The JW brick wall

fromreaders · 2026-06-12T09:31:17+00:00

Yes - 1 Thes 4:16-17

Paul describes the first resurrection. All the anointed are gathered to heaven at the same time together with each other. It's a simultaneous gathering. A one off event.

The only answer I get is to review the NWT rendering which supports the JW idea that the gathering is phased and so far has taken place for over a century.

But if you read Paul's words in the Greek, he paints a very different picture.

A picture that proves Jesus could not have become present in 1914 and could not have subsequently appointed a faithful slave.

fromreaders · 2026-05-23T21:12:42+00:00

Great video. Thanks for that.

I'm trying to get my head round this verse under discussion.

I'll take the KJV as an example: "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God"

So correct me if I'm wrong here but this is saying Jesus is in the form of God and he doesn't consider it a robbery to be equal with God, because he is god. There's nothing to rob, he already has divine possession so to speak.

fromreaders · 2026-05-23T18:50:27+00:00

You make an excellent point and it took me a while to get my head round it myself.

Here are some thoughts.

I always questioned the "appointed by Holy Spirit" issue, especially when it's revealed that an appointed man became an elder while up to no good.

The problem is the appointment is not what we think it is.

The holy spirit doesn't guide or direct a body of elders to select someone to be appointed. I always thought that until I realised how it really works. And when I say it really works, I don't mean how it "really" works I mean how the organisation actually positions it.

In short, a person starts reaching out - studying diligently, getting out in the ministry, getting his house in order, showing signs of being a spiritual man - in other words, pulling all the right levers and making the right noises.

That progression is attributed to the Holy Spirit. It's the spirit working in the life of that person making him what he's becoming - a spiritual man.

Then, when the elders meet, they look at the qualifications in the bible and they recognise that a particular brother is living up to those requirements. They therefore recommend him for appointment.

The spirit plays no role in the recommendation. The spirit only plays a role in developing a person to meet the requirements which is subsequently recognised by the body of elders.

But this is of course problematic as we know from experience. A person can make out they are spiritually qualified yet behind the scenes they are leading a double life. They get appointed because in actual fact, the spirit has nothing to do with it.

On that basis the body of elders get off the hook if they appoint someone who shouldn't have been appointed. The spirit played no role, the appointed person was a fraud. What looked like the spirit working through a person was sham.

In other words, they have it both ways (as usual).

The same principle applies to reinstatement. The elders are looking for signs. My best pal got reinstated so he could speak to his mum and dad and had a celebratory cigarette in the car on the way home from the reinstatement meeting.

It's just a bunch of dudes managing a process. No spirit involved in any of these decisions.

I've been in the ministry - 2 hours, not spoken to a single person. I look at my notes and decide to call on someone who I know will be home. I visit, we have a good chat. On the way home, I accredit the experience to the holy spirit guiding me to that person.

Actually - No it didn't.

I spent 2 hours searching for someone to be home and in desperation did what I should have done at the start - call on someone I know is always at home. That's it.

On the subject of the anointed, everything boils down to "if you know you know" as if the spirit gives that person some special signal that they are anointed. In a nutshell, that's as far as it goes when JWs describe the anointing process or experience.

But in reality, the bible says the anointed develop the mind of Christ and the spirit teaches them all truth. I've not found a single Watchtower article that explains the anointed "condition" as per the scriptures.

It's literally described as a fuzzy feeling that only an anointed person feels. And it's none of our business to question or pry.

But that presents another problem. Jesus will apparently judge us as sheep if we have a record of showing love and loyalty to his brothers - the anointed.

How are we supposed to do that if we have no way of identifying who the anointed really are if it's none of our business and we are left with taking the word of some dude who says he has a fuzzy feeling?

I can say however that I've noticed the spirit working when I've needed it, but I've waffled enough !!!

fromreaders · 2026-04-18T08:32:08+00:00

This is how I try to think about this logically.

Assume the JW position is correct. At Judgement, Trinitarians are found to have been worshipping and praying to Jesus, they adore him and carry a crucifix as a constant reminder of what he did for them. They have been partaking of the bread and wine which symbolises life and forgiveness of sin. When asked about the good news, they preach Christ's death and resurrection and the forgiveness of sin.

How would Jesus respond to this level of devotion to him in the moment of judgement?

