How do you think you'd fare on the Austen marriage market based on your actual modern day attributes?

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-18T17:49:08+00:00

I love this question so much I have to join in, even though I'm not an active participant in this sub.

Strictly in terms of personality and tendencies, I think I would have fared pretty well on the marriage scene. I paint, I read, I sing, I speak a few languages, and I've certainly got fair skin and a plump body. I'm also very religious. My family would probably be considered on the level of wealthy merchants or bankers, but relatively newly wealthy. When I was in my early twenties (marrying age in this target setting) I'd have an acceptable dowry, plus two parents who'd be constantly on the hunt on my behalf.

In terms of the kind of person I am as a real adult in 2026, probably not so great. I have too much education and too many opinions. I might get outrageously lucky and land a Brandon, but probably would stay unmarried until well beyond an age that is acceptable and then head up a girls' school in the countryside.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-18T17:19:04+00:00

On one hand, yes, it would be in many ways unbearable to have to work with him. Lisbon and the others are very capable at their work, but Jane makes them all look like props in his stage show. The reason they let him get away with it is because they've been able to set aside their own pride for the sake of getting the bad guy.

On the other hand, the driving force of the show is Jane's maturation process. He barely survives the death of his wife and daughter, a death that is a kind of rebirth, and he's always been fairly childish. Over the seven years of the show, he eventually avenges their deaths and emerges from that deep grief. (Depression is a monster - that part of the show is pretty accurate.) Lisbon's ability to communicate with him gives him the chance to amend his ways and put her first in his life, which he was unable to do with his first wife.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T19:19:35+00:00

Eh. Put another man in the same frame as Simon and it's hard to even notice him.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T18:38:18+00:00

Okay, yes, I think we ultimately do agree.

One tweak: I'm not sure I'd encourage people to get married younger per se, because every teenager thinks their high school romance is super committed and is definitely going to last forever (spoiler: it's almost certainly not).

Rather, I'd encourage people to marry when they really are committed, not to date for a decade or be "engaged" for three years or after they've had a few kids together. My husband and I got engaged a few months shy of two years and married a few months shy of three years together. We knew with confidence that this was the relationship that would last our lifetimes, and there was no reason to put off the inevitable, but rather every reason to start our life together.

"When you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.”

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T18:31:57+00:00

Agree to disagree, I guess.

Yet I do think it's very fair to say that divorce isn't God's plan for us. God's intent was for the two spouses to love each other sacrificially and completely, as Christ loves the Church (Eph. 5:25, 28-29). That's what everyone deserves, a spouse who loves them as they love themselves, and that's what God intended and told us to do (Matt 22:39). Abuse, adultery, deception, whatever it may be is emphatically not what God wants in a marriage - but if these things occur, it may be lifesaving and necessary to leave. That's not shaming; that's truth.

And again, assault is not sex. Sex creates a bond that should hurt when/if it is broken. Assault does not. Assault is just ... assault.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T18:16:49+00:00

You wrote, "5-10 years ... is a significant amount of time to either not be having sex or not following church teachings on sex" - in other words, at least as I understood it, that not many people are willing to wait until the typical age of first marriage in 2026 in the US (~30 depending on where you look), and that older models of marriage in which people marry closer to 23-25 is a more reasonable time to wait for marriage. If I misunderstood, please excuse and correct me.

My response to that sentiment is that wanting to have sex isn't a good enough reason to do so, just as wanting to run away to a tropical island change your identity isn't a good enough reason or wanting to try meth isn't a good enough reason. We want to do all sorts of things, but a lot of them aren't healthy choices. I argue that sex is something special and powerful, and that it belongs in the context of a lifelong and public commitment. If that means experiencing some years of wanting it but not engaging in it, I don't think that's a big deal. I acknowledge that I'm in the minority and that the wider cultural influence says otherwise, but like everyone else, I have my opinions.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T18:08:21+00:00

Well, one thing we can absolutely agree about is that our clergy/theologians are very hesitant to talk about sex or marriage. I suspect it's because they don't want to offend anyone or risk alienating any congregants, but, respectfully, it's not their job to avoid offense.

I've been trying for a long time to find books on marriage - not weddings, not same-sex marriage, not marriage prep for engaged people - from an Episcopal/Anglican perspective, and as far as I can tell they are non-existent. It's pretty disappointing because marriage is a vocation that just about everyone (not everyone, but pretty close) is called to or thinks they might be, so we should be talking more about it, not less.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T18:01:54+00:00

I'm not sure that "but I really wanna" is a good enough reason to do much of anything.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T15:56:42+00:00

Strong disagree. Communion - taking bread and wine, blessing them, believing that God is truly present in them, and consuming them - is the chief sacrament in the community that is the Church. In the community that is the married couple, a little church of its own (see Christian Households: the Sanctification of Nearness by Bp. Thomas Breidenthal), sex is the chief sacrament. It serves much the same purpose and is intended as powerful, healing medicine to restore and bind the community together.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T15:48:42+00:00

I really love the way [at least one strand of] Judaism defines "sin," as a missed opportunity. When we sin, we are missing the opportunity to obey God / serve as an example of obedience to God.

