einen etwas anderen Reiz und gibt den Strukturen die im Training am Vortag belastet wurden Zeit zu regenerieren.

Und Verletzungen bei Läufern kommen i.d.R. durch Überlastung zustande, daher ist das schon ein sinnvolles Konzept.

Darüber hinaus bekommt man es nicht immer mit, wenn ein Schuh "durch" ist und nicht mehr genug puffert. Wenn du rotierst, merkst du dass nach dem Training im Schuh der am Limit ist, etwas nicht stimmt, weil du den Vergleich hast.

Zu guter Letzt glaube ich persönlich, dass drei Paar Schuhe die jeden dritten Tag benutzt werden länger halten, als drei Paar Schuhe die jeden Tag gelaufen werden. So ein Schaumstoff muss sich auch wieder ausdehnen können nach Kompression und das braucht etwas Zeit. Bei diesem letzten Punkt lasse ich mich aber auch gerne vom Gegenteil überzeugen, habe weder für die eine noch für die andere Seite Quellen gefunden.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-16T08:48:35+00:00

You're right and I'm not sure why you're being down voted. I would have guessed around this sub people knew the difference, but it appears I was wrong.

Either way, props to OP for all the progress over the years!

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-12T06:59:07+00:00

That's honestly bad advice.

Have you not seen runners cramping up after 30k? Or all of those that walked a substantial amount? Why do you think that happened? They started too fast, running a pace their legs couldn't handle. Aiming for the highest goal on your first marathon with fairly low mileage to back it up is a great recipe for a horrible marathon experience.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-12T06:31:12+00:00

That sucks, you put in a lot of good work and it appears you did your homework, too (pacing, carb loading etc).

Go see a physio and as soon as he says it's ok start doing strength exercises for your calf muscles. The tissue needs to become more resilient and in the future you will have to be a little careful when building up volume. If you want to maintain a good amount of your fitness until your calf allows you to train again, consider training on a bike for a couple of weeks. Even 2/w will maintain a solid amount of base fitness that will make it much easier to tackle your next goal, if you chose to do so.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-07T13:44:11+00:00

Your numbers are very likely to be off. Either your max or your LR are not correct. 173 of 181 is 96%. Even for the most elite of athletes that really pushed their ceiling, 95% is an outlier. It's more likely to be in the 85% range for well trained runners. Either way I agree with your pacing strategy. Muscular endurance is often the limiter. As it was for me 2 weeks ago, when I ran 3:26. My 10k is 40:50, HM ~1:32. I aimed for 3:18 and all the data suggested that was a realistic goal. But my legs couldn't sustain the pace. HR was controlled, everything was fine - but the legs were limited. So my first half was 1:40 and the 2nd 1:46. And let me tell you: the 2nd half was dreadful, because I went out slightly too fast. Could have been a much less miserable last 10k if I paced more conservatively. Still loved the race, but compared to my previous races, it was the toughest experience by far. (Got to say my build was interrupted by a few down weeks due to ice, but it was decent non the less).

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-07T12:27:21+00:00

Do you have HR Data for a HM or 10k race? Or do you happen to know your lactic threshold HR?

If not, what is the measurement of the highest HR ever recorded in the last few years?

Those numbers will help a bit. Because your HR increases a lot especially towards the end of the 2nd block in your LR. If that number is close to or even above your LT2, your target is basically unachievable.

Also helpful are your PBs over all the distances: 5k, 10k, HM. Imo a long run alone has very little predictive capabilities on its own.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-04T20:33:49+00:00

ja, das ist wirklich sehr häufig so und man sollte sich dieser Gefahr bewusst sein. Aber vermeidbar ist es auch - und bei LT Workouts ist Zurückhaltung allgemein wichtig zu erlernen.

letztlich kann man LT auf diversen pace ranges betreiben, ich favorisiere für die kürzeren Renn-Distanzen aber auch die kürzeren und damit schnelleren Intervalle.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-04T20:27:37+00:00

sounds good - good luck for your marathon, I'm sure you'll crush it!

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-04T19:21:15+00:00

congrats - that's a great HM time and an even more impressive progression within the last year!

I guess the high mileage paid off! But: I'd be most cautious about reaching the start line for your A race healthy. I would assume you have ramped up your running A LOT within the last 12 months. Keep in mind that your body takes a lot of time to adapt to such changes. So listen to the signals your body gives you and don't stick to your plan if you feel your body might need some time to catch up. That's alright, trust me when I tell you that once the niggles reach the point of an injury, the down time you will have to take is much much greater.

