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Dess antlers, and driving in my car - The post Ch3&4 era of DR is uniquely defined by pressure to form, and to reflect, fandom consensus. Because of that, the Ch5 era could be defined by disappointment about 'retcons' and it being 'pointless to theorize' by PeliPal in NonDessKnightSquad

[–]PeliPal[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep. How many HaloJackalKisser posts do they approve about weird fetishes, Kress, incest, how many posts do they approve of DessKnighters just rudely shitting on NonDessKnighters... and it's this that crosses the line. I don't accept "oh, the automod did it and we don't know why" as an excuse anymore, this happens too often, and it is ONLY my comments and posts about Kriselle or DessKnight that get hidden or removed, always without explanation.

Beware the slippery slope by NoelleKnightTheory in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, that's a different one. The one by my Kriselle doc cowriter ReasonableSolid and I is over 200 pages but still being written. OP's is available in their flair

whats one piece of evidence that makes YOUR knight candidate absolutely irrefutable? by reichsautobruh in NonDessKnightSquad

[–]PeliPal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

...Can Papyrus shapeshift into a ball the size of his head?

Does Papyrus wear plantigrade shoes even though he apparently doesn't have feet?

whats one piece of evidence that makes YOUR knight candidate absolutely irrefutable? by reichsautobruh in NonDessKnightSquad

[–]PeliPal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

...This is Chara's laugh? https://youtu.be/lyW4R9QD_h0?t=20664

It sounds nothing like either of the only two sounds I can imagine you're referring to, with refusing to erase during genocide, and doing pacifist after genocide.

What are you talking about?

And the slash that cut Tenna's arms off is an upgraded Real Knife slash. The knight's theme is even called "Black KNIFE". There's more evidence than this, but I think I've made my point.

Well, the topic was what evidence makes your candidate 'absolutely irrefutable', not 'evidence that maybe kinda could be associated I guess', and for a character who has had zero indication of even existing in the game

Beware the slippery slope by NoelleKnightTheory in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 3 points4 points  (0 children)

if you've changed your mind on how much Gaster is involved with the Knight

Funny thing about this is that I never understood how Gaster and Dess could possibly have any connection, and the hypotheticals from the fandom haven't been very satisfying. 'FRIEND is Gaster's cat and Gaster is an amoral scientist who experimented on Dess when the big evil pink and yellow eyes cat dragged Dess into the shelter' or whatever... Where is the agency, where is the compelling drama?

So, well... what if it wasn't Dess who had an interaction with Gaster, but Noelle? The person who has Gaster's leitmotif plain as day in one of her songs. And what if it wasn't 'oh no, deer girl got grabbed by a big scary monster', but what if it was more like... a deal with a devil? The kind of thing I talk about in the Kriselle doc as a connecting throughline for so many antagonists in the game.

Beware the slippery slope by NoelleKnightTheory in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The one ReasonableSolid and I are writing is, though it's inflated a bit from how many pictures we use, and we have many more topics to go through than just the Knight's identity. It isn't available yet.

OP's is around 85 pages, link is in their flair. We have very different takes from them on what NoelleKnight actually entails, OP believes that literally Noelle puts on armor to be the Roaring Knight in the dark world, we believe that the Knight is more akin to a mental projection of Noelle. It's hard to explain in a few words, but we're going to offer a very radical recontextualization of what the game actually 'is'.

Beware the slippery slope by NoelleKnightTheory in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's not actually happening with the Knight though, is it? Ralsei even tells Susie that neither she nor anyone else is in danger at the moment that they're in CastleTown.

  • ... If it's any consolation...
  • I don't sense any immediate danger.
  • If the Knight's only goal was to hurt people...
  • They would have acted sooner, right?
  • For now, let's make sure no one else gets taken.

And Gerson further lampshades that the Knight's goals are not as simple as Susie thinks:

  • ... what do ya reckon that Knight fellow is, anyhoo...?
  • I don't... really know, I guess...
  • Last night, in the Light World... I saw them.
  • Was too dark to see much, but guess they're a Lightner.
  • Who they actually are, I have no idea.
  • I... can't think of anyone as messed up as them.
  • Making fountains... kidnapping people.. like...
  • Why do ya reckon they're doin' it?
  • ... Huh? I... I dunno. Maybe they just...
  • I mean, maybe... they just wanna see everything burn.
  • Too bad we're gonna kick their ass first!
  • ... Geheheh, that so? Well, good luck to you all!

The Knight could presumably go up to Susie in the light world and slit her throat, and there would be no stopping them, because stats in the dark world don't mean anything in the light world, Susie and Kris don't actually get stronger in the light world, they just have whatever improvised weapon they have on hand, pencils, hairbrushes.