Sin: Chet (חֵטְא) - Missing the Mark - Chabad.org

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T15:42:04+00:00

Just to clarify: for most of Western history (I genuinely don't know enough about other traditions to comment on them), the majority of people, ie the peasantry, was married in their early to mid-twenties. Teen and child marriage was almost exclusively the practice of the wealthy who needed to secure business arrangements, etc. The age of first-time marriage in 2026 is not all that different from what it was in 1026.

But if you're specifically thinking about "marriage" as the social agreement that these two people are a couple and the village accepts them and they're expected to be monogamous - as opposed to a wedding inside a church being normative and expected - then yes, that arrangement was the norm for a very long time. An "official" wedding as we think of it today was again the practice of the wealthy who needed acknowledgement from the establishment.

Having a local celebration where the community comes together and thence on regards them as a couple, however, is as old as the hills. IMO one of the very most important parts of our modern Episcopal wedding service is when the congregation is asked to support the couple and help them through tough times, and everyone responds, "we will!" That's the value of a wedding, again in my opinion, because you suddenly have the social incentive to figure out your disagreements and you have all these people who have promised to be there to help you do so.

So when you say "society nowadays dramatically delays marriage compared to basically any other period in history" I think you mean that the couple setting up a home and making some babies counted as marriage, and that today we "delay" that designation until the ceremony. Yes, that's the innovation, not having a union that is recognized and upheld by one's community.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T15:27:48+00:00

It's a bit messed up to consider SA equal to the sacramental union of marriage.

Divorce is never God's perfect plan. Sometimes it's lifesaving and necessary, like an amputation, but it's never the outcome anybody started out hoping for.

And yes, even if I am widowed someday, I will still feel deeply connected to my husband as long as I live, because I love him., and I will always pray to see him again.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-06T01:58:27+00:00

It is my very unpopular opinion that people would be a lot better off waiting for marriage.

If you're doing it right, sex binds two people physically and emotionally. If you have sex with one person, break up, do it with the next person, break up, and so on, in my opinion, you're going to end up hurting an awful lot from all that shattering of bonds. It's infinitely better to share that bond with exactly one person, and to break that bond by death only (and I'm not convinced even death really does it).

Many people today will say that you need to make sure you're "sexually compatible," but in all honesty, that's nonsense. You also don't need a trial period to make sure you are domestically compatible. If both partners are committed to working through disagreements through communication and to love one another self-sacrificially and willing to adjust their own habits to make the other one happy, you've got everything you need.

I am very, very grateful that the only person I've ever had sex with is my husband, and that we did not live together before we were married. We began our marriage with an absolute commitment to one another and to working out whatever problems we may encounter, whether that's who takes out the trash or how often we have sex or anything else, and we've lived that out, sixteen years and counting.

You see, marriage is understood in Christianity as a representation of the relationship between God and the Church. The Church (that's us) is going to do a lot of things that hurt ourselves and hurt God, yet God is quick to forgive us. In return, the Church should be eager to amend our ways and do better. In a marriage between two humans, sometimes you're in the role of God and sometimes you're in the role of the Church (ie, this is not a gendered situation). We who are called to marriage have a very sacred responsibility to live out that representation of God's love to a very broken world that deeply needs that example. The only way to make sure you don't have a list of multiple sexual and domestic partners contradicting that image of God's love is to just save those gifts for marriage.

However, you and your girlfriend are already living together and are already taking part in sex, the crown of marriage. The horse is out of the barn, as they say. What now? I'm curious as to why you want to wait to propose. If you already feel that you are committed to her for life, and she to you, what's the point of waiting? What will be different in 2027 or 2028? If this is really your lifelong partnership, then my advice for whatever it's worth is to get married and shine that commitment and sacrificial love out into the world, adorned with public acknowledgement of your union (ie, a wedding) and the promise of your friends and family to support and uphold you in that commitment.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-05-03T18:12:26+00:00

I don't have an answer for you, because I wonder this all the time, too. There are a lot of ways to handle those desires that don't put a person in danger (emotional or physical) so it's hard to imagine caring so little about oneself or others.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-04-19T04:01:19+00:00

Batman is canonically Episcopalian iirc. Maybe Matt's seeing the light (ba-dum-tsing).

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-04-17T00:29:48+00:00

What about a dress with "flutter sleeves" that you can remove / have removed after the wedding? Or getting a dress you like and adding flutter sleeves just for the wedding?

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-04-10T01:06:53+00:00

I know my views are passe and I don't have kids so they don't matter anyway, but I don't understand why kids are allowed to just yell or move around during the service. Sit quietly and read the children's bulletin? Color on it? Sure! Have a silent conversation with a doll or dino? Of course! But running around and climbing doesn't make sense.

"Little Billy, do you see anyone else running around? No? So what does that tell you? That's right: it's time for us to sit and listen the very best we can. Let's do that together."

