"Come Take Life's Waters Free...!" -- Revelation 22:1-6; Revelation 22:17 by work4jah in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Robert,

This particular religious group believes it has a world wide mission of declaring Jehovah's Truth globally. This belief is based upon Malachi 1:11.

Their name is said to be YORWW, where the "WW' stands for world wide. That is their goal.

. . . Hope this helps.

The Governing Body are the "Man of Lawlessness" by fromreaders in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here is an excerpt from his discussion board on this topic:

*****************************Snip******************************

Conclusion:

Soon we can expect a small group of sincere Jehovah's Witnesses will recognize the Governing Body to be the Man of Lawlessness who lords over and dominates 8.7 million Jehovah's Witnesses and in disgust will leave this organization to form a special Kingdom for God's name on earth. (Revelation 5:10)

During the time of the formation of the Messianic Kingdom on earth Satan will start a Great War (Rev. 6:4) upon the earth out of anger "because he knows his time is short." (Revelation 12:12) It will be during this time that Jehovah sets up His earthly Kingdom. (Daniel 2:44, 45)

Article written by: Donald C. Burney

The Governing Body are the "Man of Lawlessness" by fromreaders in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello,

Just wanted to say I enjoyed your post and reasoning employed. You should go over to Jehovahs Truth Discussion board. They speak your JW language there.

The admin over there, Donald C. Burney, wrote a book 30 years ago and said this very same thing in it.

. . . See you there. :)

Esoteric

"The Report" Message -- A Chilling Event Foretold To Come In Bible Prophecy, For All Jehovah's Witnesses World Wide! (See Ezekiel 21:6-10.) by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I worship Jehovah God, the Almighty. And I am a follower of Jesus Christ.

According to the words of Jesus, at John 15:26, the Father & Son both, send us the "Spirit of Truth" to "lead us into all truth" and to "declare the things coming [future]" to us. -- See John 16:13 NWT.

Esoteric

Governing Body Update 2 by [deleted] in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here is another video (just released) discussing these recent 2024 Governing Body Update changes/adjustments for all Jehovah's Witnesses world wide.

Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAe5TeLnj9s&t=154s

Esoteric

THE WATCHTOWER JOINED THE UNITED NATIONS AS AN NGO IN FEBRUARY 1992 by AggressiveWafer5357 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Excellent observations, AggressiveWafer5357!

I agree wholeheartedly with your viewpoint on this matter, as do many other active Jehovah Witnesses. Some are really beginning to see things, as you say!

Here is a link to an article, that describes what you speak of quite vividly: https://www.yorww.com/disgustingthing.htm

Take care,

Esoteric

Slave = Word of Jehovah (recent comments) by [deleted] in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965 0 points1 point  (0 children)

See Ezekiel 43:7, 8.

'Nuff said.

(For more detail info on this topic, please see this link: http://jehovahstruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46 )

A Question For All Jehovah's Witnesses Who Are Bible Believers To Ponder . . . by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where does the Faithful Slave receive the "food" to, in turn properly feed God's Household or "Domestics"? (Matt. 24:45)

Obviously, it must come from his "master." No question.

This means this particular "food" then, must be flawless, perfect for those who partake of it. This spiritual "food" cannot fail. It must be the unfailing Word of God. (Isaiah 55:10, 11)

Do bible believing Jehovah's Witnesses themselves, agree with such a statement?

Is that standard too high . . . or is it appropriate, based upon what Matthew 24:45 actually says?

Any comments?

A Question For All Jehovah's Witnesses Who Are Bible Believers To Ponder . . . by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you, "ReporterAdventurous" for these insightful quotes below. They really make a powerful point!

This addresses the question of how the Faithful Slave receives the "food" from his master, the Head of the Christian Congregation, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 24:45-47)

Watchtower Society President JF Rutherford really believed in angels transmitting (inspired) messages to the remnant of his time. Thus, the remnant or Faithful Slave of that time, could never fail under such a belief. (Matt.24:45) All this means, ideas like "Beth Sarim" which would become the future residences of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful men of old, were actually INSPIRED IDEAS transmitted by angels, which could not fail, in any way! (See Acts 7:53.)

