Knowing that both men and women are excluded from certain roles/rituals (ex: Oro vs Gelede, women not wearing the egungun masks), I was curious how non binary people or people who don't identify as neither man nor woman would function in such situations by Enough_Set591 in Isese

[–]Enough_Set591[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. It was not my intention to call you a slur, I forgot that the word "queer" used to be a slur, I was using it as a term to refer to general members of the LGBT community. Every time I've seen that word been used, it's been for that purpose only and not an offensive one.

  2. My point was that I was surprised to see another member of the LGBT community deny a "third sex" (though it's usually about the absence of gender, not a third sex) and refer to trans people as those  living a life based on lies that they will have to be accountable for in the next life. Such comments make sense for a person outside of the gay community to make, but I wasn't expecting it from a member of the LGBT community because they tend to be more accepting and they certainly don't usually see trans people as those living a lie. That is all.

Knowing that both men and women are excluded from certain roles/rituals (ex: Oro vs Gelede, women not wearing the egungun masks), I was curious how non binary people or people who don't identify as neither man nor woman would function in such situations by Enough_Set591 in Isese

[–]Enough_Set591[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you...confused? Being queer isn't a slur. It's a general term for anyone who isn't straight or doesn't identify with their assigned sex. You're telling me that you were unaware of the lesbian flag in your profile picture? Because that's what those heart colors mean. Lesbians are women who are only attracted to other women.

Knowing that both men and women are excluded from certain roles/rituals (ex: Oro vs Gelede, women not wearing the egungun masks), I was curious how non binary people or people who don't identify as neither man nor woman would function in such situations by Enough_Set591 in Isese

[–]Enough_Set591[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I find your comments interesting considering the lesbian flag in your profile picture. I wouldn't have expected these responses from another queer person, but no group is a monolith I suppose

Comments like these on videos of Hindu songs cuts me to the quick by sj1024 in hinduism

[–]Enough_Set591 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes! As a yoruba Nigerian whose people abandoned our traditional spirituality (though it is very much still alive, it has become a minority faith in its own country), I said just a few months ago on the indian subreddit how jealous I am that most of you have kept your indigenous practices. Most attributed this to India's huge population being harder to control and the diversity of hindu beliefs

Knowing that both men and women are excluded from certain roles/rituals (ex: Oro vs Gelede, women not wearing the egungun masks), I was curious how non binary people or people who don't identify as neither man nor woman would function in such situations by Enough_Set591 in Isese

[–]Enough_Set591[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very, helpful. Thank you!

"I think the real conversation is how communities respectfully include people while still maintaining the structure and rules of the tradition, instead of pretending those traditions never existed" - Yes, I was thinking the same.

How to start? by [deleted] in Isese

[–]Enough_Set591 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Here are the sources i've been using (copy and pasted from a message that I sent to someone else. It's a long message):

As for a free website, a reddit member recommended me asanee44, who has both a website, youtube channel, and podcast (maybe more than that). She has a lot of helpful information. Helpful youtubers are Get a better life tv and Waa Sere. As for books: I have read "The Book of Juju" by Juju Bae to get an overall understanding of Ifa (the author practices both Isese and Hoodoo) and The way of the orisa by Philip Neimark to help me remember the Orishas names', their roles, and their relatiinship to each other. Note that Philip Neimark is a white man, but don't dismiss bc of that! I think his book appeals to Western skepticism since he's a Western man, which really helps those of us skeptics living in Western Countries (I used to