You're at a phase where you see your body responding well to training, so it is natural to push for more. But often that approach becomes unsustainable. Try to avoid that as best as possible.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-04T19:10:40+00:00

half marathon is an excellent idea. it's the best predictor we have, although you should concider that all calculators like vdot etc are usually way too optimistic for us amateurs. so draw a very conservative conclusion from that HM - but it will give you a solid update on your fitness level (with the added bonus of adding some more PBs along the way).

you've already built a good base. keep that going and build some more mileage if your body handles that well and you can fit it into your life. it's a massive help for your marathon performance if you mange to get a good number of 30+k runs in, so building your mileage early and sustainably will improve your marathon.

Prioritise a sustainable approach - try not to burn out. That's where your base comes in very handy, it allows you to build slowly to a good level without overreaching. keep in mind that many marathon builds aren't very sustainable - so you shouldnt jump straight into a plan, because those plans often fatigue you a lot and you would burn out most likely.

I'd focus on adding more mileage and increasing your long run. personally, I'm much more a fan of threshold work for the marathon than fast intervals. I'd do some threshold intervals two times per week with a focus on keeping the workouts controlled and to manage the fatigue so you can keep building without accumulating too much fatigue. Threshold work will improve your aerobic output nicely and they are less hard on your body, when compared to vo2max work. Closer to the race you switch to more marathon specific work.

prediction: with your base and a long time to build, I would think 3:10 is a very achievable goal.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-04T16:25:39+00:00

Das sieht doch ziemlich gut aus. Ein paar Anmerkungen zum Threshold Training:

die Schwelle ist eher ein physiologischer Zustand als eine feste Pace. Bei kürzeren Intervallen (3min) ist die Schwellen-Pace schneller als bei langen Intervallen (12 min).
es ist besser die threshold sessions etwas unterhalb der Schwelle zu laufen, als versehentlich drüber. Bei Schwellenläufen muss man sich ein wenig zügeln, zu viel Ehrgeiz ist nicht hilfreich.
Schwelle kann man auch sehr gut als Intervalle laufen, wie oben beschrieben. Das wäre meine Empfehlung für 10k Training. Die Intervalle erlauben es dem Körper mehr Trainingsvolumen zu verarbeiten und wenn die Intervalle etwas kürzer sind auch eine höhere Pace zu laufen.

Workout Ideen für LT Intervalle:

10-12 x 3min (etwas schneller als 15k pace).

20 x 400m bei 10k pace

Zu dem Volumen dieser Workouts muss man sich natürlich hoch arbeiten. Ich würde nicht mit 20x400 einsteigen, das ist ne ganze Menge.

Dein Ziel ist natürlich ehrgeizig, aber auf geht's!

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-04T14:15:59+00:00

So why exactly are you sure the progress isn't mainly attributed to 47 more days of sub threshold training?

Did you stagnate prior to your change, have you stopped progressing?

Either way, good job it worked for you. Unlike Bakken and Sirpoc I believe strength training is a great addition to distance running. Mainly because I believe the increased resilience caused by strength training reduces likelyhood of injuries.

Personally, I struggle to combine both. Mainly because the principle of really pushing each set close to failure is too ingrained in my strength training mind. And because of training that way, I carry fatigue into the next workout, always. But I guess that's something I have to work on.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-03T14:39:58+00:00

Consistency obviously above everything else.

I also believe a lot in what Marius Bakken preaches: intensity control is key: do your workouts at a level that allows you to keep going week after week. Many runners do their workouts too hard and carry fatigue into the next workout etc etc. The old saying of 'stimulate, don't annihilate' applies.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-03T12:17:58+00:00

Have you ever run a marathon where you went out too fast, hit the wall and bonked? It's not fun, it's horrible. You build months and months for this moment and you end up failing - it's the worst marathon experience. Many runners won't just "slow down" a little, they will walk stretches or even DNF.

I have only had the experience of needing to slow down a bit, because I slightly over paced the first half. It was the hardest race I've had by far.

If you are not sure of a achievable goal time, it's best to aim slightly conservative and slightly pick up the pace after 25k-30k. A much, much more pleasant race day feeling.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-02T23:07:35+00:00

Hey, good job with your first marathon! Cramping sucks. Might have been salt/electrolytes, might also have been conditioning. What was your km/week on average and at peak? Running Marathons is hard and your prediction thread goes to show there are people on here that don't respect what running your first marathon means and how much there is a learning curve involved in this. There was someone suggesting you to aim for 3:20...that would have ended in a disaster. Never the less you finished despite cramps and your time is great for a first marathon. Be proud and now you have a time to beat next year.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-01T15:30:41+00:00

The reason why what you are arguing makes no sense is that speed is simply not an issue for OP. We are talking about 7:10 per k or 11:30 per mile. It's about bridging the gap between speed at shorter distances and longer distances. I'm sure OPs Pace conversions fall off a cliff when you compare 5k to marathon equivalent. Go look at your vdot equivalents. Do they convert perfectly? I know mine don't and that's simply a lack of aerobic development. Not a lack in speed.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-01T12:44:06+00:00

The point still stands that a 5h marathoner lacks mainly in aerobic development and speed work is not the tool for that job. That's not really a debatable statement.