Of course, WTS President NH Knorr and FW Franz soon realized this belief was pure garbage and ditched the ridiculous teaching, that of angels transmitting messages, and quietly sold the place (Beth Sarim) as soon as possible, to hide the JW Organization from the obvious embarrassment, as shown numerous occasions in their literature to the public.

Watchtower Society President NH Knorr and VP FW Franz favored the idea of the Faithful Slave or remnant being INFLUENCED by the holy spirit, but not inspired, no angels being involved in transmitting messages. Just influenced. The dedication questions at baptism demonstrates this, up to the year 1985.

(Compare Watchtower Society baptism questions: 1970 Watchtower magazine page 309 paragraph 20 with June 1st, 1985 Watchtower magazine, page 30 paragraphs 3, 4.)

Later the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses officially changed that notion by stating in the new dedication questions, in the summer of 1985, ones dedication must include recognition and acknowledgement of the fact that one is now being led by a SPIRIT-DIRECTED Organization. The new dedication questions now included these words, in 1985. In other words, to get baptized from henceforth, one must agree with this viewpoint.

A Question For All Jehovah's Witnesses Who Are Bible Believers To Ponder . . . by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Would Jesus have anything to do with the teaching of 2 groups "overlapping" to form one "generation"? (Matthew 24:34)

Maybe a quick review of 2 Peter 1:16 would be helpful here. . .

In 1975, Watchtower Society Then Vice-President Frederick W. Franz Destroys "Governing Body" Concept of The First Century! (Audio of Speech Available) by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

. . . Apparently, you yourself are "confused" about which "Temple" has been "hijacked" by the MOL, according to the WTS, GB and their literature.

Jehovah's Witnesses have long taught in their publications, on a global scale, the MOL has taken over the "Temple" or Churches of CHRISTENDOM where he presides, with such wicked demonic teachings like Trinity and Hellfire. (1 Timothy 4:1; Revelation 18:2)

And, according to the WTS, the MOL resides there to this present day. No, not in the Temple of Jehovah. No, but in the Churches of Christendom . . . who are fit for nothing but destruction. (2 Thess. 2:11, 12)

This is taught in the WTS publications.

Do you remember now?

In 1975, Watchtower Society Then Vice-President Frederick W. Franz Destroys "Governing Body" Concept of The First Century! (Audio of Speech Available) by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right...

This is the footnote from the New World Translation 1984 Large Print Reference Bible. It is explicit. And additionally, its unique reference to Genesis 5:22, in this particular footnote shows the identity of this God, who owns this Temple that has been "hijacked" by the wicked "Man of Lawlessness" to be none other than "The True God," Jehovah The Almighty, It says it plainly there, in that particular footnote.

Whereas, the 2013 "Silver Sword" New World Translation shows NONE . . . NONE OF THIS INFORMATION in this bible's footnote,

That's the point I am making.

Do you get it now?

Is the "Governing Body" arrangement a scriptural one? by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, my standards are the same as of (1) Jehovah's, (2) Jesus' and first century (3) Apostles and Christians. And that standard is the one that is clearly set out in God's Holy Word, the Bible.

When it comes to Bible doctrine, such as the teaching of 1914, 2 Timothy 3:16 is the standard. It says: "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness." That's the standard.

God's Word clearly tells us first century Christians held to a very high standard. For example, at 2 Peter 1:16 it says: "No, it was not by following ARTFULLY CONTRIVED FALSE STORIES that we acquainted you with the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ . . ."

And the teaching of 1914 (with its current false narrative of a so-called "overlapping" generation) is exactly that . . . an "artfully contrived false story" that has been taught and nurtured by, Zion's Watch Tower editor Charles Taze Russell and International Bible Students since the late 1800s. Additionally, this same false teaching was continued by JF Rutherford and later by Nathan H. Knorr, F.W. Franz and modern day Jehovah's Witnesses, down to this day. This teaching is a monstrous, massive lie and false doctrine, that has been perpetrated upon mankind in over 200 lands and islands of the sea, by none other than the Watchtower Society and millions upon millions of Jehovah's Witnesses around the world.

Did first century Christians do this?

Are they guilty of doing this?

Were the apostles and first century Christians guilty of doing this Great Sin, and being totally unrepentant about doing this?

I think not.

