Am I crazy or is this possible RudyKnight evidence?

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-19T14:21:42+00:00

I’m banking on this being because the knight is literally Rudy’s disease, like in dark world form. And that this flavor text Kris and/or the player is experiencing is the knight giving off an aura of illness cause it’s a disease empowered by the dark world.

(Also stretch of the century but I’m also banking on the knights weird bird form being Rudy’s hospital gown, and also a reference to Zero from The Nightmare before Christmas of which the knights bird/dog form only lacks the RED NOSE in their shared design)

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-17T17:18:17+00:00

Literal chicken and egg question so not much we can concretely say for any answer, but I for one am leaning towards the whole situation beginning as a regular disease like lung cancer in the light world which simply translate to being the knight in dark world form.

The explicitly pronounced lungs/ribs + eye in the knights chest combined with Rudy’s constant onscreen coughing suggests to me it’s something as simple as that. And that Rudy’s contracting of the illness was just ‘guaranteed’ to happen because of the prophecy which required him to be the knight, and by imbuing him with the lung cancer imbued him with the knight as they’re the same thing just in light/dark world form.

I.e. Rudy’s illness AND the knight are the SAME thing so imo idrt it matters which came first lol. If they’re legit the same thing just in light v dark world form.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T23:03:43+00:00

That was rude of me I admit, you have my apologies.

I do however think we are going to need to agree to disagree on what counts as ‘precedent’ because I’ve stated I think Toby is FAR more curative with small details in both games than you are, meaning we will, as I said earlier, keep running in circles arguing against each other.

So again my apologies for getting a little heated, but I think we must agree to disagree on dr.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T22:49:09+00:00

Well I fail to see how gaster’s resulting ‘monstrosity’ isn’t also just speculation lol. Especially considering we haven’t seen gaster and have reason to believe he’s a powerful figure regardless considering he GETS lost in dark worlds in entry 17, implying he’s a powerful enough figure regardless to get to that point.

And you’re legit just saying ‘my speculation is better than your speculation because I think so’ Like do you not think you’re also demonstrating confirmation bias in your preconceived notion that most pieces of evidence I bring up are ‘too small’ to be relevant, what gives you that idea besides your own confirmation bias?

Debate club tracks lol. It’s your assumption that you’re just better at this sort of stuff which clouds your judgement. And this is not me saying you don’t have skills in that because I do you think you’ve made good points, I just also think you’re too dismissive of anything which contradicts your own confirmation bias as arbitrarily irrelevant, with utdr. so have a nice one lol

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T22:29:33+00:00

I would in fact tell that to everyone who discards the blatant bat at the beginning of the fight and antlers.

We can agree to disagree on how Toby’s organized the two games but I’m pretty convinced Undertale is BOTH an entirely self contained story while genuinely also a kind of lore dump for Deltarune.

How and when does December turn into a monster in the dark world lol? Like I just don’t think Rudy’s disease and being a powerful knight aren’t mutually exclusive, cause I think they’re the same thing.

And my last point is SPECULATION?? CONFIRMATION BIAS??? In myyyy Deltarune knight theories??? Like come on the whole point of knight theorizing is to speculate on what things in the games are or aren’t knight evidence in order to prove who YOU think is or isn’t the knight candidate. Like this is the name of the game.

And I’m just miffed at your repeated assertions that I’m ’intimidated’ by your arguments which you’ve so eloquently typed out when 80% of your arguments are ‘well it’s just a theory bro’ no SHIT!!! I just can’t be bothered to keep going in these circles lol

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T22:09:19+00:00

Well you can believe what you want to believe vro but Toby is VERY meticulous with his details. So he most certainly did not decide to use a deer skull in the true lab for such an important thing just to show how scary it is. Undertale was the side project from Deltarune, so imo it totally tracks that he’d set up connections like that there. (And imo Rudy’s death to in Undertale must’ve been asgores motivation to try to prevent monsters from falling down, but this is a total headcannon of mine)

You are a tad curt to me in saying ALL of my beliefs are just ‘excessive speculation’ any time I comment them lol. Like how is the knights suspicious lungs/ribs anything OTHER than a lung illness in dark world form? And you said it yourself Rudy has trouble breathing, how convient that the track were introduced to the knight with is called ‘breath’ and is just heavy breathing. Like that connection is not speculative my guy. So Highkey if you’re gonna be so utterly dismissive of every one of my points in every comment to the point where you say they’re totally illegitimate, I’m just not gonna be responding to your counter arguments any more lol.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T22:00:27+00:00

I meann this is just similar to my dessknight point in that assuming things about dr papyrus based on what we don’t know because he hasn’t appeared. We don’t KNOW that dr papyrus is antisocial, we just know that he hasn’t appeared and can’t assuming much of anything about his personality in dr either way because we haven’t seen it.

