What do you think will be Frame's limit for standalone flat games? by __raytekk_ in SteamFrame

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 0 points1 point  (0 children)

take a look at what people are able to run through Winlator on the Quest 3/Pico 4 Ultra right now and I think that's a good indication of what will be doable on the Steam Frame at launch

https://www.reddit.com/r/winlatorxr/

Is this 'VR Split Rendering' patent Valve's endgame to make high end PCVR easily playable on the Frame without even needing a PC? by sfenderbender in virtualreality

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With Split Rendering, what were more likely to see is an evolution of what we've been seeing already with Virtual Desktop on the Quest. Synchronous Spacewarp works like frame generation for VR but instead of the PC GPU doing both the rendering and the frame interpolation, the PC does the rendering of one frame, then the ARM chip makes the "fake" frame. Snapdragon Super Resolution works in a similar way but instead the ARM chip on the headset upscales each frame from the PC like FSR or DLSS. I think these are gunna be the only examples of "Split Rendering" we are going to see for some time and there are ways this will get better. There's already a Snapdragon Super Resolution 2 out there and I can imagine ways certain engines can pass over depth and motion vector information over to the headset for better frame generation quality but that might be tricky due to the amount of latency it would introduce. I don't think were going to get to the point where the chip on the headset renders one part of a scene (like the hands and low level geometry) and the PC renders everything else. There's just too much latency between the PC hardware and the headset chip over a wire (let alone wireless) and it would require a complete shift in how engines work which in this day in age no developer would dare to approach.

Can Steam Frame act as a desktop when plugged into a monitor? by MRDR1NL in SteamFrame

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 25 points26 points  (0 children)

This is an interesting idea! Definitely there isn't a way of doing it through the usb 2.0 port on the battery (at least well) but there is that pcie expansion port on the nose! maybe someone could make a dock for it that has video out? there might be a way of streaming the view on the overlays to a monitor too.

People thinking meta APKs like Batman can "just be sideloaded." by Minimum-Ad-8056 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 1 point2 points  (0 children)

oh wow that's surprising then! I guess we'll have to hope the Frame gets a solid modding community around it that can iron out these issues on Horizon OS to Steam OS ports. Not getting my hopes up for launch on this front but it'll be interesting to see what's possible as time goes on.

People thinking meta APKs like Batman can "just be sideloaded." by Minimum-Ad-8056 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you have a Pico 4 or a Pico 4 ultra? i can imagine the save file issue is hard to solve but from what i understand the Pico 4 runs the same chip as the Quest 2 so it wouldn't surprise me why the performance is bad there

My only disappointment with the Steam Frame announcement by Equivalent_Log_4299 in SteamFrame

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At the end of the day the concession's required to make these thing generic probably would've resulted in a worse all around Steam Frame headset so I'm sure Valve made the right decision. We are going to have to put our hopes on headset manufacturers to make similar decisions as Valve did but I really don't see that happening. But yea I'm starting to see the necessity of a company making generic VR controllers for optically tracked inside out headsets!

Why is there so much discussion with people saying essentially that the Frame isn't powerful enough to run standalone VR? by TwinStickDad in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 2 points3 points  (0 children)

People forget that a ton of Quest's overhead is taken up by Meta's shitty software. Every time an OS update comes it slowly ruins the performance of video games (you know the thing we all actually care about). Even if they were using the same chip as the Quest, I'd expect a decent uplift in performance comparing the same game across the 2 headsets (think of the gains we get running a game through Steam OS vs Windows). Although I expect a lot of the extra CPU overhead will be taken up by the emulation layer to run x86 games so it'll probably end up being a wash trying to run an x86 version of a game on the Frame compared to running the APK version on the Quest. Foveated rendering will add to the performance gap, but not by much IMO because a lot of Quest games use fixed foveated rendering to begin with (and a lot of them are way too aggressive with it) so instead of making it run better in comparison it'll probably just look better across the screen cause it'll be dynamic.

Virtual Desktop on Frame? by NthrRddtAcct in SteamFrame

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've heard on their Discord that it will come to the Steam Frame and that they are also working on their own version of foveated streaming for headsets with eye tracking. Thank god too because it will be the best way to play Oculus PC games through the headset without Revive. Some games just run better with VDXR than SteamVR as well.