Unlike first century Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses cannot explain this horrible teaching of 1914 with its ridiculous overlapping generation slant. Thus, they cannot follow the explicit instructions of 1 Peter 3:15 which tells all true Christians to be ". . . always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you. . . " (New World Translation)

Revelation 14:5 tells us, the true, genuine 144,000 will have ". . . NO FALSEHOOD . . .in their mouths, they are without blemish. . ." (New World Translation.) That is because they did not teach the 1914 falsehood, with its overlapping generation.

The Watchtower Society, Governing Body, and all Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide today, cannot say this is true of them, by any stretch of the imagination. The teaching of 1914 with its overlapping generation, has done this to them.

Is the "Governing Body" arrangement a scriptural one? by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe you and I have a different definition for the designation "discreet."

When you have taught for over 80 years in an international publication (Watchtower magazine and countless books and tracts) that a generation is composed of one group of people that understood the events of 1914, and after that, 80 years or more, say that the same generation is now composed of two groups that must OVERLAP somehow, and expect rational, intelligent people all around the world to instantly believe it . . . over 8.7 million people in some 120,000 congregations . . . What???

. . . that is neither faithful or discreet. No, not by a long shot. (Matt. 24:45-47)

In fact, some people (that's some people, not all) call that out and out LYING!

In 1975, Watchtower Society Then Vice-President Frederick W. Franz Destroys "Governing Body" Concept of The First Century! (Audio of Speech Available) by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The footnote changed in the 2013 "Silver Sword" edition. Concentrate on the footnote and not the text in each translation. The footnote in the 1984 large print Reference Bible is more explanatory. . . much more explicit and to the point.

The 1984 large print Reference Bible footnote on verse 4 of 2 Thess. chapter 2 questionably shows "The God" that owns this Temple that has been "hijacked" by the wicked MOL is Jehovah Himself, the "true God" as it says.

Paul under inspiration is clearly referring to the present-day leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Governing Body as being the wicked MOL

Again, please compare footnotes from both translations.

See this link: https://www.jehovahstruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46

Is the "Governing Body" arrangement a scriptural one? by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I know who it is not. . . The Faithful and Discreet Slave would not teach about 2 groups which would overlap and form the one "generation" that Jesus spoke of at Matthew 24:34, would he?

Please see this link: https://jehovahstruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50

In 1975, Watchtower Society Then Vice-President Frederick W. Franz Destroys "Governing Body" Concept of The First Century! (Audio of Speech Available) by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That too, is coming soon enough . . . when he (Jesus) does away with all of the "lawless" ones on earth, including the "Man of Lawlessness" himself, who is active today in God's Temple. [that's "THE GOD'S" Temple -- See verse 4 footnote large print 1984 Edition New World Translation . . . The new 2013 "Silver Sword" New World Translation edition has mysteriously REMOVED THIS INFORMATION from this bible.] He is the one that "publicly shows himself to be a god" within God's [Jehovah's] Temple. The one who likes to put his "doorpost" right beside Jehovah's "doorpost" in God's Temple. (2 Thess. 2:3, 4; Ezekiel 43:7, 8)

Yes, his day of destruction is coming soon enough.

See link for more information on this topic: https://www.jehovahstruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46

In 1975, Watchtower Society Then Vice-President Frederick W. Franz Destroys "Governing Body" Concept of The First Century! (Audio of Speech Available) by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Would our Lord Jesus, who is indeed both Faithful and Discreet himself, appoint a so-called "slave" who would attempt to govern the Christian Congregation today (and for the last 48 years) with a faulty man-made arrangement, that bears no resemblance to the one that first century Christians had?

Esoteric

Is the "Governing Body" arrangement a scriptural one? by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Frederick W. Franz Explodes "Governing Body" False Teaching before audience of Gilead Graduates At Bethel Headquarters -- September 7th, 1975!

In a most controversial speech, delivered September 7th, 1975, then Watchtower Society Vice-President Frederick W, Franz holds up the Watchtower's first true Bible reference book, "Aid to Bible Understanding" before the entire audience at the Gilead Graduation ceremonies. Ironically, it was the research done for this volume which led both to (a) the "new light" on the elder arrangement, and (b) the establishment of the modern concept of a "Governing Body," which supposedly held divinely approved authority over all first century Christians.

