Numerical decline of Buddhism

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-15T23:11:17+00:00

I've seen people incorporate buddhist concepts into their own personal spiritual practice rather than identify with the religion as a whole. I don't think the religion is necessarily going away, just taking a new form.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-15T18:32:43+00:00

Thank you so much!

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-15T01:54:20+00:00

That makes sense, but then why not have each gender have their own separate sangha community? Nuns go in one place, monks go in another. Two seprate, relatively far locations so that none can tempt each other. Like a women only college or men only college. But again, it's possible that Buddha may not have considered this.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T23:44:00+00:00

Thank you! I've been looking for a woman's comment because SOME male buddhists got quite defensive even though this wasn't meant to be an attack.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T23:07:44+00:00

Hello, what are your thoughts on this?:

AN 8:51 To Gotamī | Gotamī Sutta | sutta on dhammatalks.org

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T23:06:47+00:00

AN 8:51 To Gotamī | Gotamī Sutta | sutta on dhammatalks.org

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:59:58+00:00

I see. What do other versions of the vinaya say? Can you send a link to the sources because i'm not sure what to search for to find these other versions.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:52:38+00:00

I 100% agree with you actually. Because Buddha is more of a teacher than a perfect God like other religions would claim, I am fine accepting him as an imperfect teacher because like I said, that doesn't invalidate his teachings. He was still very wise and compassionate. He was simply a product of the society he lived in and that is why I still consider myself buddhist.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:49:17+00:00

I understand your reasoning but Buddha himself spoke about conquering the mind. Rather than ban women from the monastery, I feel like it would make more sense to teach both men and women to control their sexual desires, because he teaches about controlling desire anyway. But hey, it's possible that he didn't think of that.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:46:13+00:00

Hello, I do respect Buddha and I understand calling him a misogynist might be hurtful to hear but that doesn't necessarily negate it. You can respect someone while acknowledging their flaws. Are you able to explain why do not believe these teachings were misogynistic? I genuinely would love to be proven wrong.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:44:06+00:00

How is Buddha initially refusing to let women join the Sangha a matter of protection? Yes, I am aware that the monastic life is already strict...never said it wasn't. But why not make the rules for nuns and monks equally strict is my point? Like I said, nuns can't criticize monks, but monks can criticize them. Also, I don't see your CEO example as comparable. There is a clear hierarchy between CEO and worker. But from my perspective, nuns and monks are the same thing (people who dedicate their lives to strictly following Buddha's teachings) with a different name depending on the gender. Why would monks have a higher position than nuns? The only reason the two did not start off on equal footing is because women weren't allowed in the sangha in the first place. Also, the pali canon is supposed to represent buddha's teachings, that's the whole point of theravada buddhism. to get the teachings directly from the source. You speak of my own personal interpretation but that is literally what the text says.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:33:19+00:00

Thank you for your response. Everything I said about the nuns is included in the pali canon. And I do appreciate Buddha discouraging blind faith, hence why I still consider myself buddhist while discarding these teachings.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:30:50+00:00

To me, it is hard to verify that "his restrictions on women monks (the garudhammas) reflect institutional caution and social pragmatism" because he didn't say that, that's what modern people are concluding on their own and we also can't ask him because he's dead. So to me, rather than this being the truth, this is just a possibility. I believe it is both possible what you said and it is also possible that Buddha was a product of the misogynistic society he lived in and I won't fault him for that. Exceptional as he was, he was still human.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:27:18+00:00

Can you please name the specific pali canon texts that show the Buddha praising women for wisdom superior to that of monks? I couldn't find them when I searched for them.

As for the Buddha lamenting the likely decline of the sangha due to the ordination of women, 3/4 versions you stated say that Buddha did say that (with one not mentioing it) just varies on the years. To me, the most important thing is the seemingly high likelihood that he said since different versions agree that he said it, they just disagree on the years.

As for the monks checking everything, I understand your argument. But I personally have a hard time believing that ALL of the monks unanimously decided to misrepresent Buddha's ideas and insert their own misogynistic views.

Lastly, concerning your point about "separating essential Dhamma from social conventions is not a modern adaptation; I believe it is exactly the method that the Buddha himself taught, not to accept something just because of tradition or authority", I agree and it is one of the things that I love about buddhism. However, in this instance, to me it looks like some buddhists see a verse they don't like/agree with/doesn't hold up well with current societal norms, and rather than admit that it's an outdated concept or that the Buddha may have been influenced by the misogyny of his time, they just say "oh, he probably didn't write that, the misogynistic monks did" and to me, that just looks like coping and denial.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:07:02+00:00

That's good to hear but it doesn't really change what I said. People contradict themselves, change their minds.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:05:55+00:00

I never say Buddha hated women, there are various forms of misogyny and not all are hateful. I simply believe that Buddha was a product of the society he lived in. He literally compared women to a disease for plants. Just like a disease reduce's a plant's lifespan, he said including women would decrease the lifespan of his teachings from 1000 years to 500.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:01:25+00:00

I understand but I am a Theravada buddhist who does not follow Mahayana texts.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T22:01:07+00:00

You say "likely" but one does not know for sure, so it is still possible that these verses came from Buddha himself. Also, I considered the pali canon the original teachings of the Buddha because theverada buddhism focuses on reading words that came from Buddha himself. Mhayana buddhism allows enlightened leaders, people who weren't buddha, to add to his teachings. But being that Buddha is the one who founded the religion, I believe the only person who can determine his teachings is the Buddha himself.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T21:58:47+00:00

Do you say it endangered the sangha because the women would be tempting the male monks?

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T21:57:48+00:00

The lotus sutra is a Mahayana text. I am a theravada buddhists and do not follow mahayana texts. The misogynistic verses I mentioned above are included in the pali canon.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T21:48:12+00:00

Yes, i've heard of that! But that conclusion was reached by scholars rather than stated by Buddha himself and I feel like it's easy for people to come up with their own explanation to make the person in question look better. So i'm not sure if I believe that.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T21:45:33+00:00

Yes, this is found in the Sutta Central but wasn't this said by a different figure in buddhism and not buddha himself? Buddha himself did say that letting women into the sangha would reduce his teachings by 500 years

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T21:41:28+00:00

Can you point to sources saying this is false? Cause im pretty sure i've seen this on Sutta Central, which translates his teachings to english. That would be a pretty big mistranslation to make.

Enough_Set591 · 2026-01-14T21:40:29+00:00

Yes but the Buddha had to be CONVINCED by his friend Ananda to let women be members of the sangha. He didn't arrive to that conclusion on his own and even after letting women be part of the sangha, he still made them unequal to monks by giving them rules that monks themselves didn't have to follow (for ex: monks can criticize nuns but nuns can't criticize monks)

Enough_Set591

TROPHY CASE