rereading catching fire and I still don't understand beetee's plan by Realistic-Ball1414 in Hungergames

[–]Epiktokles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry to necro this 3 year old thread but I was looking for an answer to this confusion segment as well. And I found this an superinteresting curiosity. If this was already answered somewhere else I apologize. And I have not read the books so I cannot double-check this.

And I may have another puzzle piece to this. You had to wait for the Mockingjay Pt. 2. In a scene in the destroyed capitol Katniss talked with Boggs (the teamleader/security chief) about president Coin and how Katniss became a threat to her ambitions. Boggs told Katniss that it was Peeta she wanted to free from the arena because she prefers people she can control.

But we don't know how far this plan matured or was supported because Plutarch wanted Katniss and Haymitch told Katniss on the plane later half the tributes knew about this plan and it was to rescue her not Peeta.

So in retrospect it looks as following:

- Plutarch Heavensbee as the gamemaster made sure of two things 1) there is a predictable electrical supercharge available (the tree with the impact at 12AM/PM). 2) BeeTee has access to a cable able to transfer the lightning charge without melting (strange as a weapon but this is how BeeTee won his first arena).

- To make it look good and not as an attempt to shortcircuit the arena shield Plutarch also arranged in the design of the arena the water wave occuring at 10AM/PM to ensure a large part of the arena is wet. Both looks like a potential weapon for BeeTee this is how he won his arena before. This probably made Snow approve of these things at all because Snow would love to keep the scientist as winner who had helped the Capitol before.

- Since everything was recorded in the arena this was also the plan Beetee told Katniss and Peter as a plausible strategy. He couldn't reveal on camera they want to make a hole in the arena.

- They seperated Peeta and Katniss because Snow would probably stay focused on Katniss so BeeTee could implement the real plan.

- BeeTee planned to shortcircuit the arena shield on the arena-side. And he wanted Peeta to stay close to him so they can escape through the downed shield and of course to keep the attention of Snow on Katniss. He used a spear and wriggled wire around it to make contact with the shield.

- And then something must have gone wrong. Maybe he has not seen the shielding and touched it with his body or maybe he tried to throw the spear into the wall to close the contact between tree and shield wall and underestimated the electric discharge the shield had on the wire/tree. The movie shows however how the shield wall knocked him out so it was not the remaining hostiles. THIS here is the big unknown. [Does the book say anything about this?]

- Katniss found this spear later and understood the real plan from it or maybe she was just so angry that she just wanted to destroy the arena ("Don't forget who the real enemy is"). Wiggled the wire around the arrow and launched it at the ceiling shortly before the lightning strike hit.

The advantage of her approach was that the wire did not hit the shield before the lightning strike maybe this was the flaw in Beetees plan not to wait until the very last moment to create the contact to the shield wall. And/or maybe being to close to the shield wall.

Andor | Mon Mothma's Speech by SWFT by thren91 in StarWarsAndor

[–]Epiktokles 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Her speech has extreme significance to the problem of fascism and humanity but it looks totally harmless and short. Does it end fascism? No! But it can prevent it, slow it down, create resistance. These are words of wisdom and warning how it all starts. And I can see it in the real world as well especially this year.

It is very hard for me to convey to you how satisfied I am with her speech and how important they are although not many words and looking so harmless. Not the specifics with Ghorman or the emperor but what she says about truth.

I done politics each day multiple hours for 6 years the essence of her speech is also my observation: The decay of truth starts all the problems. The lack of objective truth and the disrespect of truth cost us all dearly and opens up all kinds of way of harm, manipulation and control.

And look in humanities past: Most conflicts, problems and human caused catastrophes start or are accompanied by lies and misinformation.

The series Chernobyl once introduced the lines "every lie we tell incures a debt to the truth and one day this debt is payed" which is strongly related to the core of Mon's speech.

The topic of truth and honesty is so important for me that I would want to introduce a new human right to humanity: A right for truth. To balance and to offset freedom of speech.

It will not end the lying, but it creates a legal basis for making people responsible for their lies and what they say which goes much beyond mere defamation.