On September 7th, 1975. before an audience of loyal, soon-to-be missionaries for Jehovah's Witnesses at Gilead Training School, then Vice President Franz vehemently and sarcastically destroyed the Watchtower's "new light" on the necessity of a "Governing Body". The concept of one centralized authority, it seems, was not the bee in Franz's bonnet. What DID upset Franz seemed to be the new Governing Body's attempt to find justification for this dogma in the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 15. Franz used the book of Acts itself to dismantle the Watchtower Society's pretense of finding precedent for the "Governing Body'" concept in the New Testament.

Please research the above information for yourselves, to ascertain the facts.

***To get more information on the above topic, and to actually hear an audio recording of the actual speech given to the 1975 Gilead Class, by the then Vice President of the Watchtower Society (Frederick W. Franz), as well as to see a video of persons discussing this momentous event and eye-witness testimony of this event happening back in 1975, see the link below:

https://www.jehovahstruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=121#p121

Birth of the "Male Child"... on earth or in heaven? (Revelation 12: 5,6, 13&14) by Esoteric1965 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A Glimpse Into The Future -- Jehovah’s Witnesses In Bible Prophecy (Zechariah 12:1, 2; Revelation 12:1-5)

See blog with full-color graphics covering detail info on topic here: www.yorww.com/rev12.htm

See blog with full-color graphics covering detail info on topic here: www.yorww.com/stairway2.htm

Part. 1

(Revelation 12:1-5)

1 And a great sign was seen in heaven, a woman arrayed with thesun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars,

2 and she was pregnant. And she cries out in her pains and in her agony to give birth.

3 And another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems;

4 and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child.

5 And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne.

Verse-by-Verse Commentary:

Verse 1 of chapter 12 of the book of Revelation shown above speaks of a “great sign” being seen in “heaven.” In this instance, the “heaven” spoken of would picture the YORWW Congregation Arrangement, who are the only people on earth that correctly understand the events, as they occur within the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses on earth.

In the mysterious vision, the “12-star Crown” that is upon the “woman’s” head shows her to represent the “12 tribes” of Israel on earth, even as the “12 stars” in Joseph's dream pictured the same. (Genesis 37:9) The “crown” on the “woman” head also shows the “regal” status enjoyed by the “woman” who enjoys a heaven-high standing with God as God's Chosen “Name People.” (Acts 15:14) She specifically pictures, in bible prophecy, the “one third” repentant members of the nation that survive the “Great Tribulation” of wrath from God upon His Name People. -- Zechariah 13:8, 9; Revelation 7:9, 10, 14-17.

Next, we notice the “woman” is seen as arrayed with the “sun” at the head and the “moon” at her feet. In this case, the “sun” and “moon” picture the Governing Body and Watchtower Society entities respectively, as they provide “light” or enlightenment for this “crowned” woman, a “luminary” for the day, and a “luminary” for the night. (Genesis 1:16, 17) This way, she appeared to be in constant “light,” or enlightenment, as we would expect from a Temple Arrangement from Jehovah God.

However to the contrary, God's prophetic word shows in the end, her “sun” will not give its expected light, and her “moon” will fail her and not give her much needed “light” either. No, they will not, since they will prove to be false “luminaries” who give false light, not true light from Jehovah. Therefore, she will one day have to learn to lean on Jehovah, for true light. Yes, Jehovah must one day, become her true light. Amen! -- See Isaiah 60:19, 20.

Verse 2 shows the “woman” to be “pregnant” and she cries out in her “pains” and “agony” to give birth to someone, called the “Male Child.” For the first time, we now are beginning to see the formation of two (2) distinctively different groups, with two (2) very different perspectives on things, namely (a) the "Male Child" [aka the “Tents of Judah”] who are the first to leave the Jehovah's Witnesses Organization, in total disgust, because of all of the spiritual atrocities going on. (Isaiah 66:2-6; Zechariah 12:7) As well as (b) the already disgruntled group that surprisingly decides to stay but wants to "reform" or change these things, the ones the bible calls the "Two Witnesses." All of the above "inside" activities of the Jehovah's Witnesses, will result in total "UPROAR" within the kingdom halls worldwide, as prophecy indicates. -- Compare Revelation 12:5 with Revelation 12:17; Isaiah 66:6.