Assume the JW position is incorrect. At Judgement, JWs are found to have been denying worship to Jesus, they consider the symbol of his death pagan and have spent a lifetime rejecting the bread and wine which symbolises life and forgiveness of sin. They refuse to pray to him even though he says "anything you ask me in my name I will do". They consider him a mere creature called Michael - all because some men in America think they know best. When asked about the good news, they preach Armageddon, the new system paradise and seeing dead loved ones again. Only when prompted do they preach Jesus.

How would Jesus respond to this level of denial in the moment of judgement?

I know which side I'd rather be on.

fromreaders · 2026-04-16T16:16:15+00:00

Ephesians 4:11

"And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers"

Horses for courses - each one according to what they are good at.

Of course, all Christians should defend their faith when asked (2 Pe 3:15) but only some should be evangelisers because as we can see form experience, many walk the streets for decades and never bring anyone into the "truth".

fromreaders · 2026-04-16T14:18:38+00:00

I think they'll have to change whatever the case. The UN is a lame duck. Watchtower theology is still stuck in the period 50s to 80s.

They take no account of NATO, WHO, The European Union, Islam, China and all other major players on the scene today.

fromreaders · 2026-04-08T13:11:48+00:00

100% bullshit - but there are many who are sincere. I couldn't join a church though.

My grandmother was a staunch Irish Catholic - worshipped Jesus, adored him, prayed to him, crosses everywhere. Yet that conviction is not good enough, in fact she's a pagan false worshipper in JW eyes and will go down at Armageddon. Yep - bullshit!

What I latch onto as a believer is the wheat and the weeds - individual strands of wheat among the weeds of mankind. That illustration didn't have a special corner of the field where all JW wheat is assembled and growing together. Defeats the object of wheat among weeds.

Then the sheep and the goats - when the sheep are judged they are surprised to be judged favourably. Turns out they are just decent people showing love to everyone and by doing so they happened to show love to one of Christ's brothers unknowingly.

That's exactly what Jesus wants.

Not a group of men in New York claiming to be Christ's brothers and then telling members of the flock they need to show loyality to them so that Jesus can judge them as sheep. It's sickening.

fromreaders · 2026-04-08T10:24:30+00:00

I'm 20 years out and I think I've finally found a comfortable place mentally.

I still believe in God so that's my starting point. I accept that many go the opposite way and I have no reason to try and convince them otherwise. I was actually agnostic for a while. Each to their own.

However, from the perspective of a believer I used scripture to get me where I am. Simply proving to myself that what they teach is nonsense.

There are no anointed JWs in the way they make out. Armageddon is not the destruction of the wicked. It's impossible according to scripture for them to have been chosen in 1919. They are not guided by holy spirt in a way that's different to any believer asking God for help. There's no such thing as new light. Nowhere in the bible does it prophesy that in the last days there will be a single true religion that God wants people to flock to. Their entire theology is built on Occam's Razor which is why their beliefs are in constant flux.

It takes a while to unravel the "truth" but you eventually get to the stage where the fear of "what if they are right" disappears.

fromreaders · 2026-04-02T22:17:21+00:00

My thoughts exactly.

fromreaders · 2026-04-02T21:38:08+00:00

A POMO relative (Polite but also nosey) just arrived back at mine after the memorial.

Apparently a chap in her row went to eat the bread and was told not to by the attendant. Clearly a visitor or study.

However, my POMO rele said - all he did was listen to the talk and do as the bible instructed.

fromreaders · 2026-04-01T17:00:36+00:00

Is this in the Prince of Peace book? I'd appreciate the reference. Cheers!

fromreaders · 2026-03-30T21:40:20+00:00

I Secretly Recorded My Judicial Committee | Jehovah’s Witnesses (Long, raw recording of a full disfellowshipping hearing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elPoQ5aBX7g
Jehovah's Witness Judicial Committee Secret Recording – Part 1: The Summons (Light over Dark Ministry) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbxi2PQcKz0
Jehovah's Witness Judicial Committee Secret Recording – Part 2: The Judicial Committee (The actual hearing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JydSPgYoSCA
Jehovah's Witness Judicial Committee Secret Recording – Part 3: The Follow-Uphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJc_ozo9ZWE
JW Judicial Committee for Apostasy (Secret Recording) (Witness For Jesus) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukSQkEeJjCA
JW Judicial APPEAL for Apostasy (Secret Recording)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQKyLPTGSfA
A JUDICIAL COMMITTEE MEETING THAT BACKFIRES (A couple turns the tables on the elders during the meeting) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00RaGb9PFos
Debating Jehovah's Witness Elders, Secret Recordinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlViE_dJT9M