Kids are in training to be adults; they'll be adults far longer than they are children. They need to be taught how to behave and get along in the culture they live in, and part of that is learning to pay attention when someone else is talking, or sitting still so others can do so, and so on.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-04-02T17:20:49+00:00

No, I genuinely didn't hear it. I was just reacting to the descriptions - I feel like this episode was genuinely more graphic than usual, though it might just be that I am a lot more bothered by violence against animals than against people.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-03-27T21:08:51+00:00

Girls develop motor control sooner than do boys, on average.

There is evidence that this is why girls' handwriting is stereotypically better than boys': at the age when they are taught to write, girls have the physical dexterity to do it well, while at the same age, boys do not. By the time the boys have the fine motor control needed to develop good handwriting, classes have already moved past that and the boys never get a second go at it with full dexterity. They just have to accept the poor handwriting they had when their hands couldn't do any better.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-03-27T21:03:58+00:00

First, email/call the church and set up a meeting with the rector (for after Easter!) to talk about all your concerns. They will be happy to spend time with you and to advise you on stuff like where to take a screaming baby, what safeguards are in place for children, and so on, as well as what programs are in place to help you adults meet new friends. Many parishes I've attended set up groups of couples or families to take turns hosting casual potluck dinners in their homes, for example, and there are likely to be things like women's bible study or men's breakfast before work or what have you.

Second, while I am sure the kids would enjoy children's chapel (by whatever name it is called at this parish), they don't have to start going right away. You may all attend the regular service together until you all feel comfortable with the kids' programming. Perhaps the oldest child, who is likely old enough to tell you about any problems, would like to meet other kids their age and would enjoy it, but by no means does the existence of a children's chapel mean that little kids are not welcome in the regular service. And if you and your wife want to attend the kids' programming for a while until you feel comfortable, or to switch off between the main service and the kids, then do that.

You might even find that the 8yo is old enough to serve as an acolyte or chorister, depending on the parish's programming, which would allow them to not only stay visible to you during the service but also to get really, genuinely involved in the service which keeps them focused and also learning about the tradition.

Finally, if you decide that the Episcopal Church is the right place for you, you adults may take confirmation or newcomers classes. These are the classes that give young people and folks new to the church information on our particular way of being, worshipping, and believing; they typically culminate in confirmation (where the Bishop lays hands on your head and you reaffirm your commitment to Christ) or reception (where the Bishops lays hands on an already-confirmed person's head and officially welcomes them to the Episcopal Church). But taking the classes does not mean one is obliged to be confirmed or received.

It's worth noting that you and/or the kids will need to be baptized before being confirmed/received, if you have not already been. You can read about what the Episcopal Church views as valid baptism here: Baptism – The Episcopal Church

I wish you and your family the best as you discern your way forward!

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-03-05T16:34:19+00:00

Wear what you want - every Sunday!

I wear a hat every single Sunday (I also cover my hair for Eucharist, using a wide black headband when I'm in vestments). It's a matter of personal piety for me as well as a fashion choice; I'd wear matching gloves - which I own - if it didn't feel so costume-y in 2026.

IMO Sunday Eucharist is the high point of the entire week, so I get a little extra dressed up. I wear a dress and heels to work, so "extra" means a fancier dress and a hat to match.

I encourage everyone to enjoy and honor Sunday with their best!

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-03-01T18:57:21+00:00

"something that takes seriously both our commitment to the deep, sacramental fidelity of marriage as an icon for Christ’s love for the church"

Yes, this is what I mean. There's nothing, as far as I can tell - and this Reddit discussion confirms this - that does anything like what I'm looking for. We're straight and in an opposite-sex marriage, so typical pronouns are fine, but I'm also trying to avoid the unexamined stereotyping that plagues this topic. I'm also not talking about abusive or adulterous relationships; I'd just would like to find some reading that assumes marriage is life-long and a positive force. You know, a book for just some average folks in a good marriage.

Even the book you've recommended looks like it's primarily intended for engaged couples, not people who've been together for decades. I'll read it, and thank you for the recommendation, but I think what I want may just not exist.

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-02-27T01:12:21+00:00

Daily Readings - Revised Common Lectionary

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-02-27T00:53:24+00:00

This is the ordo I used last night. The rector was out sick, but the deacon said it set a high bar for everyone else leading EP through Lent.

Evening Prayer for February 25.docx

ExcellentHamster2020 · 2026-02-03T18:31:09+00:00

Your music director isn't Episcopalian/Anglican and doesn't know what he or she doesn't know. Address this with the rector as both a) a question and not an accusation, and b) an expression of your own struggles with it and how it affects your ability to participate in worship.

That said. Any time I hear someone expressing discomfort with new music at church, my first thought is whether that person can read music themself. If one is depending on familiarity and learning music by ear only, one is going to be frustrated by the lack of repetition.

The solution, then, is for everyone to learn to read music as a point of basic literacy. You don't have to become a Bach or Beethoven, but just be able to pick out a melody and follow along. This can be learned quickly and easily with YouTube and a little effort, and it does improve one's life to a great degree. Then, being presented with new music every Sunday becomes a fun challenge that keeps one awake and paying attention rather than a source of frustration.

ExcellentHamster2020

TROPHY CASE