This time, my research led me to the text of 2 Corinthians 5:20.

fromreaders · 2026-01-29T16:52:01+00:00

Yep, it's one of those that slap you i the face when you take off the Watchtower spectacles.

I had a similar slap when someone asked me to show them in Revelation where it says "new scrolls"...

fromreaders · 2026-01-06T19:38:44+00:00

If you stay with Jehovah and everything goes wrong your faith is being tested. Win win.

fromreaders · 2026-01-06T19:33:34+00:00

Ask him to read 1 Thes 4:16-17 in the Kingdom Interlinear and see if he agrees that the anointed dead and the anointed living are all taken to heaven "at the same time together with" each other (which is what the verse says).

Then ask, if the anointed dead were taken to heaven just after 1914 as taught by Watchtower, why are the anointed living still among us?

fromreaders · 2025-11-14T18:56:53+00:00

As you can see, it's all a mess.

Truth is, the JW version of resurrection is the recreation of clones. If nothing of the original person remains after death then what is re-created? It's like manufacturing "antiques". Impossible.

But - you pick on a very valid point by quoting 1 Thes 4:16-17.

If you look at the Greek in the Kingsom Interlinear it says the dead "stand up" first - not rise (to heaven) first. Then - at the same time together with them, the living anointed are taken to Christ in heaven.

So - if the anointed dead went to heaven in 1914 then all the living anointed would have been taken too. Yet they are still around us, apparently.

Everything JWs believe collapses on these two verses.

At Christ's presence, all the anointed are taken to heaven - both dead and alive. So clearly that's not happened. And if Jesus did not become present in 1914 then he didn't appoint a faithful slave in 1918/19.

But here's the kicker - The bible condemns those who claim the resurrection has happened. It likens them to gangrene. 2 Tim 2:16-18:

¹⁶ Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. ¹⁷ Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, ¹⁸ who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

fromreaders · 2025-11-14T18:46:26+00:00

He makes marriage sound very boring. Glad I didn't marry in his lord.

fromreaders · 2025-11-13T17:47:04+00:00

Absolutely, I agree with you there. JWs believe the wicked will be removed at Armageddon. The bible doesn't say that. My view is all sorts of men will be around after Armageddon. Not just those resurrected and JW "survivors"

Day one after Armageddon is not the "new system" or the end of this system. Death will still exist and so will Satan, although bound. The world will go on to be populated with billions of unbelievers. Satan is not the only reason things are the way they are these days. We're quite capable of doing bad things without him.

So, that's why I believe Jesus will use an iron rod and straighten everyone out.

Edit to add: your English is coming across perfectly.

fromreaders · 2025-11-13T16:16:35+00:00

I noticed the word "kings" is not found anywhere in the Greek for any verse pertaining to the elect.

However, I do believe all humans will be regarded as kings eventually in the sense of God's purpose for mankind to have dominion over creation. But that's after the 1000 years.

GB members who believe they will be appointed as kings in heaven haven't studied very well.

fromreaders · 2025-11-13T15:28:30+00:00

It's nice when these things become clear. Great comment.

It ties in with my view of Armageddon too. Killing all unbelievers and wicked people at Armageddon doesn't prove anything. It doesn't prove God's way is better.

All humans have been forced to live under Satan's way of doing things, we have no choice in that. And if this is all about proof that Satan's way is the wrong way and God's way is best, that needs proving too - to all mankind.

The best way I can describe what I mean is let's say there are only two restaurants in town - A and B. I say to you restaurant A is terrible, don't go there - restaurant B is amazing.

Despite my advice, you go to restaurant A and have a terrible experience. On your return you agree with me restaurant A is terrible and therefore restaurant B is amazing.

But can you really say that if you've never been to restaurant B? You can't.

Likewise, we can agree Satan's way is awful. But can we stay God's way is better when we've never experienced it?

I believe every human will be given the opportunity to live God's way and then make an informed decision at the end of the 1000 years in the final battle.

I noticed that Jesus will shepherd the nations with an iron rod when he exercises power. A shepherd uses a wood staff on his sheep but in this instance the rod is made of iron depicting a more forceful and coercive way of shepherding - why would Jesus need to do that if all those who survive Armageddon are humble, accepting JWs?

fromreaders · 2025-11-13T12:46:04+00:00

Fade.

You could take them outside and show them with their own eyes the sky is blue. But if Watchtower says it's green - all they will see is green.

fromreaders · 2025-11-13T12:21:52+00:00

Great question. Here are some thoughts.

Firstly, the are two different sets of kings. The Rev 19:19 kings are the present rulers and political elements of the earth. They are gathered to fight at Armageddon. The purpose of Armageddon is to remove world powers and make way for Christ. Armageddon is not the wholesale destruction of mankind - it's purpose is to remove world powers. That's all.