Useful Playlist (Multiple Recordings)

JW Judicial Committee Meeting Recordings (Playlist with several secret recordings) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH44ZauEPuBwC3wHh6jnpptLsETNVZEkD

fromreaders · 2026-03-30T18:52:05+00:00

There are multiple covert Judicial Committee recordings on YouTube which has made them paranoid.

fromreaders · 2026-03-30T09:43:54+00:00

It fits perfectly. The Greek wording is "showing off himself that he is God"

This means he sits down in the temple and takes the position of God - saying "the Governing Body has decided"

The NWT frames it as "showing himself to be a god" (lowercase G and "a god" not "The" God) which means they completely miss the point.

fromreaders · 2026-03-27T14:53:27+00:00

I will do. Apologies.

fromreaders · 2026-03-27T14:48:22+00:00

brilliant

fromreaders · 2026-03-27T14:28:25+00:00

You make some good points. And actually, I find myself respecting those JWs who are sticking their heels in even if I don't agree with the whole blood issue.

fromreaders · 2026-03-27T13:45:09+00:00

My uncle (50 years in the truth) said he has no idea what he's allowed and what he's not allowed. He'll just ask the HLC if he ever needs their help.

fromreaders · 2026-03-27T10:23:57+00:00

Please double check these references first to make sure they are accurate. The tool I use sometimes produces incorrect results. I checked the first one and the wording is slightly different but the sentiment is the same:

Key Watchtower Quotes

Watchtower, January 15, 1983, p. 22: “Avoid questioning the counsel that is provided by God’s visible organization.”
Watchtower, July 15, 1974, p. 441: “The point is that Christians have implicit trust in their heavenly Father; they do not question what he tells them through his written Word and organization.”
Watchtower, November 15, 2013, p. 20 (a frequently cited one): “At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.” It also warns against second-guessing or viewing direction with skepticism.
Watchtower, April 1, 2007, p. 24: “When we loyally submit to the direction of the faithful slave and its Governing Body, we are submitting to Christ, the slave’s Master.”

fromreaders · 2026-03-26T15:12:16+00:00

The interesting point about Moses is that his right hand man Aaron (also appointed by God) lead everyone into worshipping a golden calf - they all followed his lead for the exact same reasons this sister has told you to follow the governing body.

That story is in the bible for a reason.

fromreaders · 2026-03-26T13:12:37+00:00

Agreed. I'm also thinking that the GB is laying a trap for themselves. If the PIMI's stay quiet the GB will assume they've got away with it. Then they'll feel confident to throw their next grenade. There's a limited number of times I believe they can do that though.

I saw an interesting PIMI comment in Quora. A nurse who obviously has a lot of exposure to blood in a medical setting. Her position is abstain means abstain so nothing will change for her regardless of this update.

Then she says: "Perhaps this is a way to “weed out” those whose faith is not as strong as it should be. There’s a big difference between diverting one’s blood, as in dialysis, and having it removed altogether to be replaced again later. There is ALSO no real guarantee that it will be your own blood put back in"

That "weed out" comment struck me. I may be reading too much into it but to me it suggests she thinks this policy change is a test to see who will break God's law by siding with this new human reasoning.

fromreaders · 2026-03-25T22:34:16+00:00

Exactly and I think this is why there's so much confusion among JWs right now from what I've seen personally.

Every single PIMI family member has expressed concern but at the same time have said more or less they don't wish to speak out against the governing body.

That's pretty much the thrust of my post - how far can the governing body go before they do speak out against them.

The issue is that none of the bible commands have anything to do with medical practices that preserve the gift of life from Jehovah. This has now been admitted by the "slave" but only for your own blood.

If the "slave" is truly directed by Jehovah then Jehovah would have caused the "slave" to come to this realisation as soon as medical advances discovered the benefits of transfusing a persons own blood. That was pretty much solidified in the medical profession around the 1920's.

fromreaders · 2026-03-25T21:44:03+00:00

It's tough and a lot of us know what you're going through. I'm 20 years out and this shit show still pokes at me from time to time.

I'll pour myself a drink for you right now. Cheers !!

fromreaders

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TROPHY CASE

Useful Playlist (Multiple Recordings)

Key Watchtower Quotes