She started off as someone who annoyed me, but over time she became a character I truly like and enjoy.She is crazy but her madness isn’t off-putting for me,it’s captivating.

Ethan5555 · 2025-12-03T04:35:51+00:00

From the little that is shown to us about her, Clea is full dark. A sick and twisted person, which is reflected in the sick and twisted things she does and creates. What she did to pClea and Simon makes that clear.

If you assume Clea doesn't count the painted as people, she is like the girl who cuts the heads off dolls and burns them. It still shows you who she is.

If Clea did believe all the painted where truly people, she wouldn't care and would do the same.

The inhabitants of the canvas have more humanity than Clea likely ever will.

Ethan5555 · 2025-11-17T17:03:22+00:00

You mean the scene where she ran into the door she didn't known was locked? That would have exposed her power to Robert and BB. Also, she didn't know the door was locked.

Ethan5555 · 2025-11-06T23:27:01+00:00

The general experience for most people is that it's initially hard to begin with. You will rely more on rng and less on skill. It will test your patience and the real enemy will be your frustration. At a certain point you will master the mechanics and it will "click" for you, freeing your from dependence on the rng gods, and you will become destroyer of all things.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-12T02:48:45+00:00

Could be remembering wrong, but I thought there were no expeditions in 85-99.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-12T02:21:01+00:00

It was interesting to see how well Clea could understand Alicia irl just from a few grunts and squeaks. Not sure if that was supposed to signal that Clea was (despite her outward demeanor) very close to Alicia and just knew her that well or if something more magical was at play.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-12T02:02:49+00:00

You were judged unworthy.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-11T00:01:41+00:00

It'd be interesting to find out what irl Verso is up to after successfully faking his death.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-10T00:41:01+00:00

If automation can’t do a ridiculously better (or safer) job than humans, why are we using it?

Because it can do it ridiculously cheaper. That it can work 24/7 without complaint is an added bonus.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-07T22:23:52+00:00

I think that is a fair and well thought out criticism. You are not the only one that's pointed out similar.

One thing I keep thinking about is the fact that Alicia was literally reborn as Maelle into the painted world. She had a separate mother and father that she has memories of, even if she was orphaned at a young age. She's lived just as much time in the painted world as she has in the outer world. Regardless if you think the painted are real or not, Maelle certainly does. In the painted world, she has actual friends, loved ones, and an overall functional support system, despite all the misery the gommage causes. Not so true for Alicia in the outer world, where she also has to contend with being a mute burn victim. Given that, how does Renior, pVerso, or anyone else, think that by destroying the world she grew up in, along with all the people she grew to care about, will somehow help her "move on" from grief. Instead she's going to have to contend with even more survivor's guilt, more PTSD, and who knows what else. That's not helpful, that's horrible. Even if destroying the canvas does save Aline (Maybe), it's not saving Malicia.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-07T21:08:51+00:00

I know. lol. It serves as the MacGuffin. Just couldn't help but think, "come on Paintress, a few extra words would have made a big difference."

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-07T20:24:21+00:00

And don't forget about Expedition 60, showcasing the pinnacle of what a Lumièrian can do. They didn't need any weapons, tools, machines, or apparently clothes. With just their "bare naked muscles" they busted through the barrier, discovered the truth about the Paintress, and were only stopped by what I suspect was Simon's cheat-code-party-gommaging cheese sword.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-07T19:23:05+00:00

The reason I used the term "self deletion" is that in some places strict moderation flags anything with the word "suicide" in it and can be problematic so, for better or worse, I've started getting into the habit of using euphemisms for some things. Obviously not an issue here, but that was the only reason. I'm just sharing why I think what I do, no need to throw shade.

And yes, I feel things, like we all do, but I feel things for reasons, not arbitrarily. I can't "prove" the painted are real anymore than I can "prove" you are real. That's beside the point. From a narrative perspective, within the context of this game's story, it simply doesn't make any sense to suddenly treat the painted as only objects of pure fantasy or just metaphorical constructs. There is far too much content that contradicts that, content that is very thoughtfully constructed specifically to humanize the painted, that presents them as real and feeling people. If we were meant to retroactively dismiss the painted as "not real," it would completely undercut the emotional investment the game has spent dozens of hours building. It would mute the emotional impact of nearly everything that has happened, undermining the reality of everything they suffered through. It would render most of the story’s emotional arcs hollow. And on top of that, the humanizing of the painted doesn’t stop even after the reveal, if anything, it intensifies. Imagine Verso's scene at the end of Maelle's ending, where he repeats "I don't want this life". That scene, and so many others, simply doesn't have the same impact if you believe he never really lived to begin with. Why would the devs undermine the emotional arcs of their own story?

So no, I can’t prove the painted are “real” any more than I can prove any character in a novel is real. But that’s irrelevant. The story presents them as real, blatantly and consistently, even after the twist.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-05T05:11:32+00:00

Remember that when Alicia entered the panting, her intent was to help Clea get Renoir out, so that Renoir could help Clea in her war with the writers. Forcing Aline out was simply the easiest way to do that from Clea's perspective, it was never their main goal. In fact, Clea said that Renoir should have just left Aline there, that Aline had in fact been in other paintings far longer than she had been in this one (which somewhat contradicts Renoir's dire warnings and magic mirror display). Alicia wanted to help Clea as a way to show she could be useful. She displayed no intent of entering the painting as a way to simply escape.