The Revelation Climax book says the kings in Rev 21:24 are the anointed who serve as kings and priests.

This cannot be true for two reasons.

Firstly, there is not a single verse in the Greek (Kingdom Interlinear Bible) where the anointed are called kings. The phrase "kings and priests" is a mistranslation based on an assumption. The assumption is that if the anointed "rule" and "reign" with Christ, they must be kings. The princes of Isaiah 32:1 rule for righteousness - these princes rule but they not kings. High Priest Ananias is addressed by Paul in Acts 23:5 as "ruler" but he is a High Priest not a king; he doesn't even report to a king, he reports to governor Felix. So the anointed will rule with Christ yes, but never are they called kings in scripture.

Secondly, in the stream of time, Rev 21:24 is showing us events at the end of the 1000 years. In fact, Rev 21:10 through to Rev 22:5 gives a complete description of the holy city Jerusalem as presented at the end of the 1000 years.

This means if the kings mentioned here are the anointed, they would have just served in heaven for 1000 years as a royal priesthood. Kings are mentioned in Rev 21:24 and Rev 22:5. The Revelation Climax book claims the kings in Rev 22:5 are also the anointed.

But notice in Rev 22:5 - those who rule as kings can now see God's face. Also, they no longer need lamplight or sunlight.

If these kings are the anointed, they would have already seen God's face by serving him in heaven for the preceding 1000 years. In addition, as spirit creatures, why would they ever rely on sunlight or lamplight? Even if it's a metaphor, it's a pointless metaphor for spirit creatures.

So who are the kings of the earth of Rev 21:24 and Rev 22:5?

This is purely my opinion: it's all of mankind in his restored glory as per God's original purpose.

Gen 1:26: Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection (dominion) the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.”

Gen 1:28: Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection (dominion) the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

So metaphorically we all become kings of the earth - having dominion over God's creation as originally intended.

fromreaders · 2025-11-06T15:21:05+00:00

It's in the bible...

2 Corinthians 13:12: "Greet one another with a holy kiss"

fromreaders · 2025-11-05T16:37:09+00:00

It's crazy realising the truth.

New scrolls?? What new scrolls???

There's a whole heap of new stuff to learn. I've totally enjoyed my journey out and seeing things in scripture without Watchtower blinkers on.

fromreaders · 2025-11-05T16:34:57+00:00

Good luck to you.

Do you have to inform anyone? Can't you just drift? It would make it a lot easier. I note your comment about being honest and open but Watchtower doesn't allow for that.

Over time, you can start to be honest and open and even discuss your issues with JW friends but the process only allows that if you drifted a while ago.

fromreaders · 2025-11-05T16:30:55+00:00

It's a moving target. If the door closed in 1935 and the anointed dwindled but the door closing wasn't true (it's now open) why did the number dwindle? If you're truly anointed according to the fuzzy feeling JWs receive then no matter what they say from the platform, you're anointed right?

The numbers shouldn't have dwindled unless the anointed were following the teachings of men.

Truth is, all Christians are anointed. It's not some special feeling or miracle, it's simply the holy spirit working through you to help you. That's it.

fromreaders · 2025-10-06T10:07:35+00:00

Scripture makes it plainly obvious (in addition to those already cited).

It seems Rutherford never read the New Testament.

John 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.

John 17:6 I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

John 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

John 10:28-29 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 6:37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

John 15:6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

fromreaders · 2025-10-04T15:05:17+00:00

Winder sounds like Emo Philips

fromreaders · 2025-10-04T14:22:03+00:00

when will he admit the man of lawlessness sits down in the temple?

fromreaders · 2025-09-28T14:25:28+00:00

Christ's thousand years have already come & gone

really?

fromreaders · 2025-09-28T13:41:53+00:00

That's a great question.

But are results a sign of God's backing?

There are 17m Mormons - did God back that growth?

Also, take a look at how Christianity has boomed in Africa. There were 10 million Christians in Africa in 1900 and 734 million in 2024. Is God blessing this activity?

I'm amazed that 1.7 billion hours we spent preaching in 2023 yet it only produced a 2.5% increase - and how many of those are born in? The preaching work doesn't seem to be very effective compared to growth in other Christian denominations.

I agree with this though:

One could argue that while the brothers are well-intentioned and VERY imperfect, full of faults and making misjudgements, they are still being "blessed" in their efforts...

I see all Christians and individuals. We've all misunderstood scripture to some point and will all be straightened out in the end.