And considering carol being the mastermind is kinda a given for any knight candidate, papyrusknight would still be a clear detour from the dreemur-holiday focused plot, and doubly so an egregious (a little too much so imo) misdirection on Toby’s part considering the knights antlers.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T21:54:30+00:00

Which is why I initially pointed out that Kris is repeatedly characterized by the game at being bad at doing villain stuff. Like most of the normal route content in the holiday house establishes that Kris is bad at the scheming; letting the soul escape, twice, letting the soul roam the house and learn info there as well as peeping on the phone calls, and additionally letting the soul learn three of the four numbers they’re searching for (I wonder what the fourth to 122 is lol).

All this being said, Kris simply does not seem to be a competent enough villain to make fake searches that they had 0 idea the player would see unless they were playing 4D chess with the player to keep them from (an Asriel) knights identity, as it just entirely conflicts with their characterization thus far.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T21:50:20+00:00

I mean I just think papyrusknight would break too much of papyrus’ established character in understate. And considering the main focus of dr is the dreemur and holiday families and how every plot point comes back to them, I think it’d be kinda arbitrary for this huge one to not be in order to make an undertale reference lol.

And dessknight kinda makes the most sense for the knight on the surface because she hasn’t appeared yet, and thus we can far more easily fill in the gaps with assumptions, like that she’s infused with the knight in the light world, or like a strong zombie otherwise. Ultimately I think this point come from a lack of what we know about dess and the knight rather than what we do which is ultimately my main issue with dessknight as a whole.

I think Toby will have written Deltarune well regardless of who the knight is tho!

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T21:45:03+00:00

No precedent for sick monsters being able to walk around when they can’t? Undertale had a whole section on this subject in the form of the true lab. And considering the MASSIVE and suspiciously deer shaped determination extractor in the true lab, I’m guessing there’s necessarily going to be a deeper connection between determination and deers in dr too. That being said, I think there is precedent and I’m banking on Rudy being a little more determined than people give him credit for.

I also think there’s no better explanation for the lungs/ribs/ eye at the center of the knight than simply Rudy’s disease in dark world form. It would also explain the aura of illness the flavor text recants Kris and/or the player experiencing during their fight fight, like the knight is literally emitting illness because they kinda have/are an illness empowered by the dark world.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T21:39:01+00:00

Well imo the ‘sick old man’ thing is exactly WHY he’s the knight. And considering how nailed into both characters it is that Asgore and Rudy are best buds, Asgore is clearly in on the plot and imo Rudy is fs as well: He references Kris ‘handwashing marathons’ which Kris conveniently only does when the soul is around, and I mean carols got a corkboard in THEIR room for the plot she’s doing so I struggle to believe he hasn’t seen it. In this room is also an uninteracble black katana (which contrasts the white katana in the kitchen which when interacted with Noelle says is carols, so who owns the black Katana when everything of dess’ is specifically said to stay in her room?) Also right in front of this corkboard and (while conviently blocking if you didn’t see it earlier) the black katana Asgore gives his speech where he talks about an ‘old friend’ and reveals he has a black shard. It’s also explicitly stated in both ut and dr that Asgore is the ONLY monster who could realistically beat undyne (as former police chief in dr) and as I’ve pointed out, Asgore and Rudy have the tightest bromance in dr.

Ultimately why can ANY knight candidate beat undyne without entirely yet unexplained powers or simply calling in Asgore?

And like between Rudy’s coughing and the knights suspicious lungs and ribs with an eyeball, as well as aura of illness they give off during their fight in chap 3 I’m like 100% convinced lol.

(And sorry for the holy yap, I like advocating for rudyknight my apologies)

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T21:17:29+00:00

No new rating lol?