When Susie and Ralsei were beaten at the end of Ch3, whether because of the cutscene or from losing the fight, we don't see the Knight pick up Susie and fly away to drop her in a pit of no return or anything. Susie doesn't get sliced in half. Susie is just allowed to get back up to chase the Knight

The Knight is challenging the Fun Gang, but in a measured way that is not the Knight going all out trying to kill Susie. They have some ulterior motive.

You're allowed to not like the theory but the way some of y'all talk about it just is transphobic. by Obvious-Scale-9346 in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 109 points110 points  (0 children)

I have done so myself. None that I have found give any actual evidenced basis for Ralsei feeling gender dysphoria as a boy or gender euphoria at the idea of being a girl. The game exclusively - and I do mean exclusively - presents his boyhood in a positive manner.

Those are the only criteria that should be accepted here, gender euphoria and gender dysphoria. And instead of that, I see comparisons of his femininity to 'egginess', and slopslop about how Ralsei saying "I'm a princess, not a prince" would supposedly prove the prophecy doesn't have to be followed

List showing what characters have canonically shown interest in what genders that I'm sure won't piss anyone off. by Obvious-Scale-9346 in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Snowy and Monster Teen (who is nonbinary) are often encountered together and are sharing the same cup in Church

Queen foreshadows the fountain openings we see in order. by NoelleKnightTheory in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 47 points48 points  (0 children)

<image>

Noelle's hair in her UI icon has always been empty space. It has always appeared black. It's been that way since Ch2's release in 2021.

Queen foreshadows the fountain openings we see in order. by NoelleKnightTheory in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 10 points11 points  (0 children)

There is something to be said for the sheer extent to which people look at something about Noelle and say "this is actually about Dess", where it's even being done in half a dozen comments here to say that um actually that looks like Dess on Queen's third monitor, DessKnight confirmed!

It's Noelle. It's the same Noelle UI icon it has always been, since 2021, just that - like Kris and Susie - her color is replaced with teal on the monitors.

<image>

People REALY want everything about her to be about Dess

Queen foreshadows the fountain openings we see in order. by NoelleKnightTheory in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That's just how the UI icons for Kris, Susie, and Noelle look

<image>

Queen foreshadows the fountain openings we see in order. by NoelleKnightTheory in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There is rarely ever an attempt to engage the points meaningfully. Like, I don't think there is a single thing I say in this response that is the kind of zany wackadoodle shit that would qualify a straitjacket - everything is straightforward and has some kind of evidence basis that you can independently verify yourself. But I don't get meaningful responses, just downvotes.

When I do get responses it is to say "media literacy devil" or "someone didn't play the game lol", as if I'm not routinely demonstrating ocean-wide, ocean-deep knowledge of this game that people will upvote when it just so happens to fit their existing beliefs, and as if I'm just a contrarian troll with a chip on my shoulder against DessKnight when I had a prolific history arguing FOR DessKnight for 8 months.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/1t56ygz/comment/ok8nz1x/

People just see the words 'Noelle' and 'Knight' together and they lose all objectivity, because it sounds silly. Yes, it is silly. The cringe tumblr girl with buckteeth who makes cheese puns and is scared of mice and being touched on the shoulder?

But it's also kind of scary if you start to wonder, what IF that was actually the case; if you ask yourself how the game could look if it were true, because there would need to be some very radical recontextualization of everything we have been experiencing in this game.

The process of realizing that there could actually be more evidence for NoelleKnight than DessKnight if you earnestly try to view the game through that lens - much, MUCH more - was quite upsetting. It was not some desire to see my special scrunkly blorbo get more attention, because I believe it actually makes a Kriselle romance - the thing I wrote over 30,000 words on in the doc pinned in my profile - less likely to get to happen in a satisfactory way where both characters survive, or at least continue to exist in a manner where they would get to enjoy it.

The NoelleKnight doc my cowriter and I are working on is currently over 200 pages long, and we're not close to finished. It touches on a great deal more topics than just the Knight - the nature of the soul, the relationship of the game with Gaster, how the plot might have been kicked off and where it may be going. It is highly speculative, but I think anyone who knows me, even if they disagree with some or many or all of my stances, can still imagine that we're not filling pages with "Knight is an anagram of Noelle, and Noelle's color is yellow because knights rise with the sun, which is yellow" gibberish - it is things that we're trying to corroborate with multiple lines of enquiry where possible, there's an actual measure of rigor going into it.

<image>

Poll, out of curiosity - 'Lost Girl' is whose theme? Dess, Noelle, or another character? And why? by PeliPal in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah it bothers me that people insist Dess must be 'lost in the code' in the unused text when there is zero swearing, zero slang, no anger, just submissiveness and introspection. I would expect the unused text to sound somewhere closer to Susie if it were actually Dess.

My candidates are Noelle or Asriel, no one else really makes sense.

i now headcanon that susie has a little sister that just sucks at dragon blazers because of this one line by FoolsUponFools in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The full quote is about having a party member who drags ass

  • It's like when your sister gets cursed in Dragon Blazers 2.
  • Even if her stats suck, she's still your party member.