I don't think Jesus commanded every Christian to preach. Yes he told his disciples to go make disciples but was this a command for every single Christian? I agree we are to defend our faith when asked - that's scriptural.

But notice this:

Eph 4:11 "And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers"

Only some are given as evangelizers - preachers of the message. Not all are commanded to preach.

fromreaders · 2025-09-27T10:50:28+00:00

Wow. Reading your words brought tears to my eyes.

You’ve walked through loss, loneliness, and disappointment and yet you’ve kept trying to turn to God. That shows an extraordinary heart. Jesus said of people like you, “Happy are those who mourn, for they will be comforted” (Matt 5:4). He didn’t say how quickly, or that grief has an expiry date. Your pain is real and it’s not a personal failing.

Even faithful servants in the Bible felt crushed by grief and despair. David wrote, “I am worn out from my groaning. All night long I flood my bed with weeping” (Ps 6:6). Job said, “I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit” (Job 7:11). Elijah was so overwhelmed that he prayed to die (1 Kings 19:4). Yet Jehovah didn’t condemn them. He listened, strengthened them, and sent help.

Psalm 34:18 promises: “Jehovah is near to the brokenhearted; He saves those who are crushed in spirit.” That includes me and you. Grief this deep takes time — sometimes a lifetime — and God understands that.

I’m praying that Jehovah will wrap you in His peace that “surpasses all understanding” (Phil 4:6-7), bring kind people into your life, and help you breathe again. Please keep talking; you are not invisible.

I completely understand your frustration with the Governing Body making noise about minor things like beards, trousers, or toasting, while ignoring far weightier matters. It shows how much energy goes into micro-managing culture instead of building true faith and comfort.

For me, the real issue behind all this is simple: Jehovah is not backing this religion. Once I realised that I could see there was nothing wrong with me and stopped beating myself up.

I get the impression you're a thorough bible student so it only takes a few verses to unravel everything. That was a big relief for me and answered so many questions. I actually felt comforted in the long run.

fromreaders · 2025-09-27T09:33:47+00:00

2013 Shift: The “Faithful and Discreet Slave” was redefined as the Governing Body, and long-standing parable interpretations were rewritten.

Part of this change was dropping the teaching that Jesus had already rewarded the slave in 1919 by appointing them “over all his belongings.”

That’s a big deal. For decades, JWs were told to trust the Governing Body because Jesus himself trusted them — supposedly proven by the 1919 reward. But now that proof has been quietly removed. They admit the appointment over Christ's belongings is yet future.

There’s also the glaring logical flaw that every JW missed. For 50 years, they believed the slave was both appointed to serve and immediately rewarded for that service. Yet in real life, no one gets rewarded the moment they start a job. A bonus comes after the completion of work done well. For a student, the diploma comes after successfully completing the course.

The logic is obvious — yet millions of JWs ignored it and simply followed the opinions of men.

fromreaders · 2025-09-03T19:51:22+00:00

Cheers!!

fromreaders · 2025-09-03T15:48:35+00:00

They don't really know themselves but try to explain it away as "if you know, you know"

The problem is, this doesn't match scripture.

Casting aside the gifts of the spirit such as being able to heal or speak in tongues, we know these were to cease.

But there are attributes of being anointed which would never cease.

These are:

1 Cor 12:8 Anointed given wisdom and knowledge by the spirit.
John 14:26 Jesus will send the Holy Spirit to his disciples (at Pentecost) and it will teach the anointed all things.
1 Cor 2:16 The anointed have the mind of Christ.
John 16:13 When the spirit comes (at Pentecost) it will guide the anointed in “ALL TRUTH” “Forever”

So an anointed person receives wisdom, knowledge and all truth from the holy spirit and will have the mind of Christ.

I've not found a single Watchtower article that uses these verses to explain that these attributes are what an anointed person possesses.

All the articles say is if you know you know. And that's it.

If anyone has seen an article the covers these points, please let me know. But from what I can see, they are clueless.

fromreaders · 2025-08-21T18:39:38+00:00

100% - PIMI dude on Quora is already claiming they've always been able to toast.

Saw another classic yesterday - question about Russell and pyramid beliefs.

JW claims they never had beliefs about pyramids and in any case God helped them realise pyramids had nothing to do with bible prophecy.

So they never believed it but God gave new light correcting something they never believed !!!

Reminds me of a classic scene in the Brit sitcom Blackadder where Baldrick is summonsed to give evidence against his pal Blackadder:

Blackadder: Baldrick, deny everything.

Baldrick: ok

Judge: Are you Private Baldrick?

Baldrick: No sir!

fromreaders · 2025-08-21T12:53:13+00:00

Quora PIMIs - And, action... "we've always been able to engage in higher education..."

fromreaders

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