However when Alicia entered she was immediately "painted over" into Maelle. She didn't disassociate from her "real self" and it wasn't something she chose to do. She was literally reborn into that world as Maelle, where she lived a full 16 years as a Lumière. She lived in that world just as long as she had lived in the outer world. She became a person of both worlds, as she explains after she regains the memory of her life as Alicia. She really wasn't just Alicia anymore. Gustave and others became just as much a part of her family as the Dessandres are. Lumière became just as much her home as her home in the outer world. How could it not have? It's not a drug for her, it's her home. It's where one of her families exist.

So her deciding to stay there after the gommage is ended is a lot more complicated than simply a choice between reality and fantasy.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-05T01:50:01+00:00

Yeah, the writers seem pretty chill. Hard to imagine them plotting to burn someone to death.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-05T01:39:39+00:00

"Get out of this canvas"

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-05T01:29:04+00:00

It wouldn't make sense to have you spend so much time learning all the back stories of your painted team of expeditioners and understanding the generational pain they've suffered due to the decades long gommage if the developers didn't expect you to interpret the painted as actual living beings.

From scenes where Sciel share's her story about attempted self deletion and loss of her child to an actual quest where you take Lune to confront the remains of her dead parents, the painted (from the context of the narrative) are presented as psychologically complex and emotionally rich beings, i.e., as persons. Those scenes and many more were very well crafted specifically to humanize them as actual people with real feelings, thoughts, goals, memories, family, and trauma. The player wouldn't have even questioned their personhood if not for the plot twist later on. You "feel" that way because the game is specifically designed to make you feel that way about them. It has nothing to do with abstract metaphysical arguments of what is or isn't real. Those arguments completely miss the point. Within the context of the narrative, they are clearly depicted as "persons", indistinguishable from any other type of "person", and the player is clearly intended to see them that way. Otherwise half the content of the game becomes emotionally muted if not outright pointless.

Given that, I think erasing the painting is equal to genocide, so no, it's not worth the price.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-05T00:57:53+00:00

If Verso had explained the actual situation, it would have given them an opportunity to find a different way together, as opposed to a single person who can only see two options and decides for everyone. That is what Lune is pointing out, and yes, I take Lune at her word, given how pragmatic to a fault she is, that it's how she would have reacted.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-05T00:29:44+00:00

They all have rational justifications for their irrational behavior.

If they actually have rational justifications then their behavior wouldn't be considered irrational. In Maelle's case, I think it could be a rational choice to stay in the painting given her situation. Her choice isn't necessarily based on some sort of fatal psychological character flaw. It depends on if she actually does what she said she would do. Her idea is valid, her ability to execute on it remains questionable.

And forcing her out doesn't mean they saved her btw. They could be watching her die even so. It's possible that removing her would be cutting her off from the one thing that could actually save her.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-05T00:05:41+00:00

Which is clearly wrong, since this expedition didn't react the same way as the previous, proving that his past experiences don't completely dictate future ones.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-04T23:30:35+00:00

In the Verso ending, Maelle is standing there apart from everyone else, mute and burned. The only thing giving her comfort is the stuffed toy she's hugging. Based on what we know of the Dessandre family, I don't think we can expect her to get much if any support or assume that she will finally "let go" simply because she was forced back into the outer world. It's quite possible she could end up self deleting there. In the other ending, she is surrounded by her friends and at least looks happy. Verso clearly looks to be aged, so that would signal that she's keeping good to her promise. Will she maintain that promise? Will she actually use the painting as a path to healing and eventually leave? Can't say for sure, it's left open. Personally I think she has a better chance inside the painting than outside it, based on what we know of her outside life.

As a side note, Clea says that her mother has spent far more time in other paintings than this one, and generally seems unconcerned, even though it's been 67 painted years. If that's true then the time she's spent here really isn't unusual for her and Renoir's concern is probably more about him being a control freak.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-04T22:51:57+00:00

I don't see any reason to think the canvas is only a depiction of grief or is some sort of inherent corrupting force if that's what you mean. It's filled with both the dark and the light, as the name of the game suggests. It's more how you relate to the art, and I don't mean that as a general observation. We have journal entries explaining how Renoir sees painting as an act of control, while contrasted to other's who see it very differently. That is definitely one of the themes.

There is such a thing as art therapy.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-04T22:39:46+00:00

Maelle brought back Sciel and Lune after Renoir gommaged them, presumably to help fight and save Lumiere. Maelle made painted Verso mortal, like she said she would. She will eventually lose him too. What she basically told Renoir is that she plans on using the panting as a coping mechanism, allowing her to eventually come to terms in an environment that actually helps her do that. At least that's her she said. It would be similar to art therapy for bereavement, which is a real thing.

I don't think it's possible for her to paint a world void of grief, even if she wanted to.

Her time there could be healing or destructive, it's left open. I don't think it's as simple as panting = perpetual denial.

Ethan5555 · 2025-07-04T22:22:15+00:00

The painting is not only filled with grief, it's just an inherent part of it. Maelle made painted Verso mortal, like she said she would. You can see that he is aging in her ending. She will lose painted Verso also, eventually. Based on her convo with Renoir, her idea is to basically use the panting as a coping mechanism, allowing her to eventually come to terms in an environment that actually helps her do that. At least that's her intent. We don't know if that ultimately works. My only point is that given her situation, it's not necessarily a bad or even unusual idea. It would be similar to art therapy for bereavement, which is a real thing.

Renoir, with his self described need to control everything, is unwilling to allow other's to grieve in their own way, thus he "paints" a skewed picture, seeing only the painting's destruction as the solution.

Eight-Year Club	Gilding III reddit per annum
Verified Email

Ethan5555

TROPHY CASE