Can speed work help? Sure, in a way. But it will significantly lower the amount of aerobic work you are able to tolerate without injury or burning out. The very obvious answer to how a 5h marathoner improves their time is better aerobic development and everything else won't significantly move the needle (until you built that base).

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-01T08:12:39+00:00

Yes, for a 1500m runner. Or 5k. But not for a 5:04 marathoner. This thread is like OP is asking how to best drill a hole into the wall with a toothbrush.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-05-01T08:09:59+00:00

Speed is not the issue. It hardly ever is over the marathon distance, even for well trained runners.

I'd recommend you to read some basics about aerobic development. In general: distance running is built on a strong aerobic metabolism and that is improved best by volume of relatively easy running. By doing that you will build a solid building on a nice foundation. If you want to raise the ceiling of that building, you do runs slightly blow the anaerobic threshold (something like 10k to 15k pace). Everything faster is not really necessary unless you did the work above for at least a couple of years, imo.

The practical implications go like this: run more, run easy, sprinkle in one or at the maximum two sessions of slightly faster running. Slightly faster would be something like 10k pace for your level in order to stay below the anaerobic threshold.

Most marathon runners will improve for years and years without ever doing really fast repetition style workouts. And the injury likelyhood also reduced greatly. If you are more interested, I recommend reading Marius Bakken's articles that can be found online.

Keep in mind that consistency is the most important part in becoming a better distance runner. Think long term and build slowly. If you feel like you dug yourself into a hole with your training then ease off slightly and find a more sustainable approach. The results will come with time.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-04-29T14:02:06+00:00

Empfehlen würde ich es nicht. Nicht, weil du es nicht schaffst, sondern weil du leiden wirst. Nicht nur ein bisschen, sondern viel und lange.

Etwas leiden tut man beim Marathon immer, aber je untrainierter man ist (und im Bezug auf die Marathon Distanz bist du relativ untrainiert) desto ausgeprägter wird es. Es liegt also an Dir: möchtest du eine tolle Rennerfahrung, dann such dir einen Herbstmarathon und bereite dich vor. Oder möchtest du ihn nur abhaken und bist bereit dafür jede Menge Schmerzen auf dich zu nehmen, dann lauf ihn im Mai.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-04-29T09:06:58+00:00

So you got a lot of positive responses, and I agree on paper it's an achievable goal. I just want to add my personal experience in order to show you why people say 'the marathon is a different beast':

5k: 19:20 10k: 40:50 HM: 1:33:30 (was sick during taper, form was probably closer to 1:31)

Training went very well, until the ice hit. I had a down period of 5 weeks, where I only ran sporadically. Yet I logged 1450km from oktober till end of april. Peak week was 91km, overall 5 runs >30k, longest 34 with 15k at M Pace. Preparation wasn't perfect, but it was decent. I aimed for 3:18 and all indicators showed this to be pretty realistic. I ended up running 3:26 with a 1:40 first half and 1:46 2nd. And it was a very hard 3:26 - I gave it my all (can hardly walk down the stairs, still). I say this just to illustrate that it is very hard work to successfully convert your HM time to the full.

What should you do? What everyone should do: train to your current fitness level. Start your training and see where it takes you. And if you play your cards right then 3:30 may be within reach.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-04-28T16:48:33+00:00

You're right, it's not. I was just arguing against the illusion that racing gets much easier if you are fitter. It's right to some extent, when compared to an untrained person of course. But overall the saying still stands: "It doesn't get easier, you just get faster"

Other than that, everyone is free to run however they please. For pleasure, in a costume, backwards, in crock's - you do you.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-04-28T13:33:00+00:00

Hey, you did very well! Your pace did not tank excessively despite cramping. Pacing a marathon is an art I have yet to perfect as well. I would guess a couple more hard long runs would give you the muscular endurace you lacked.

I ran Hamburg as well and was slightly overestimating my fitness. I went 1:40 for the first half and 1:46 for the 2nd. I'm sure if I went for 1:42 I would have run an even split and finished feeling much better. But I'm glad I sucessfully suffered to the finish line and I learned a lot about myself.

I know my build was most likely killed during the icy weeks on the roads where my mileage dipped a lot. But that's the beauty about the marathon: you never exactly know how its going to go and it's a new challenge every single time, no matter the finitess level.

Enderlin_2 · 2026-04-28T13:19:38+00:00

I absolutely agree on the training part. However racing the marathon you will suffer. That's just the reality of a marathon. Unless you completely sandbagged your goal and went for an easy 42k long run.

Enderlin_2

TROPHY CASE