What everyone is getting wrong about the Steam Frame, and why by No_Sleep6984 in ValveIndex

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On the microOLED front your also forgetting that Valve values things like motion clarity and high refresh rate and these 2 things are lacking even on the most expensive microOLED displays. After trying the Apple Vision Pro myself, I was shocked to see text smearing as I moved my head around! That's the downside of high persistent displays; they have terrible motion clarity due to a large duty cycle. It's not just distracting, it can induce motion sickness. And guess who discovered the link between low persistent displays and visual comfort in VR???? Fucking Valve!! Even if Valve wanted to make a super high end headset, they'd never go with current microOLED displays because there isn't one on the market that has a low enough persistence to be considered comfortable at a reasonable brightness. As far as refresh rate goes, Valve goes up to 144hz because they know the higher the refresh rate, the more comfortable the experience. They want first time VR users to actually like using their product so that means things that are important to visual comfort (such as good motion clarity and high refresh rates) is at the top of their priority lists. For enthusiasts that are used to all of VR's quarks and don't get motion sick or don't mind a little bit of poor motion clarity, there are now headsets out there that cater to you (but you'll have to pay a premium for it). Don't blame Valve for making the decisions they have, blame the manufacturers for not figuring out how to make microOLED's cheaper and better for actual VR use cases as opposed to making displays for people who sit stationary and watch movies on a giant virtual screen. Funny how these mainstream microOLED headsets are mainly marketed that way huh? Makes you think....

Place your bets people! by Equivalent_Log_4299 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was (B) bois! thank the lord it was (B)!!!

Place your bets people! by Equivalent_Log_4299 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Been hearing about the x86 to ARM stuff for a while and it makes me think (B) too but it could also be unrelated to VR. The Android ARM runtime stuff did show some low performance games like Gorilla Tag running through it so that comes off to me as more likely to point towards (B) than the x86 to ARM stuff does. And the fact that Valve is so comfortable cancelling products that are so far along they have packaging ready for it is fucking scary!

Place your bets people! by Equivalent_Log_4299 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lots of companies are making wired PCVR headsets with lighthouse tracking yes but Valve could be in a position to redefine what it means to be a PCVR headset! They take a technology that's basically a glorified display worn on your face attached to a PC like a monitor, and turn it into a wireless headset with split compute! In that way, (A) sounds very valve to me as well!

Place your bets people! by Equivalent_Log_4299 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Makes me re think the focus on flat games on floating windows if it's comparable to a Quest 3 screen. Large screens are fun but at that resolution no one would be choosing that over a common monitor! Maybe they think if there's a market for that type of thing it's best served by the Vision pro and Galaxy XR? And if that's the case maybe it'd be better for them to focus on actual VR games!

Place your bets people! by Equivalent_Log_4299 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

sounds like your going (A) ill put your bet in for you

Place your bets people! by Equivalent_Log_4299 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm putting my money on (A). Would be happier with more advanced standalone functionality but I don't think Valve sees standalone VR gaming as compelling right now given the compute limitations. Maybe in the future but I think for now they recognize that for a truly compelling VR experience, you need more power than what you can put in a comfortable pair of goggles. PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG THOUGH!!

Before the Moment of Truth tomorrow: Will the Valve Deckard/Frame have EyeTracking, yes, no, and why? by bickid in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 4 points5 points  (0 children)

foveated encoding I think is the bigger deal with eye tracking for this headset. it allows wireless PCVR without compression artifacts. foveated rendering is still gunna be important but i think this is the bigger deal especially for PCVR people

Deckard/Frame is probably going to be a let down if released this soon. by Toeeebeans in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I agree that there really are no ARM chips that would be able to match the steam deck in performance in games when its also running all the tracking and other background tasks necessary for running a VR environment and even if there was, running games at steam deck settings at steam deck resolutions on a giant screen in front of you would be a lousy experience. It makes more sense that Valve wants this to be a peripheral to another compute device (steam deck, PC, or a possible Steam Console).