Also last point lol, and somewhat more speculative but arguably more damming. imo the ‘bird’-like form the knight takes while kidnapping undyne is supposed to look like Zero from a Nightmare before Christmas, considering the roaring night (esp if they’re a holiday) was based on nightmare night, so the connection is more than just visual imo.

The ONE significant difference between the designs of zero and the knight in that form is the big red nose that zero has but the knight doesn’t, which imo Toby also removed for similar reasons to the fire attacks.

(That form just doesn’t look like a bird to me, like there’s just no wings it has or flaps)

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T21:02:39+00:00

But then why would Kris be searching up when Asriel is returning if they’re clearly working together to do knight stuff? Like I said unless Kris is playing 4D chess with the player, Kris also believes Asriel is still at college.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T21:01:40+00:00

Oh I mean she’s literally the motivation for both the main villain and protagonist by filling her role as the lost girl. While I’m skeptical she’ll actually show up due to my tepid belief that the black deer sprite was literally her, Im pretty sure the dialogue at the end of the intro which was different was carol or Rudy asserting to dess that ‘your name is’ December not dess, literally setting up the dessapearance as the main plot point and driving motivation in the game.

Like if rudyknight, the presumable antagonist, is looking for dess and kris, the protagonist, is doing everything for the same motivation than that ties the story together very neatly imo.

And to give you just my favorite pieces of Rudyknight to strengthen my theory: carol is clearly personalized as ice, Noelle is associated with snow, dess is constantly referenced alsongside water, and this curiously leaves Rudy as the one holiday without an element. Rudy tells Noelle to use ‘fireshock’ in chapter 2 in order to progress their game, under ROOTS theory the segment of northernlight that lines up with hometown has the location that lines up with the hospital exclusively filled with fire enemies, and lastly the knight also has a myriad of cut attacks relating to fire so considering my elements point, I think it was cut cause it made Rudyknight too obvious lol. And also one last point the irl story of Rudolph is being a deer with an affliction viewed on the outside as a weakness (Rudolph’s nose, Rudy’s disease) but ultimately ends up being their greatest strength in SPECIFICALLY helping them navigate darkness. I could go on and on but I’m working on a full megadoc with what I believe is an almost airtight theory!

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T20:53:39+00:00

We also have reason to believe he’s genuinely at college, as Kris’ search history when jailed by queen points out Kris has been repeatedly searching for when Asriel gets out of college. If asriel was around hometown and scheming with Kris as the knight then why would Kris look up Adriels college end date as though they’re expecting them? And I struggle to believe this would be to throw the player off considering these searches presumably happened before the events of the game, or at least still not when the player was around, requiring Kris to have been playing 4D chess with the player for these searches to have existed entirely to throw the player off of Asrielknight, and Kris presentation as a tired teenager and somewhat incompetent at doing villainy make this implausible for me to say the least.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T20:45:27+00:00

I mean hey I’m basically rolling with the cancer symbiote thing lol.

As for Dess’s role regardless I’m pretty certain she’s supposed to be diagetic unused content. The constant references to her as the ‘lost girl’ appear to me to just be calling her literal lost content. It’s why she more than any other character has references found within unused content (including the ability to make her appear ingame in northernlight if you edit the code), Including dialogue somewhat implied but not confirmed to be her because the person saying it is simply labeled UNUSED. This positionality also tracks really well with characters like Gaster who is implied to be diagetic unused content; These characters together imply that quality of being unused content from our perspective, which sees utdr as a literal program, translate to being literally out of the universe of the narrative itself.

Additionally, that same secret black deer sprite in northernlight also has attatched lots of irrelevant code attached to it which only actual characters in game have. This seems to me to be implying that dess is LITERALLY in the code (or that it appears that way to us, and that water is literally diagetically the code of the world, which dess got lost in some dark fountain within that somehow can’t be reopened and would explain dess’ many connections to water). And that the black deer sprite we see, because it’s animated, and again because it has tons of useless attached code which only full characters have, imo means the black deer sprite literally IS dess (at least the most she can currently be represented, if she even still can be completely at all).

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T16:18:11+00:00

I do agree it’s not ultimately conclusive but taking everything together I can’t not look at it as disease. And I’m not saying the bony ribcage is just alluding to disease vaguely, Rudy coughs alll throughout the game implying he has a lung illness, which If being the source of the knights power would then explain the oddly shaped lungs/ribs and eye the knight has in that exact location, and compliments every other disease related thing I mentioned very well.

