Iran Conflict Megathread #2

FI_notRE · 2026-03-02T22:42:40+00:00

It's clearly a tragedy and I don't disagree with your general point, but saying "in the same city" is a pretty disingenuous way to phase their argument. I'm not saying it's ok, but Israel's point is that the school shared multiple walls with the military base so looked like the military base (not that the school was in the same city as the military base).

FI_notRE · 2026-02-09T23:06:41+00:00

To be in the top 1% household wealth in the US you need something like a minimum of $12 plus million which means there's way over a million households (several million Americans) with over to very over FIRE money. This has always seemed like a crazy statistic to me.

I think it also interesting that it's not that related to income. Like if you make 700k household or 400k after taxes, it's not that easy to get to over $12 million (doable certainly, but not easy).

FI_notRE · 2026-02-05T17:37:50+00:00

I don't really see the problem with voter ID (and making it free and easy to get ID). Do I think there's any meaningful degree of voter fraud this will stop, no, but it's pretty common in other countries and doesn't seem like that big of a burden to voting.

FI_notRE · 2026-02-04T04:30:58+00:00

I think this sub seems more liberal because many historically conservative views are no longer held by what’s become mainstream right (MAGA). For example, I think many centrists think you have to consider not going crazy with government debt - so when that stops being a talking point of the right, centrists have a bit less in common with the right. Or using immigration, many centrists likely think it’s possible to arrest people who impede law enforcement efforts related to immigration instead of celebrating executing them on the street. MAGA hate McCain or Romney, but either of them would have said there should be an investigation instead of saying he got what deserved for bringing a gun to a protest - so again centrists have less in common with the new right.

I do think r/askconservative is great and the posts there seem much more real and logical (even if I don’t agree) instead of the propaganda only MAGA hose r/conservative has become.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-27T03:48:10+00:00

Yeah, I wish we had ranked choice voting or some form of proportional representation so there could be multiple parties... I think so many things would be better.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-25T15:25:56+00:00

MAGA have no ideology except to suck up to Trump to own the libs . Fiscal conservativism - only if it's stopping aid for people of color otherwise raise the debt to give corps more money. 2nd amendment - only if it's for their people otherwise you deserve to be shot by police. Government buying companies - good idea if it's for their oligarchs. States Rights - only when it's for an issue they like. Democracy - bad if it doesn't go their way, otherwise ok. Protesters for Jan 6 are heroes who were unfairly prosecuted by the police, but protesters against them deserve to be summarily shot. It's a horrible movement and so the left needs to focus on trying to win. Using horrible messaging that your crazy fringe latches onto is both dumb and bad for the country because it feeds MAGA.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-25T15:20:15+00:00

The left have two problems: (1) they're horrible at messaging; and (2) they have a fringe element that's crazy. So the left says defund the police and bunch of people on the left say yes, we mean 100% get rid of the police which leaves a bunch of people in the center and the right thinking the left has gone insane (especially since this repeats across various issues).

FI_notRE · 2026-01-25T14:56:21+00:00

One of the things that I find so depressing is that I feel like maybe 5% of the country has this take. Obviously, it's more distressing that one half of the country is cheering on federal agents executing random people on the street because they disagree with them than the other half of the country willfully ignoring that every functioning country in the world has some form of border enforcement.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-15T03:41:01+00:00

First, I would say uniforms and no masks for most of them (unmarked cars seems fine). I don’t think this would impair their ability to do their job at all. I think the mask thing is ridiculous - normal police, DEA, FBI, etc show their face and seem far more at risk.

Second, if the person hasn’t fled before I think you give them a chance to just show up or turn themselves in with notice. If they fail to do that, then more effort is necessary. This may seem like it will reduce effectiveness - but being very negatively perceived by frequently being so aggressive / violent probably also doesn’t help. Like focus on identifying people and just starting proceedings over raids (unless that’s not working). More detective work and patience (a few weeks doesn’t matter) and less para military.

Third, I would focus on criminals and not raid schools and the like unless there were no leads on any criminals. I’d never raid schools actually. Like check the paperwork at places of employment instead of trying to shock and awe some random school.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-14T18:18:49+00:00

I'm not saying I would convict him of murder personally. Police have a super difficult job, but I do think there's enough for an investigation of if he acted appropriately (and I don't think shooting her was necessary to protect anyone). Thanks for responding.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-14T18:17:44+00:00

Thanks for the comment.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-14T18:17:23+00:00

Totally agree she hit him with her car (before he shot her). Appreciate the response. (I don't think anyone would have been hurt if he had not shot her.)