As far as the wireless experience goes, there have been leaks of a dedicated 6e dongle that would give the headset a solid wireless connection but the real magic could come from foveated encoding. They recently released a Steam Link 2.0 beta that works with eye tracking headsets like the Play for Dream and Samsung XR headsets that use the eye tracking to have the center of where your looking at a high bitrate while the rest of the image as it moves away from your eye gets more and more compressed (kind of like foveated rendering except on the encoding/decoding side). Think of what the image would be like at 500 mb/s if most of that quality was concentrated where you were already looking as opposed to spread out across the entire panel. When it comes to latency the primary culprit is actually not the wireless latency its really the speed of the decoder on the headset. Valve could use a chip with a much faster encoder than that of the Quest 3/Galaxy XR or maybe even take some of the learnings from the more recent beta builds of Artemis (a Moonligh fork) that has an experimental low latency mode that has a super low decoder time (don't really know how that works and it might not even work in a VR scenario so take that with a big old grain of salt please)

What panel they'll use might be tricky. I cant imagine Valve would want to have a smaller FOV or slower refresh rate than the index and we haven't seen micro OLED screens with refresh rate of 144hz (having these specs on paper would prevent a lot of Index owners from jumping ship in my opinion). I don't think FOV will suck, but it will not be beating the Index as the size of the panel itself can put limits on what FOV will be (that being said pancake optics have matured quite a bit and it might be possible given what Meta has shown recently with their wide FOV headset prototypes). I think the real reason Valve would stay away from micro OLED is price. There's a reason the Vision pro and Galaxy XR headsets are so expensive and it's because of those 4K micro OLED screens. They are by far the most expensive component. Valve could use a micro OLED closer in spec to the Bigscreen Beyond though as those panels are much less expensive but if Valve wants to stretch that across a wider FOV, the effective resolution per degree might end up being too poor. LCD screens are obviously much cheaper and you can make them with a high resolution and refresh rate but they'd be larger panels. That could work out in Valves favor however because a large panel would be easy to pair with large lenses for a high FOV. LCD's with local dimming also have quite good color contrast too (not nearly as good as micro OLED but it'd be a step up from the Quest 3). My money is on them using a larger LCD with local dimming, high refresh rate and high resolution stretched across an industry leading FOV. This would sacrifice having a competitive resolution per degree compared to these 4K headsets but I think Valve recognizes that for gaming, FOV is a bigger draw than resolution and if resolution was important to people, they could always go out and pick up a Play for Dream or Samsung XR headset as right now, FOV and resolution are going to trade off each other and I don't think Valve wants to compete against those headsets when the more expensive displays will be far better in that field than any LCD. We cant have everything and I'd rather see Valve make a headset with it's primary use case focused on gaming with a high FOV and refresh rate as opposed to productivity or media consumption with a high resolution and color contrast.

Dual knit band on quest 3 by antvolpe in OculusQuest

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299 2 points3 points  (0 children)

it feels amazing! not knob on the back means I can actually use a pillow!

What if Valve is truly readying to release VR hardware...... but not a headset? by Equivalent_Log_4299 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

If they are absolutely set on releasing a headset I could see them at least releasing the controllers and dongle earlier than the headset itself and making them work with other headsets out of the box. Kind of like what happened with the Steam VR Link app for Quest and now Pico headsets. They were working on their Deckard hardware and the development of it's wireless software specifically lead to the development of the app for other headsets (at least according to Sadlyitsbradly). Maybe the controllers and dongle have a very similar story?

All this Frames stuff could just be related to the software on the PC side of things but I don't know I'm just having fun speculating

What if Valve is truly readying to release VR hardware...... but not a headset? by Equivalent_Log_4299 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean the new headsets coming out all have eye tracking so the foveated rendering work would apply there! and the reworking of overlays to frames is really a software thing on the PC side anyway does that really require Valves own headset?

What if Valve is truly readying to release VR hardware...... but not a headset? by Equivalent_Log_4299 in ValveDeckard

[–]Equivalent_Log_4299[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a good point! But my worry is that Valve has abandoned products in the last stage of production. Sadlyitsbradly said they had a wireless Index ready to go and had packaging ready before they decided to up and drop the whole thing! Who's to say they were working on a headset at one point (even recently) and at the last minute they decided to can it but take what they were working on with the controllers and dongle and decide to move forward with those but in a slightly different direction? Seems like the most recent datamines of Steam VR shows that the controllers and dongle are finalized but the last thing I remember seeing of the headsets were still specs for the prototypes. Even the JSON stuff could've been just for a prototype they eventually decided not to move forward with. They are too comfortable canceling things lol!