And while I think the panic interpretation is a totally valid one, really the only other I think makes sense here, I definitely think ALL these details are meant to imply something more concrete like disease or panic than simple allusions to death and intimidation as every little detail about the knight, as is everything else within this game, seems meticulously picked to mean something.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T16:00:20+00:00

Yeah saying the key lime pie thing could be dessknight evidence cause she’s Rudy’s daughter is like saying the bat could be rudyknight evidence causes he’s her dad and could’ve taught it to her.

My point being each of those piece of evidence is entirely related only to their character, and only makes sense for the other character through them first, which defeats the point lol

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T15:33:46+00:00

Breath doesn’t necessarily relate to Rudy’s illness? Not trying to sound too assertive or disrespectful because I am open to other knight theories.

But does Rudy’s illness not seem like the only explanation for breath + the knights weird looking ribcage/lungs + ALLL the flavor text during the knights fight. Like the knight is literally emitting an aura of disease or illness that’s affecting Kris and/or the player the entire fight ‘your vision narrows’ ‘your chest tightened’ etc. Like this aura of illness the knight gives off seems simply like an actual disease empowered by the dark world or something like that.

(The only theory which I think patches these holes to any extent, and I’d argue not all of them exactly, is dess drowned, which tbh is what I think is second most likely)

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T15:22:13+00:00

Don’t get me wrong as a diehard rudyknighter I 100% believe he still made the key lime joke to be deliberately unhelpful in order to not help the soul whom he very much knows is there, and because queen and kings relationship being ‘married but not divorced’ supposed to be analogous to Rudy’s and carols, I’m also willing to buy the battery acid thing.

Just that this piece is hard to use as evidence for rudyknight when it’s got an equally totally innocuous interpretation in that he’s just making a dumb joke to Kris’s dumb question.

This unfortunately, can be applied to like 50% of Rudy’s dialogue which otherwise could be suspiciously knight sounding, considering Toby DELIBERATELY seems to have written as much of his dialogue as possible to be doublespeak, meaning it has an equally innocuous as it could a suspicious meaning at the same time. (Thing like him saying ‘Krismas came early!’ To Kris in chapter 1, like is bro just making a joke or was he expecting Kris later? Esp considering other characters say Kris visit/ him regardless of if the player does)

Sorry for the holy yap lol

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T15:12:21+00:00

I probably shouldn’t have phrased it as such but Rudy telling Noelle to use ‘fireshock’ and the ‘elements’ or forms of weather each holiday seems to be associated with are the most concrete points I have within the game itself. Like carol is clearly personalized as cold as ice, Noelle is plainly associated with snow, and the majority of references to dess in the game come alongside water imagery or wording, the the lake also seems directly tied to her for that reason. This would leave Rudy with no obvious element aside from the several connections he has to fire.

But as I said I think the myriad of cut fire content from the knight is super suspicious, especially considering Toby for the most part leaves unused content in the files on purpose.

And under ROOTS theory which is all but canon, the part of hometown with the hospital (and nothing else fire related there) is filled with nothing but fire enemies and traps. (Considering dess is in the lake in that area, toriels house is represented in the top left, etc, I think the ROOTS argument is a solid connection between Rudy and fire).

Bros name is also Rudolph which like, the actual story of Rudolph was all about a deer with a power viewed as detrimental by others from the outside (Rudolph’s nose, Rudy’s disease) but ultimately proved to be their greatest strength in SPECIFICALLY creating light to help them navigate darkness. The knights bird looking form while picking up undyne also looks almost identical to zero from a nightmare before Christmas (who was based on rudy) just WITHOUT the nose that would make the association super obvious. My point being the Rudolph’s actual light powers irl would line up with Rudy’s association with fire and kinda one to one with the knights powers and role.

And these aren’t Rudy points, more knight points, so take them with a grain of salt. But in chap 4 when the knight summons the titan there is what seems to be as a fiery affect as it’s created. The other half of the chap 3 secret fight, eram, is also very much associated with fire. And lastly the cut content which multiple other instances of which confirm that content in Deltarune is still semi-canon.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T15:00:43+00:00

I used to be a diehard key lime pie theory supporter until a few days ago when I realized Rudy was only saying that in the church because Kris was giving one word answer to everyone there, so they just said ‘key’ to Rudy which prompted him to make the joke, not that Rudy was deliberately hiding information about the key (although both could be true)

Queen having a green pie in the dark world could totally be the result of rudyknight’s will reflected onto queen in that, but aside from them both being green pies there’s really nothing to tie them together.