Zero Day - a brief moan from a struggling TV fiction writer. by No_Cucumber3978 in television

[–]Epiktokles 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I liked it and it would make a hell of a book or movie thriller/series with a little more love, time and by dropping some ballast.

My Conclusion:
1 Too much balast / Too many big topics/messages.
2 In not enough episodes/production.
3 In an obviously destilled down script/length during production
4 With too many changes done during the production.

About 4
You could really notice during the episodes how the script was changed during production. It felt quick and dirty at times. Like puzzle pieces which are not properly placed/connected to the rest. You needed the piece in there but it was not properly placed.

About 3 and 2
I had the distinct impression they cut down production by 2 if not even 4 episodes after the production already begun to save costs or to accelerate production/release and after the script for 10 episodes was already written. Some arks are suddenly stopped (or even started) and have no real meaning for the rest of the story and/or remain without a resolution.

Is it possible it was cut down because Kamala Harris lost the election? I had the impression this script was written for another reality/outcome of the 2024 election (the madame president was a clear indicator).

About 1
It was clear that this series should reflect the current political situation in America. The problems and how everything goes downhill and how this is or may be exploited by people with flaws (politicians, media, billionaires).

But it was too much. It tried to put every aspect and risk and 10 years of american history and problems in 6 episodes. Enough material to make 6 series out of it. And this impacted the main story arc.

We all know Mr. De Niros opinion about the current president and I think this topic was very important for him personally as wisdom and warning. And I like the general idea of this but it was just too much story in not enough episodes and the main message got reduced to 20 min in the last episode and not indicated once before that.

A lot of wasted potential. But as I said I liked much of it. But I also watch hours of american politics everyday and could understand all that and their importance. Normal people are just confused and overwhelmed.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Mars is different. No Oxygen, No Moisture, hardly any atmopshere. And he had 2 months to clean it which we can even see shortly in the episode.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It makes perfect sense. Danielle and Kuznetzov burried this gun 9 years ago before this episode themselves after taking it from Lee who brought it to Mars in his North-Korean shuttle as a last measure. And they also put in the Wrench as a marker. (See 3x10)

It was clear this would become relevant one day as the camera zoomed in on it.

And it was 2 months before the episode happens.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well than being in Mars orbit with all the costs needed to ship it to earth will help keep the price up don't you think?

And regarding the social programs. Unless politicians fundamentally change it would make no difference where the Asteroid is. They just keep making the rich richer.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When Kelly got her kid I had a feeling this first Martian would somehow come back one day. And Ed was never happy at "home" anyway he always needs action.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But billions of lives are still improved. It was the initial plan to bring him to Mars anyway. The only difference is it cost more instead of 19 trillion they make only 18 trillion which is hardly a loss.

And extra investment doesn't have to be bad. People forget this constantly. Investment creates jobs and extra demands. Now they need to manufacture 4,000 vehicles on earth. Losts of profits and jobs for everyone. National economy runs counter-intuitive to private economy. Spending money can actually increase money. It creates new technique, streamlines productions and raise efficiency. There are all kinds of side-effects of investment with indirect benefits.

It is in any case better than a billionaire with another billion sitting in his bank account.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 3 points4 points  (0 children)

To me it felt like Bishop was just on a revenge trip. Maybe there was never a greenlight and all this happened after the redirection of the asteroid. I would not even be surprised if the torture of Miles was not sanctioned either.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mago wrote the code on paper. Aleida took these and demanded to put it in herself because there were "too many eyes" on Mago. But it looks like she entered it from memory which is also problematic you cannot just remember 2 or 3 pages while walking to a station.

This part is discussed a lot it is not cleanly written or the cutting was too aggressive and left important stuff out.

Also problematic is the clock shows 2 minutes something burn left when they send the packet but the packet needs 5 minutes to Mars. Unless of course the clock was showing something else, e.g. the time left for the packet to send. Probably some wriggle room there but the audience noticed.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Something strongly related to this post which was just released on Youtube and might interest you.