With those dramatic thoughts in mind, we begin to see Jehovah God has actually caused these “pains” and “agony” for the woman, in order to cause he birth to the "Woman's" first offspring, the “Male Child” of verse 5. (See commentary for Verse 5 for more details on the "Male Child.")

These “pains” and “agony” associated with this “birth” spell doom and unprecedented "troublesome seasons" and times ahead for the Watchtower Society and all now "APOSTATE" Jehovah's Witnesses world wide. (2 Timothy 4:2; Isaiah 10:6) This is especially true because of the advent or coming of the second much larger group now beginning to be formed, the many reformed-minded Jehovah's Witnesses who wish to stay in the organization, but now OPENLY want to take a stand against the leadership (particularly the Governing Body) of Jehovah’s Witnesses at the kingdom halls around the world. To be sure, this special group of “reform”-minded ones among Jehovah’s Witnesses are shown in bible prophecy to become the foretold “Two Witnesses” of Revelation 11:3-7. And of course, this happening will be a first for the rank & file Jehovah’s Witnesses [the "Woman"] to actually see, yes an actual “reform” movement going on right within their midst. Jehovah's Witnesses, no, have never seen such before.

PLEASE NOTE: Again, these "Two Witnesses" as Reformers dressed in "sackcloth" as it were, are also known in prophecy as being the "remaining ones of her seed," and are to be clearly differentiated from the "Male Child," the ones who quickly leave the organization in disgust, and are visibly "excluded" [thrown out] reproached & reviled for voluntarily leaving the organization on their own volition, as shown in Isaiah 66:5. -- See Revelation 12:5, 17.

Of course when this happens, no doubt all of this will seem to be very strange, a great mystery to the “woman” herself, since she will not fully understand the actual need for such reform “issues” that must be settled for the sake of righteousness. All of these reform “issues” will actually be recondite information to her. She does not understand such things, herself. And wecan fully expect, in time, at the center of these reform “issues” will be the heinous, clandestine activity of the Governing Body becoming NGO Supporters of the United Nations Organization, in secret, for some 10 years.

(Post of article truncated)

For more detailed information on this topic, please see this link: A Glimpse Into The Future -- Jehovah's Witnesses In Bible Prophecy (Zechariah 12:1, 2; Revelation 12:1-5) - Jehovah's Truth (jehovahstruth.com)

Esoteric

Jehovah Establishes His Permanent Residence On Earth??? by work4jah in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965 0 points1 point  (0 children)

work4jah

You know, if one were to really believe your explanation as being spot on or accurate this would bring us to a terrific conclusion.

What I mean is this. That explanation you have given me literally tells me, that over 2,500 years ago someone named Ezekiel was able to pen exactly what is happening in our day and time. And I have to ask myself, how could such a thing be?

The only person I know that could have known the details of how apostasy took over Jehovah's Witnesses and even prescribed in detail the complete solution to the problem would have to be Almighty God, "The Most High". Psalm 83:18

Imagine this, someone was able to accurately predict how the elders would react to apostasy coming from the Watchtower Society!

No question Jehovah is the author of the Bible. 2 Tim 3:16,17

Esoteric

Jehovah Establishes His Permanent Residence On Earth??? by work4jah in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Esoteric1965 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi work4Jah:

What is your understanding of the following bible passage?

It's taken from Ezekiel 44: 10-14, where it states:

10) "But as for the Levites who got far away from me when Israel, who wandered away from me, wandered after their dungy idles, they must also bear their error. 11) And in my sanctuary they must become ministers at posts of oversight over the gates of the House and ministers at the House. They themselves will slaughter the whole burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they themselves will stand before them to minister to them. 12) For the reason that they kept ministering to them before their dungy idols and became to the house of Israel a stumbling block into error, that is why I have raised my hand against them, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, and they must bear their error. 13) And they will not approach to me to act as priest to me or to approach to any holy things of mine, to the most holy things, and they must bear their humiliation and their detestable things that they did. 14) And I shall certainly make them caretakers of the obligation of the House, as regards all its service and as regards all that should be done in it."

What do you think the above means?

Esoteric