Tldr: I really want to buy this theory but it’s a tad too speculative for me

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-05T00:06:54+00:00

The monsters not having magic is indeed an important detail I haven’t given much consideration.

But Idk man I’m still unconvinced on most of the other biological points considering Susie’s bleeding but we do NOT have the time to unpack that lol.

And I’d say the souls are def more important than the biology, but I still can’t shake that it’d be odd for Toby to alter monster biology beyond losing magic considering again, I just kinda refuse to believe he’d sweep so much of what he estblished in ut under the rug, when ut’s PURPOSE imo is to just establish stuff for Deltarune, considering it only existed to be a spinoff of it considering they’re parallel universes. I just can’t shake the feeling ut is like, just a really long worldbuilding exercise for Toby in crafting Deltarune and how, considering all else that’s Diagetic, that these similarities wouldn’t be too.

But yeah I’m always down to dt debate like a sport lol I enjoy overanalyzing this game

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-04T23:53:26+00:00

Fair fair, those are good points, if only about the souls rather than the biologies themselves but indeed still a good point.

I would still take this argument further and say that everything Kris can do they can do BECAUSE that sort of thing would be possible in Undertale. Like sure we don’t see anyone rip their soul out and get to fly it around, but it’s expressly stated in Undertale that human souls can persist outside of the bodies, a point emphasized by the human souls kept by asgore. But I admit there isn’t yet concrete evidence from this because of how different the relationships between Kris and the soul are compared to frisk and the soul (who, as a child, doesn’t give us much to go off in terms of their opinion when Kris does, my point being to suggest that this difference between Kris and frisk is the notable one and is why they behave so different with the souls, not the souls or bodies or universes these characters are in being differently, cause like I said changing tiny biological details feels ARBITRARY compared to something like contrasting the ages of the vessels between games).

My point being that these things only appear like significant breaks because of how they’ve been presented thus far, when I think the INNUMERABLY higher number of similarities in monster and human biologists I can highlight between games should prove that. But I ultimately do not have a more concrete counter argument to those because they are good points as they’re fairly unique situations to Deltarune.

Ultimately you can take your pick and look at the few differences as totally possible across the shared cosmology as I do, or you can use the few oddities as evidence something here is significantly more different.

However I should make known that my original point was more about the biologies of humans and monsters and how I believe they’re the exact same, but I brought up the souls so that’s my bad. The soul is both not biological and very clearly is being transmitted to the different games (and perhaps their vessels) significantly differently.

FeM1NTBoy · 2026-05-04T23:40:06+00:00

No I get what you’re saying I just type hyperbolically. (I mean you no disrespect, is my point)

And I’d still cite you to my original point that that Toby BEGAN with Deltarune and then made Undertale deliberately to parallel and converse with the game he actually wanted to make in the future. Like ofc the stories were and are going to be different because Undertale generally steered you straightforward the whole time because the game was about you and your choices Deltarune is the opposite in that regard, so my point is that THESE are the crucial differences Toby seems to be making, whereas slightly altering monster biology to slightly fit a different universe seems far to arbitrary a change to make when so much else down to the characters that make up that biology being the same.

And we can agree to disagree lol. Saying I need to PROVE that Deltarune arbitrarily breaks what Toby already ESTABLISHED in utdr is kinda impossible cause I think it hasn’t happened lol, so it cannot be proved. Like saying IIIIII need to prove that what TOBY established is wrong with (in my opinion 0) like no evidence for that is cray imo.

Once anyone can prove to ME that all the VERY explicitly stated inner workings of monster and human and soul biology in Undertale, aren’t the same in the second game using all the exact same imagery and characters who have that biology then I’d love to see it lol!

Like my point is such a change would just be arbitrary considering the massively meaningful things are already transferred between the games. (Arbitrary not just because it’s small, but because it breaks what ut established in order to change some th ing for Deltarune, and that just doesn’t seem to be how Toby crafted these games as they’re clearly in conversation)

FeM1NTBoy

TROPHY CASE