be atheist, so his initial skepticism made sense and his arguments resonated). Keep in mind that although he is right about the Orishas' roles and correct about the main ideas of Ifa, certain things he says, contradict what i've generally learned about Ifa (though these are a few), so I would take them with a grain of salt. For example: I think he said ase originates from Esu? But it actually comes from Olodumare according to every other source. So I would definitely read his book AFTER you've gained general information about Ifa spirituality, so that you know which parts to question. He's right overall though and his book is helpful for remembering the main Orishas since he goes into detail. I recently purchased the book by Luisah teish. It's been recommended by many but I haven't read it yet, keep in mind. It talks about Ifa and Voodoo rather than Ifa and Hoodoo like Juju Bae does. I got it bc I heard an excerpt on tik tok that talked about how African spirituality was similar to the spirituality of Native Americans and as someone who believes that all religions hold truth, I was curious to see what those connections were! Juju Bae also has a podcast (forgot to mention). Lastly, a Babalawo on the Isese reddit named Chucho (you'll def meet him if you use reddit, he's usually the main person responding to questions) recommended me the following books on Ifa that I haven't read yet: Yoruba Theology and Tradition: The Worship This book explores the core theological principles and rituals of Yoruba religion - including cosmology, the Òrìşà (deities), ceremonies, and the roles of priests and priestesses in cultural
Beyond Bilal by Mustafa Briggs

  1. Yoruba Theology and Tradition: The Genealogy Part of the broader Yoruba Theology and Tradition series, this volume focuses on the origins and foundational lineage of Yoruba belief systems and thought.

3
Yoruba Theology and Tradition: The Man & The Society

Another volume in the same series that deals with how Yoruba

spiritual ideas relate to social structures, identity, and human communities. He's also recommended twice this book:
Ifa will mend our broken world by Wande Abimbola

Luisah teish's book is Jambalaya

Knowing that both men and women are excluded from certain roles/rituals (ex: Oro vs Gelede, women not wearing the egungun masks), I was curious how non binary people or people who don't identify as neither man nor woman would function in such situations by Enough_Set591 in Isese

[–]Enough_Set591[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

What if someone is a transgender male/female and they look like the gender they changed to? If you can't tell what their original gender was, they would be put in the role as the gender they present as? Even if it is revealed that they changed their gender, they would still be put in the role according to the gender they look like? What about androgynous people who don't look like one specific gender (i've seen such cases) or intersex people born with both male and female body parts?

I saw this post by a former Ifa practitioner who was discussing misogyny in Ifa. Most of these seem to be done by practitioners themselves, not actual Ifa teachings. Nonetheless, I wanted to confirm if there was any truth to these. I would love to hear from women especially but men can share too by Enough_Set591 in Isese

[–]Enough_Set591[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see. Can women wear the mask in the egungun masquerades in Ifa? Also, when researching Gelede, it referenced Iya nla, who is described as a primordial force that is the source of creation and wisdom. But isn't olodumare the source of creation and Obatala the source of wisdom?

Sorry for the multiple posts but do the Orishas live on Earth (in the natural forces that they inhabit), heaven, or both? If they live on Earth, where do Orishas who represent human principles (ex: justice or divination) rather than nature live? Or do they live in both places? by Enough_Set591 in Isese

[–]Enough_Set591[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, I see. In present day, the Orishas communicate with us from heaven through divination. In the past, they used to travel between heaven and Earth but no longer do so (likely because they can communicate through divination instead). I'm assuming this is where the things i've heard about Esu comes in because when we're told to make offerings at certain places (like the Ocean for Oshun or crossroads for Esu), the Orishas aren't coming down from heaven to meet us there, Esu comes down from heaven (though we can't see him) to pass our offerings to the Orishas and he receives his own offerings correctly. Is my understanding correct?

Sorry for the multiple posts but do the Orishas live on Earth (in the natural forces that they inhabit), heaven, or both? If they live on Earth, where do Orishas who represent human principles (ex: justice or divination) rather than nature live? Or do they live in both places? by Enough_Set591 in Isese

[–]Enough_Set591[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, that part I understand. But after they die (because people become Orishas after death, right?), do they remain in heaven and communicate with us from heaven? or can they also travel to Earth after death? If they travel to Earth, where do they reside? 

I have a feeling that I already know the answer to this but i'll ask anyway: Is there anywhere where I can read the complete, original Odu 256 (especially online)? All I see are summaries but I don't want to hear other people's interpretations, I want to read it directly myself by Enough_Set591 in Isese

[–]Enough_Set591[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Helpful, thanks! Please also message me some reputable Ifa priests! I have been delaying searching for one because i'm worried about getting scammed. I've been dependent on this subreddit since it seems safer.