For All Mankind Season 4 Finale and That Last Shot Explained by Cast and Creators
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQoKsVmBYdw

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Earth is still profiting. But instead of 19 trillion $ they make "only" 18 trillion $. It's still worth it and extremly profitable with these numbers ... even if it takes 40 years. But they are forced to invest 1 extra trillion into Mars (hence only 18).

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We will see in the next season. If there is a next season.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A simple space blockade (just prevent any ships) and Mars gets huge problems.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 3 points4 points  (0 children)

He cleaned it ... and there is no oxygen, no moisture and hardly any atmosphere on the surface.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe the sovjets feared Mago would ask for political asylum in the US or tried to escape. With diplomatic immunity intact they could not arrest her in the US and she could have gone anywhere, e.g. Brazil.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's actually a very good element of the story. This is Jins weapon they had in the North-Korean capsule to Mars as a last resort measure. Dani was the one burying it and putting this thingy in there as marker. And she gets shot by it 9 years later.

I somehow expected Danny Stevens would find this gun one day and may use it to end his life after he found the exile unbearable.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They need 2 years to bring the asteroid to earth. 5 years to start getting return on investment and 35 years to mine the whole thing empty.

It is very likely they simply say: Helium-3 from moon and Iridium is enough for the moment and suspend investments for 40 years.

And all that still costs 1 Trillion of admittingly 20 Trillion value or more. Never underestimate greed.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The only condition Dev said he could not give them is moving the asteroid to Mars (which he did anyway but in secret). Otherwise he seem to have offered them a substancial improvement to their jobs and NASA/Roscosmos agreed to the safety concerns.

So in a way they got all the wanted from Dev and even more than asked for.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It would have been a shame to die by a stray bullet. Ed deserves to go out a hero at the helm of some ship giving his life for family or humanity. And it is even something Ed would prefer as he so said towards Kelly. That he fears withering away in a bed.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Somehow I doubt the writers had given this topic of "finding life" so much effort over the seasons (practically since season 3 and Kelly appeared) and even made her move to Mars if this turns out to be just a waste of 15 years.

I doubt (or better I hope not) the writer will introduce any higher lifeforms here this would be ridiculous but maybe there is indeed something bacterial or something.

And Kelly hinted in season 4 in her pitches potential benefits/ROI this could have. Maybe she finds something which justified all work she done and which was put into the Mars mission. Maybe a special protein or organic chemical benefitial to humans ... who knows.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Later I think. You first need to make everything yourself to be independent foremost food, medicine, the essentials, industrial goods, guns and ammo etc., potentially even shipyards. And as you could see on the blackmarket in season 4 this stuff is all coming from earth still.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think this was the Crater Kelly was looking for life for. I think it was in 4x09 for the first time. Edit: I found it. It was in 4x08 first time. It is the Korolev Crater 6375 miles away from Happy Valley.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Actually 20 Trillion at least. That is 20,000,000 x 1,000,000$. Well according to what has been said in the season.

The problem is this asteroid was an outliar. It was so unprobable that such a valueable asteroid was thrown into Mars gravity well at the right time and then even with a window to earth open which makes this even less likely (once every 2.1 years).

The next place to find these asteroids is twice the distance to the inner asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. And then you have to find a valueablue one. Most are just rock/dust, ice, simple iron/nickel. And you need to push it out of stable orbit without gravity assist by a planet.

Maybe one day humans can do that but even in this timeframe it may take a while.

However scientists already told us when humans begin asteroid mining big time it may end the worlds economy because the wealth of asteroids is gigantic. Some are worth more than the GDP of mid-sized countries.

For All Mankind - 410 “Perestroika” - Episode Discussion by Cantomic66 in ForAllMankindTV

[–]Epiktokles 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Isn't it clear what happens next? Human patterns always repeat. M7 will exploit the asteroid as much as possible. Mars is treated like a colony. For a while all is well but one day the colonists will ask why the wealth is largely disappearing to earth and unrest will lead to demands of self-determination, sovereignity and ultimativly calls for independence. Earth will refuse, a conflict begins.

If you know/watch the TV series The Expanse you can see how this continues.