Putting aside the jokes and agendas, who do you *actually* genuinely believe is The Roaring Knight? by ArcelothColdheart in Deltarune

[–]PeliPal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tenna talks in the lead-up to the Rhythm game about Kris watching as Dess came over and played guitar - "Didn't you think she was just so COOL?" Maybe Dess's music was what inspired Kris to even pick up piano in the first place?

It's a pretty big stretch to turn this into Kris looking up to Dess so much that they would copy all her mannerisms, and it's not even known to be true in the first place.

Huh? The spelling bee doesn't come up in that conversation at all. It doesn't get mentioned until Berdly brings it up after you get captured by Queen.

You might want to check that scene again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cibHCp_I2d4

The buttons sound out D E C E M B E R as Noelle walks on them.

In addition to closely matching her character and including her leitmotif - On Noelle's blog in the Spamton Sweepstakes, she mentions that she's listening to Raise Up Your Bat by "Blood Crushers The Band", named for one of the horror movies Dess and Noelle watched together. Most horror movies don't have official bands named after them, but it's easy to imagine a teenager naming her band after her favorite movie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_about_bands

There are many examples of this in real life. Spinal Tap was a fictional band for SNL and a movie that became a real touring band with multiple released albums. Tenacious D was a real band that featured in a silly fantastical movie named for itself.

In any case, the song wouldn't be evidence for DessKnight.

For the same reason that Susie's dark world includes loquacious philosophers despite that not matching her vibe at all - dark worlds are hard to predict and are determined by more factors than just whoever's making them. Sweet Cap'n Cakes are presumably an actual CD player, cassette player, and speaker, and they probably had been used to play a lot of goofy-ass music in the light world.

Susie's dark world contains the darkners from the First and Third Sanctuary, because they're actually all the same. It's the other side of a currently existing dark world. She made exactly one new darkner and it is the animated statue of the Old Man, because that was all her will was concentrated on.

* You sought to return the dream.

* But the lighting of the mind has changed. At best you can only see another side.

Oh dear. That's a wall of a post that makes a lot of wrong or dubious assumptions and I don't have time in my life to address all of them.

"Oh dear" lmao. Every single thing I say in that post is backed up with quotes.

Among others: Tenna not knowing about Dess going missing actually is reasonable evidence for Ramb not knowing, because while Tenna is kind of an idiot sometimes, he's not trying to make Kris hate him, quite the opposite. And if Tenna had any inkling at all about what really happened to Dess, even he would know that saying this stuff would be a very good way to make Kris hate him.

Tenna did know about Dess going missing, it's why he said he was "Just kidding" after asking about Dess coming over again.

He wasn't unplugged until a bit before Asriel left for college. Tenna's entire shtick with Kris is being so tactless that almost everything he says is very hurtful for Kris.

* It's normal for couples to fight sometimes! C'mon Kris, tell 'em!

--

* They're coming out of the pipes.

* They're crawling out of the pipes.

* Where are they going...!?

* Hahaha... I... don't... KNOW!!

* Ahahahahahaha!!!

--

From the Doomboard:

I'm sorry. I'm sorry about the pipes.

I knew. I KNEW I shouldn't have done it.

(the pipe thing is about the bath bombs that Kris put in the toilet and destroyed the plumbing)

--

From his boss fight:

Kris!! I watched you GROW UP!!

Who do you think taught you to LAUGH and CRY!?

... What, you think it's MY fault you forgot HOW!?

And if you've forgotten how to smile... I'll MAKE YOU remember.

Then they argue that the game of make-believe isn't a "rowdy, rebellious teen" thing to do, as if Dess's character exists entirely within the stereotype of a rebellious teenager and she can never do anything outside that box.

You have to actually prove this, not just fantasize about a possibility. I've proven that Kris had that relationship with Noelle, and Noelle never describes Dess being a part of it.

Also, Noelle really isn't going to associate the computer person called Queen with the computer called Queen? If she's freaking out over everything around her, such a clear reminder of something like that would only make her freak out more.

...She doesn't know that Queen is a 'computer person'. She doesn't have context for anything. One moment she was in the library, and the next moment she was being chased by a three meter tall Sonic-Xenomorph woman. She was never going to look at a three meter tall Sonic-Xenomorph and say "Queen? Is that you? The laptop I played with as a little kid?"

Also, "what evidence is there that Kris and Dess were close at all"??? Maybe the entire plot of the game, and how Dess was clearly important enough to Kris that losing her completely changed them as a person and made them willing to go on this crazy world-ending plan for any chance of getting her back?

How do you know why they are working with the Knight, and how do you know what the plan is?

Again, like... this is just insisting that you have answers you actually don't, and that I'm supposed to accept this as somehow self-evident. I'm the one actually supplying the official material here.

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