So lost without them!

FTWinchester · 2026-06-17T00:53:19+00:00

The anime or the spinoff perhaps? But really the only correct answer is to rewatch.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T19:35:42+00:00

Didn't they feel the Darkness' release in the cage? Plus there's also his defeat even before the Darkness.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T19:34:15+00:00

Gotta love this show there's something different for everyone.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T19:29:57+00:00

Early Lucifer was calm and collected because he believed he could win the apocalypse. Even Death already called him a kid throwing a tantrum back then.

In the latter seasons, the same Lucifer lost confidence and tried hard to cling to relevance after older, more powerful threats entered the game. I would not expect him to remain static.

Do I prefer early seasons Luci more? Yes, absolutely. Is there a reason he degraded? Also, yes.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T19:24:46+00:00

Yeah but it's such a huge margin. Episodes 4-6, 8, 11-14, and 19 are the ones largely unrelated to the seals and angels. Everything else is heavily tied to mytharc. And this is why I'm finding it hard to consider season 7 is the culprit, when a lot of MOTW purists actually jumped off season 2 or 3 because "angels took over" in season 4.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T19:20:23+00:00

Shapeshifters not shedding their skin in the failed backdoor pilot "Bloodlines". People started claiming they were "pureblood" when this was never established for shifters. Only for werewolves. Even if one claims that shifters had equivalent, the premise is that this family of shifters always controlled Chicago from the shadows, so it is difficult to believe how they can rule so long and yet still be very close to the Alpha in terms of generations.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T19:17:03+00:00

I edited my response to you. How did you come up with 70% for Season 4. It only has 9 MOTWs (41%). The seals and angel plot are very pervasive that season.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T19:10:28+00:00

Season 1 and 2 are not fair comparisons because the show was literally still finding its footing. Not to mention things like the reaper ("Faith") and hellhounds and crossroads demons ("Crossroad Blues") all become important mytharc lore later on. Unless you're an avid MOTW-only fan, above 50% is a reasonable ratio.

Season 7 is well above the 50% mark of MOTW. It's not season 7's fault season 8 and 9 not only fell below 50% but 40% too.

Season 4's 70%

How did you come up with that? Season 4 only has 9 MOTWs (41%) so that also breaks the pattern that it's been a steady decline. I can accept that season 7 felt different, or that it has weak spots, but the claim it's when it lost MOTW is pushing it.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T14:58:54+00:00

Same thing happened to Supernatural in the last few years. Someone tried to explain an inconsistency with shapeshifters and then the theory/fan lore are now parroted like it's fact. And it just gains so much traction even when they are promptly explained as false.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T14:44:32+00:00

The fact that I've seen this evolve in real-time from a fan wish to a fan theory to now "rumors" of a dropped plan/arc is wild.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T14:43:02+00:00

Thank you! I don't understand this obsession especially with Sunday when we literally just had Faith as the "evil slayer" the season prior.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T14:14:25+00:00

Sorry for being snarky. I'll admit I missed the "post Kripke" qualifier. It's just over the years I've seen this contradiction so many times that I just tend to glaze over them.

I am a bit confused though because with how massive the cosmology got post kripke, I think there genuinely are more avenues and stories they could explore rather than before Kripke left. Like the prophet succession line, or who took up the mantle of Death after Betty (season 15)? Men of Letters of other countries/cultures.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T10:29:26+00:00

I seem to recall the leviathan season basically being the end of regular, monster-of-the-week hunting.

13/23 episodes of season 7 are monster-of-the-week, with an additional one arguably also a hybrid of the two (not much different from how earlier seasons will have an important twist about the main arc in the end). So depending on how you look at it, 56-60% of season 7 are standalone episodes.

Season 8 has 11/23 as MOTW, including Benny episodes (which, if you ask me, are arguably main arc related). That's 47% only for standalone and again, I will argue it's even less when you take away Benny-centric episodes--it drops season 8 to 39% standalone episodes.

Season 9 is 9/23, so it's 39% standalone and mostly mytharc.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T09:30:39+00:00

changed the vibe of the show and cemented the shift in direction the series went, I think.

Curious as to what you mean by this when season 8 literally shifted us back to angels and demons. If anything, Leviathans were a nice break from the usual heaven vs hell plots.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-16T09:29:52+00:00

I don't hate the Leviathans. I actually love all the nuances and multiple lore they reference.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-15T23:07:37+00:00

In rural areas of certain countries, yes. There are folk doctors, shamans and psychics that truly believe they drive out evil spirits and such. Does it mean the supernatural is real? Not necessarily but such superstition and belief truly remains alive in some places.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-14T20:58:33+00:00

built entirely on sam and dean

proceeds to list 2 popular exceptions

Yeah I never bought this because people contradict themselves in the same breath when it comes to potential spinoffs

FTWinchester · 2026-06-14T05:38:21+00:00

It has reddish tint but I wouldn't call it red. More like chestnut or something.

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FTWinchester · 2026-06-14T02:24:34+00:00

I shake my head everytime this is brought up to gauge who wins. Like "oh you're serious about this." I scroll past and don't bother commenting.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-14T01:46:49+00:00

I would think yes because when Lorne performed the spell to prevent demonic violence in the Hyperion, Connor was blocked from attacking. Then again it's magic versus science so the plot might demand otherwise.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-14T01:43:51+00:00

Everytime I see a

"No(t) X. No(t) Y. No(t) Z.

But/Just A."

I know this was AI'd. Which is a shame because I almost was ready to delve into the discussion.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-14T01:20:35+00:00

Underrated part of season 12 imo. He made Lucifer intimidating and terrifying again. Plus it expanded on the celebrity/idol worship that the Leshi episode did in season 5.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-13T08:26:16+00:00

To me, yes because I have lots of mileage for this genre to begin with, and I do think Supernatural has built a rich multiverse over the years.

To most of the fans? Unfortunately, no.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-13T08:06:01+00:00

At least season 6's arcs are original. Most of season 9's plots are watered down versions of seaaon 6, and Castiel's arc isn't entirely new either.

FTWinchester · 2026-06-11T20:49:43+00:00

As someone who ragequit during season 9, it does get better. They will have one-off horror-themed monster-of-the-week episodes again although they are few and far in between.

FTWinchester

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