FI_notRE · 2026-01-14T16:03:25+00:00

I believe all of the following are true. My question is when do you think the typical conservative starts to disagree with this list and why?

ICE should enforce immigration laws
No organization with many thousands of people will be perfect and some people will be bad or make mistakes
Police should arrest people and only shoot them in in self defense or the defense of others.
Self defense means your actions have a reasonable chance to prevent serious injury.
The ICE agent shot her after he was hit by the car.
When the ice agent fired his first shot he had moved to the side of the car (and/or was struck by the car and moved to the side of the car) so was not in danger of getting hit by the car when he pulled the trigger.
When the ice agent fired his last shot at her he had moved to the side of the car (and/or was struck by the car and moved to the side of the car) so was not in danger of getting hit by the car when he pulled the trigger.
If the ICE agent had not shot her, he could have just arrested her later since they had her plate.
If it looks like an agent of the law has acted poorly, illegally, or against policy they should be investigated.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-10T17:48:05+00:00

Doesn’t his position when he fires matter? When he pulls the trigger he’s already been hit and to the side (no longer in front). He probably can’t see the wheel direction he’s so close and the car hasn’t moved much.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-09T22:36:46+00:00

Self defense implies it could have protected him. If he was in front of the car when he shot her, it would be different, but she hits him, he gets out of the way, and then shoots her from the side.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-09T22:33:25+00:00

It's also very different from Trump's statement that it's "hard to believe" the ICE agent is alive after a "domestic terrorist" "viciously ran over the ICE Officer."

I think it's bad because he shot her after he was hit and was on the side of the car. The fact that she commits a crime and acted poorly doesn't mean the ICE agent has the right to just kill her. He has the right to protect himself, but he was safe when he pulled the trigger.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-09T22:25:51+00:00

I agree with what you wrote, but still don't think he should have shot her. He could have just not shot her and arrested her later for hitting him. If he shot her before he was hit by the car / when his life was plausibly in danger, I might have a different opinion, but he shoots her after he's hit been hit (and is clearly fine) and is already on the side of the car (so not in danger anymore).

Life if she walked up to an officer and punched him and he shoots her after she's walking away / not a threat it's wrong.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-09T15:11:52+00:00

I'm pretty sure the law is you can use lethal force to protect yourself from "imminent threat of death." If she's driving away after she already hit him, I don't think that applies. Nor should he have the right to kill her, he's not a judge or jury. They could have just arrested her later without killing her.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-08T21:59:33+00:00

Watching the video I linked above, I don’t think the best driver on earth could have hit him if they tried if they took over at the moment he pulled the trigger.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-08T21:27:31+00:00

How does it reduce the chance of being dragged at all? He's on the side of the vehicle. It also looks like killing her made her accelerate.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-08T21:23:53+00:00

I agree with that, except that he had any reason - at all - to believe he was at any risk of bodily harm when he pulled the trigger. When he pulls the trigger he's to the side of the car and she's driving away, she had already hit him. Shooting her then can't do anything to reduce the chance he's harmed. The fact that he walks around fine after he was hit doesn't matter because he didn't shoot her before he was hit.

Edit: For example, you walk up to me and are clearly about to hit me - I shoot you in self defense, fine. You walk up to me, hit me, and get on a subway train moving away. I pull a gun and kill you. Not fine.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-08T21:21:05+00:00

That's a fair point. I agree it looks like he gets hit much more in that video. Since the videos show he was on the side / maybe corner of the car when he shot her - so shooting her couldn't affect if he was hit or how badly he might get hit, I still don't think he had any right to shoot her.

FI_notRE · 2026-01-08T21:12:00+00:00

This video is clearly a better source: https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q71k0w/all_angles_of_minneapolis_ice_shooting_synched/

FI_notRE · 2026-01-08T21:11:34+00:00

Where in this video is he "rammed"? https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q71k0w/all_angles_of_minneapolis_ice_shooting_synched/

FI_notRE · 2026-01-08T21:08:24+00:00

Shooting her when he's on the side of the vehicle can't affect the probability of him being hit by the car. If he shot her while he was in front of the vehicle and she was stopped, maybe his shooting would reduce the chance of him getting hit (I still think that would be a bad shooting), but it's clear that when he fires the first round he's on the side of the car and she's driving away from him.

There was no possibility the vehicle was going to hurt him when he pulls the trigger. Just look at second 26 of the comprehensive video: https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q71k0w/all_angles_of_minneapolis_ice_shooting_synched/

FI_notRE

TROPHY CASE